Onward Christian soldiers

Obama_Phone said:
what is your spirituality?
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Compassion and empathy for others. Reverence for life, nature and knowledge. The appreciation of the arts. The concept of being a very small part of something so grand it’s beyond my thinking, marveling at that thought. Great food, great relationships and love.
 
Doc Dutch said:
Pope Gregory the First labeled her a whore. There are more statues and icons to the Madonna than Mary Magdelene.

Seems to me like a violation of "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image" commandment.
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I didn't know that about pope Gregory.

I've never heard anything bad about her in the Orthodox tradition, where she has saithood status. I assumed the controversy about her was mainly because of Dan Brown's book
 
Phantasmal said:
Compassion and empathy for others. Reverence for life, nature and knowledge. The appreciation of the arts. The concept of being a very small part of something so grand it’s beyond my thinking, marveling at that thought. Great food, great relationships and love.
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sounds like a good start!
 
Obama_Phone said:
but you must have something that tells you what the laws should be.

a moral framework? a golden rule of some kind?

law and order with no guidance?

sounds horrific. this is why you're losing.
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Order, respect, the concept that you don’t want people taking what is yours or murdering your loved ones, so you establish laws to punish those who break social order. It’s the common sense rules to maintain a society. I do not need a god to understand these simple principles or a god to make me respect others because I want to live in peace without threat.
 
Cypress said:
I didn't know that about pope Gregory.

I've never heard anything bad about her in the Orthodox tradition, where she has saithood status. I assumed the controversy about her was mainly because of Dan Brown's book
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It was a Catholic thing which the Protestants were more than happy to adopt.
 
Jade Dragon said:
As a Christian I want to flat out say that Mr. Johnson is cuckoo for cocoa puffs.
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When I was about 8 I asked one of the pastors of my church about fossils and their ages. His answer was: "The Devil puts false evidence in the Earth for the unfaithful to find, it helps them explain away God and the Devil wins." (Almost word for word there).

It did not convince me. But then I had real actual fear of Heaven, it sounds like a horrible place to me. Gilded streets and perpetual hosannas for an eternity are not appealing to me at all. I preferred to reason it out. I don't want to go to either place, no matter which I was sent to would be torture... that can't be what the universe is about.
 
Obama_Phone said:
ThatOwlWoman said:
Cypress is correct. You are wrong.

There were no Protestants until Martin Luther, founder of the very first Protestant sect called (wait for it!) "Lutheranism" and father of the Reformation. That was in October of 1517. Before that time, the only Christians were Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox Catholic.

What Forms of Christianity Existed Before The Reformation?



do you think the catholic church was the only christianity at one point?
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Christianity had no official name till the Catholic Church, founded by St. Peter (as commanded by Jesus), formed and became THE Christian church. Before that, there were multiple small, disorganized groups, not even aware of each other, some in hiding depending on their local government. The word "catholic," by the way, means "including a wide variety of things," per the Oxford Dictionary. The Catholic church gathered all the little sects together under one umbrella. It was THE church until Martin Luther's revolt in 1517.

How do you not know this about your own religion?
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ThatOwlWoman said:
Obama_Phone said:
Christianity had no official name till the Catholic Church, founded by St. Peter (as commanded by Jesus), formed and became THE Christian church. Before that, there were multiple small, disorganized groups, not even aware of each other, some in hiding depending on their local government. The word "catholic," by the way, means "including a wide variety of things," per the Oxford Dictionary. The Catholic church gathered all the little sects together under one umbrella. It was THE church until Martin Luther's revolt in 1517.

How do you not know this about your own religion?
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it doesnt matter what it was called.

the catholic church has never been the only christianity.
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Cypress said:
I didn't know that about pope Gregory.
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The Catholic Church apologized and rectified the problem a few years back.

https://uscatholic.org/articles/201603/who-framed-mary-magdalene/
Who framed Mary Magdalene?
The first witness to Christ’s Resurrection was made into a prostitute. Women today are restoring her reputation.
Although the decline of Mary of Magdala’s reputation as apostle and leader most likely began shortly after her death, the transformation to penitent prostitute was sealed on Sept. 14, 591, when Pope Gregory the Great gave a homily in Rome that pronounced that Mary Magdalene, Luke’s unnamed sinner, and Mary of Bethany were, indeed, the same person.

“She whom Luke calls the sinful woman, whom John calls Mary, we believe to be the Mary from whom seven devils were ejected according to Mark,” Gregory said in his 23rd homily. “And what did these seven devils signify, if not all the vices? . . . It is clear, brothers, that the woman previously used the unguent to perfume her flesh in forbidden acts . . .”
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Cypress said:
Mary Magdalene is considered a Saint in the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox traditions, and she is prominently featured in the Gospels, so I don't think she is getting short shifted. She is a key player in Jesus' ministry. I'm not sure about this, but in Catholic and Orthodox traditions, the Virgin Mary seems to be almost closer to God than the other saints and apostles. I'm guessing the immaculate conception and being Mother of God places her slightly above the mere mortals.
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If anyone downgraded the Virgin Mary's status as an important NT figure, it was the Protestants. You are right, she is revered in RC and EO traditions. Not so much in mainstream Christian sects like Lutheran, Methodist, etc. Even less so among fundies and evangelicals, where she's just a nativity scene figure and not much else.

I've often wondered if the RC church promoted Mary, Mother of God as a holy figure in order to appeal to the pagan beliefs in goddesses as well as gods, to win them over.
 
Doc Dutch said:
Pope Gregory the First labeled her a whore. There are more statues and icons to the Madonna than Mary Magdelene.

Seems to me like a violation of "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image" commandment.
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That is why in protestant churches, the only portrayed figures are of Jesus or God. Mostly they don't tend to have even that.
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
Christianity had no official name till the Catholic Church, founded by St. Peter (as commanded by Jesus), formed and became THE Christian church. Before that, there were multiple small, disorganized groups, not even aware of each other, some in hiding depending on their local Jesus, Sermon on the Plain:
Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God. Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the Earth. Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God. Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called the Sons of God. Love your enemies and turn the other cheek. Treat others the way you want to be treated. Don't judge and you won't be judged, don't condemn and you won't be condemned, forgive and you will be forgiven, give and you will receive. Remove the log from your own eye before attending to the splinter in your friend's. A good tree does not produce bad fruit and a bad tree cannot produce good fruit, each tree is known by its fruit.. The word "catholic," by the way, means "including a wide variety of things," per the Oxford Dictionary. The Catholic church gathered all the little sects together under one umbrella. It was THE church until Martin Luther's revolt in 1517.

How do you not know this about your own religion?
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MAGAs often know very little about their own religion!

There is a reason Medieval Europe was called Christendom. It was unified under the universal church. At least in principle until the Great Schism between the western and eastern Churches in the 11th century.

The educated MAGA might start hollering about Nestorian Christians, or other minor heretical sects. But Nestorians and Gnostics never existed in Europe to any significant degree, and at any rate the Nestorians were driven into Asia by late antiquity.
 
Damocles said:
When I was about 8 I asked one of the pastors of my church about fossils and their ages. His answer was: "The Devil puts false evidence in the Earth for the unfaithful to find, it helps them explain away God and the Devil wins." (Almost word for word there).

It did not convince me. But then I had real actual fear of Heaven, it sounds like a horrible place to me. Gilded streets and perpetual hosannas for an eternity are not appealing to me at all. I preferred to reason it out. I don't want to go to either place, no matter which I was sent to would be torture... that can't be what the universe is about.
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Interesting. I'd be hesitant myself if that's what they instilled the idea of heaven as. Heaven is simply supposed to be a place of peace, free of hunger, and full of life. Hell is the absence of God and all that Heaven is.
 
Doc Dutch said:
Pope Gregory the First labeled her a whore. There are more statues and icons to the Madonna than Mary Magdelene.

Seems to me like a violation of "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image" commandment.
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The explanation I heard is that if you read the Decalogue in context, the prohibition is against graven images that are intended as objects of worship.

Icons aren't worshipped strictly speaking.
 
Damocles said:
When I was about 8 I asked one of the pastors of my church about fossils and their ages. His answer was: "The Devil puts false evidence in the Earth for the unfaithful to find, it helps them explain away God and the Devil wins." (Almost word for word there).

It did not convince me. But then I had real actual fear of Heaven, it sounds like a horrible place to me. Gilded streets and perpetual hosannas for an eternity are not appealing to me at all. I preferred to reason it out. I don't want to go to either place, no matter which I was sent to would be torture... that can't be what the universe is about.
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Ra-men to that last paragraph.

Mike Johnson believes in what that pastor told you. Is it wise for an ostensibly-free nation to have someone like that within a "couple of heartbeats of the Presidency"?
 
Jade Dragon said:
Interesting. I'd be hesitant myself if that's what they instilled the idea of heaven as. Heaven is simply supposed to be a place of peace, free of hunger, and full of life. Hell is the absence of God and all that Heaven is.
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That is not what it is described as, it is just what you assume it will be for you. Don't let me discourage you. My purpose has never been to convince folks to believe like me.

I took the evidence given in the book they told me was "true", I did not want the "reward" they offered any more than I wanted the punishment. A vague "place of peace" is not enough to drive me, and the fear of punishment wasn't either since both places sounded like punishment. And the place as described in Revelations didn't sound like a place I would want to live for an eternity by any means. Though a half hour of silence would be nice.
 
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