Once you eliminate the impossible...

kudzu said:
Scientists don't KNOW.. That's why the Big Bang Theory is a theory.

Does that mean they SHOULD believe bronze age mythology borrowed from Sumer and Egypt?
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The universe exists. That a fact. How did it get here? Scientists don't know. Would you at least admit the possibility of a Creator?
 
evince said:
A: without

theism: belief in God
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How can you be against something that does not exist......according to you? Without implies there is a WITH. You are against the WITH. How many times have you attempted to prove yourself correct and do nothing but prove you are wrong via presenting something that contradicts your own position? There is a scientific term for such: Lets see......what is it....oh yea, STUPID.
 
The Ugly Truth said:
The universe had a beginning.
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This thing we humans call "the universe"...may not be THE UNIVERSE. It is only the part we know about. Go back 100 years...and scientists did NOT KNOW that other galaxies existed. They thought "the universe" was our galaxy...the stuff we could see. We do not know if THE UNIVERSE had a beginning.


It's often referred to as the big bang.
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Most learned people refer to it as the Big Bang. And it refers to the (theoretical) start of the part of THE UNIVERSE that we puny humans on this nondescript planet circling a fairly common, unremarkable star know about at the moment. We humans may know as much about THE UNIVERSE as an ant in the backyard knows about our galaxy.


It is impossible for something to create itself.
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You are saying it is impossible...but it MAY BE POSSIBLE for something to create itself. But it also is possible that THE UNIVERSE was not created...by itself or by a god or by anything else.

IT MAY ALWAYS HAVE EXISTED.


You have yet to refute these facts.
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You are not offering FACTS...you are offering assertions.

Obviously many scientists disagree with you...or, people like Albert Einstein, Richard Feynman, and Stephen Hawking would not have been atheists and agnostics.

Open your mind. I have refuted your arguments...which are NOT facts.


All you have is maybe this, and perhaps that.
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That is what scientists and logicians do, Ugly...they suppose things...and they do not settle on an answer unless all the other things are shown to be impossible. Look at the title of your thread!

IT IS POSSIBLE THAT THE UNIVERSE ALWAYS EXISTED...AND ALWAYS WILL. IT IS POSSIBLE IT WAS NOT CREATED AT ALL.
 
The Ugly Truth said:
Gee. I thought you atheists believed in science. Science says it's impossible. Are you anti science?
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Science does not say it is impossible, Ugly.

Science does not say it is impossible that THE UNIVERSE always has existed.

You are simply asserting that without substantiation, because you want that to be the case.

Get off it. Get over yourself.
 
Ralph said:
That's like declaring that you are an "atheist".....no? When the term Atheist is latin for AGAINST THEISM or the divine......just how can you be against something that according to you DOES NOT EXIST? :laugh:
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I'm an agnostic...but that is NOT what atheism means. And it DOES NOT derive from the Latin...it derives from the Greek.

You do not know what you are talking about.

What all the idiot seculars are missing.........is the 800 lb Gorilla in the middle of the room. Truth can be established via the use of logic and deductive reasoning....i.e., people are sent to prison every day based upon these simple truths established by the PRIMA FACIE evidences introduced when no objective evidence could be presented to make null and void these truth's that come about by applying reason and logic.....prima facie truths that stand beyond the reason of any sane person to doubt otherwise....unless objective testable evidence proves these logical truths invalid.

Such evidence is used to conclude truth everyday in the court rooms across the Untied States and the world.
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Since you thought "atheism" was Latin...why even bother with this other nonsense.
 
Frank Apisa said:
Science does not say it is impossible, Ugly.

Science does not say it is impossible that THE UNIVERSE always has existed.

You are simply asserting that without substantiation, because you want that to be the case.

Get off it. Get over yourself.
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No one has ever observed something creating itself. It also violates the law of causality. The law that all of science is based on. So, according to all observable data, it IS impossible.
 
The Ugly Truth said:
The universe exists. That a fact. How did it get here? Scientists don't know. Would you at least admit the possibility of a Creator?
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You are not asking me...

...BUT I CERTAINLY WOULD ACKNOWLEDGE THE POSSIBILITY OF A CREATOR.

Yeah, a creator is possible.

No creator is also possible.

Would you acknowledge that?
 
Frank Apisa said:
I'm an agnostic...but that is NOT what atheism means. And it DOES NOT derive from the Latin...it derives from the Greek.

You do not know what you are talking about.



Since you thought "atheism" was Latin...why even bother with this other nonsense.
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atheo: atheo (Latin) Noun atheō Inflection of atheos (dative singular) Inflection of atheos (ablative singular)
 
The Ugly Truth said:
No one has ever observed something creating itself.
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You do not know that for sure. You may have observed something creating itself...and not realized it was happening.

That belongs to the realm of philosophy...not science.


It also violates the law of causality. The law that all of science is based on. So, according to all observable data, it IS impossible.
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So you are actually going to insist that there HAS TO BE A CREATOR...and people like Albert Einstein, Richard Feynman, and Stephen Hawking were simply not as smart as you...so they could not see that incredible truth you are attempting to sell?

Get over yourself.
 
evince said:
there is no proof of one so why?


matter is merely the reality of existence

It has always existed
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Matter has always existed? Really? And that supposed to be reasonable and scientific? Even the most hard core cosmologist/anti-creationist.......agrees with the laws of physics that prove the Universe is dying via application of those laws......like the laws that apply to Thermodynamics.....and Causality.

You have FAITH but can't prove that matter has always existed? But Science when applied can prove that which has an ending (death...universe), must have had a beginning.


You have faith in 3 things that you can't prove. 1. You believe everything came from nothing 2. You believe that life came from non-living matter that you believe is eternal in spite of the laws of physics. 3. You believe that man came about through a process you call vertical evolution (something changing into a complete and different life form).....you believe that man evolved from the molecules found in star dust. That a few elements somehow evolved to include the entire periodic table of elements....even though no experiment has ever witnessed such change......even when minor suns have been exploded as evidence. Nuclear explosions have resulted in no evolution of the elements. Yet you must claim nuclear fusion of hydrogen and helium results in the entire periodic table? Really?
 
The Ugly Truth said:
atheo: atheo (Latin) Noun atheō Inflection of atheos (dative singular) Inflection of atheos (ablative singular)
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From Merriam-Webster Online:
Etymology of "atheism": Middle French athéisme, from athée atheist, from Greek atheos godless, from a- + theos god


From The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, 4th ed.:
Etymology of "atheism": French athéisme, from athée, atheist, from Greek atheos, godless : a-, without; see a–1 + theos, god”

What else have you got?
 
Frank Apisa said:
You are not asking me...

...BUT I CERTAINLY WOULD ACKNOWLEDGE THE POSSIBILITY OF A CREATOR.

Yeah, a creator is possible.

No creator is also possible.

Would you acknowledge that?
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I believe in a Creator. There is plenty of evidence for one. I could be wrong, but I doubt it. There had to be an uncaused cause for everything. Without one, you have an infinite regression of causes. Which is scientifically impossible. Don't even try to tell me it isn't.
 
Ralph said:
Matter has always existed? Really? And that supposed to be reasonable and scientific? Even the most hard core cosmologist/anti-creationist.......agrees with the laws of physics that prove the Universe is dying via application of those laws......like the laws that apply to Thermodynamics.....and Causality.

You have FAITH but can't prove that matter has always existed? But Science when applied can prove that which has an ending (death...universe), must have had a beginning.


You have faith in 3 things that you can't prove. 1. You believe everything came from nothing 2. You believe that life came from non-living matter that you believe is eternal in spite of the laws of physics. 3. You believe that man came about through a process you call vertical evolution (something changing into a complete and different life form).....you believe that man evolved from the molecules found in star dust. That a few elements somehow evolved to include the entire periodic table of elements....even though no experiment has ever witnessed such change......even when minor suns have been exploded as evidence. Nuclear explosions have resulted in no evolution of the elements. Yet you must claim nuclear fusion of hydrogen and helium results in the entire periodic table? Really?
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Nothing funnier than when stupid people attempt to look learned.

Great example in this quoted post.
 
The Ugly Truth said:
I believe in a Creator. There is plenty of evidence for one. I could be wrong, but I doubt it. There had to be an uncaused cause for everything. Without one, you have an infinite regression of causes. Which is scientifically impossible. Don't even try to tell me it isn't.
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what is the evidence you claim exists
 
Frank Apisa said:
From Merriam-Webster Online:
Etymology of "atheism": Middle French athéisme, from athée atheist, from Greek atheos godless, from a- + theos god


From The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, 4th ed.:
Etymology of "atheism": French athéisme, from athée, atheist, from Greek atheos, godless : a-, without; see a–1 + theos, god”

What else have you got?
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Both Latin and Greek contain words based on the root words of the other language. Atheo is Latin. Atheos is based on the Latin root word. What else have you got?
 
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