Onward Christian soldiers

Doc Dutch said:
Despite all the haters of religion, the Catholic church funded some of the greatest art and science in Europe from the end up the Roman Empire throughout the Middle Ages.
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Agree, a fair armchair historian has look at the whole balance sheet. Not just the bad parts and not just the good parts.
 
Cypress said:
I doubt I am going to hell because I have some wooden icons :laugh:
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I doubt you are going to hell because it doesn't exist.

The only unforgiveable sin is to mock the Holy Spirit. So, you'd generally be safe, though you likely haven't confessed your worship of idols... (winky here because it is sarcasm, for those folk who cannot discern such things) ;)
 
Damocles said:
They base this on the "no man comes to the Father but by Me!" verse in the Bible.

They think of God as family... You speak directly to your father, not through surrogates. Praying to someone other than God (Jesus) is anathema to them. Also using icons... They see that as idolatry and worshipping someone other than God.
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Thanks, that's what I've heard.

The Methodist church I attended service at a few times sure was plain and unadorned!
 
Cypress said:
Agree, a fair armchair historian has look at the whole balance sheet. Not just the bad parts and not just the good parts.
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Agreed 100%.

Overall, the results are good albeit following the "two steps forward, one step back" rule.

There's a lot of people on this forum who like to single out the US for all the evil in the world. They are not seeing the entire tapestry of humanity's progress over the past 2000 years much less the last 4000-5000 years.
 
Damocles said:
I doubt you are going to hell because it doesn't exist.

The only unforgiveable sin is to mock the Holy Spirit. So, you'd generally be safe, though you likely haven't confessed your worship of idols... (winky here because it is sarcasm, for those folk who cannot discern such things) ;)
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I don't even think icons count as graven images. I think the word graven implies carving, as in carved wood or stone.

Icons are just painted wooden blocks. And stained glass hardly qualifies as graven
 
Cypress said:
I don't even think icons count as graven images. I think the word graven implies carving, as in carved wood or stone.

Icons are just painted wooden blocks. And stained glass hardly qualifies as graven
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Some protestant churches have things like stained glass, though you will always see a lack of iconography. A picture of Mary would just be a picture, not something itself endowed with holiness, there would not be a special place for such a thing in a protestant church though such a thing may exist there. The church I grew up in had an "art ministry" they painted murals, etc. around in classrooms. Not all are plain and unadorned, though IMHO, usually the best of them are... Spending the money of the faithful on flare rather than on alms or otherwise to enhance the planet... just wasteful.
 
Cypress said:
Thanks.

Good insight.

In some ways, that feels weird to me that Protestants don't have saints or venerate the virgin Mary.
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The explanation for that that I was given was that Martin Luther espoused believers' ability to directly speak with God through prayer. Before that, RC teaching was that we were too humble and lowly to bother Him, so we were to ask the saints and/or Mary to intercede on our behalf when we had a prayer request.
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
The explanation for that that I was given was that Martin Luther espoused believers' ability to directly speak with God through prayer. Before that, RC teaching was that we were too humble and lowly to bother Him, so we were to ask the saints and/or Mary to intercede on our behalf when we had a prayer request.
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Agreed. A major tenet of Protestantism is a direct line to God, no intermediaries. It also helps explain why Protestants strongly hold to "Jesus is Lord", that the Holy Trinity are one entity.
 
Damocles said:
I think it is extreme to insist on abortion until (and sometimes even after) birth, but I realize that folks that believe differently than I will be elected. This idea that people who believe differently than you who get elected are somehow "dangerous" and might enact laws that you disagree with (yeah, they got elected) and ran on. I get why you would run and vote against them, but trying to pretend that they are "dangerous" when their beliefs, just like yours, are protected by the same Constitution we rely on to curtail the basest instincts of the power hungry... I shake my head at that. I disagree vehemently with that kind of nonsense. I think folks who think the Constitution is changeable by simply believing differently rather than a constraint on government that ensures our liberties are dangerous to our nation, not folks who think there is a god.

We will likely always vote differently. However telling me to fear folks like my mother, for instance, because they are "dangerous" because they "believe differently"... I think Democrats very often are actually dangerous because they tell you the constitution shouldn't constrain the government the way it does... Thankfully even they haven't destroyed the nation yet, because the constitution continues to constrain them.
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I have never known a single person or politician who espoused "abortion up to or after birth," and I've worked in the health care field most of my life, as well as being a mother myself. That's hyperbole used by forced-birthers.

What is not hyperbole: The nationwide push by elected forced-birthers, mostly based on their religion(s), to ban abortion. Ditto for banning SSM. Ditto for banning books they don't like. Ditto for passing legislation discriminating against trans people. This is happening right now.

Taking rights away from citizens is dangerous. As a gun owner, you believe that taking ownership of guns away from citizens is dangerous. You most likely consider politicians who favor gun restriction to be dangerous, don't you?

Your mom is not a party to this discussion nor would any sane person consider her dangerous because she doesn't believe the same as someone else. She's not a politician and is in no position to enact law restricting human rights, eh?
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
I have never known a single person or politician who espoused "abortion up to or after birth," and I've worked in the health care field most of my life, as well as being a mother myself. That's hyperbole used by forced-birthers.

What is not hyperbole: The nationwide push by elected forced-birthers, mostly based on their religion(s), to ban abortion. Ditto for banning SSM. Ditto for banning books they don't like. Ditto for passing legislation discriminating against trans people. This is happening right now.

Taking rights away from citizens is dangerous. As a gun owner, you believe that taking ownership of guns away from citizens is dangerous. You most likely consider politicians who favor gun restriction to be dangerous, don't you?

Your mom is not a party to this discussion nor would any sane person consider her dangerous because she doesn't believe the same as someone else. She's not a politician and is in no position to enact law restricting human rights, eh?
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Abortion after birth is a non sequitur. Sounds stupid enough to have been thought up by Tucker Carlson or some other idiot who sold their soul for mammon.
 
Doc Dutch said:
Agreed. A major tenet of Protestantism is a direct line to God, no intermediaries. It also helps explain why Protestants strongly hold to "Jesus is Lord", that the Holy Trinity are one entity.
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Another distinction is that in Catholicism, the priest is a spokesman for God and can forgive your sins when you go to Confession. In the Protestant belief system, you can tell Jesus that you committed a sin, repent, and receive forgiveness without a priest having to help.
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
Another distinction is that in Catholicism, the priest is a spokesman for God and can forgive your sins when you go to Confession. In the Protestant belief system, you can tell Jesus that you committed a sin, repent, and receive forgiveness without a priest having to help.
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In Judaism you ask forgiveness from the person you offended and make amends, no one else can forgive another's sins or die for another's sins


God cannot forgive offenses between people until the relevant people have forgiven each other.
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
Another distinction is that in Catholicism, the priest is a spokesman for God and can forgive your sins when you go to Confession. In the Protestant belief system, you can tell Jesus that you committed a sin, repent, and receive forgiveness without a priest having to help.
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That certainly became useful on the Oregan Trail. :thup:
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
The explanation for that that I was given was that Martin Luther espoused believers' ability to directly speak with God through prayer. Before that, RC teaching was that we were too humble and lowly to bother Him, so we were to ask the saints and/or Mary to intercede on our behalf when we had a prayer request.
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I read something briefly on him the other day. One thesis was that one’s salvation is solely dependent on faith, not deeds.
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
That's a good summation of basic Protestant beliefs.
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"I believe I am saved". Whew! Glad that's over. :thup:

Sadly, too many of JPP's white supremacists believe they can be redeemed for the asking on Sunday then sin all week without repercussions.
 
Phantasmal said:
Compassion and empathy for others. Reverence for life, nature and knowledge. The appreciation of the arts. The concept of being a very small part of something so grand it’s beyond my thinking, marveling at that thought. Great food, great relationships and love.
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Did you take your vow of poverty like Mother Teresa, too? :palm:

Is an unborn child 'life"?

Christ in a jar of piss is art? Mapplethorpe's child porn is art?

Does 'nature' switch children's genders?

Do you live in blissful harmony with nature like the modern myth of native American culture?
 
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Bigdog said:
Did you take your vow of poverty like Mother Teresa, too? :palm:

Christ in a jar of piss is art? Mapplethorpe's child porn is art?

Does 'nature' switch children's genders? Do you live in blissful harmony with nature like the native American myth?
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^^^
Only talks the talk, never walks the walk.

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