PA called for Satan

[blackascoal]

Its becoming fascinating isn't it?!

Show's that are usually geared toward local gossip/lifestyles have heated callers dialing in and they can't stand Hillary. Her and Bill have actually made a piece of the black electorate accessible to republicans. I don't think the Clintons understand that this won't just blow over in a couple of months. People are bitter and PO'd at how the democrats are taking the black vote for granted.

Myself included.

The Clintons feel they no longer need the black vote and they will simply replace it with hispanics. Now they feel their pain.

The raca efor the nomination is over as there is no way Clinton will get it .. but watch them closely when she's out.

 

[Onceler]

Is the problem Hillary Clinton or is it the people who are still voting for her .. even after she has exposed her true character and even after she has said "We must win the war in Iraq", and "I will obliterate Iran"?

The Democratic Party is a party of centrists and guaranteed to be so with the creation of the DLC, otherwise known as the Clinton wing of the party.

Liberals need a party of their own.

I always considered myself more of a centrist, and there is no way I'd vote for Hillary.

I don't think it has anything to do with centrism. Hillary gets a lot of old people, women & working class. Old people don't want change; it's scary. Women vote Hillary for obvious reasons. Working class voters see Obama as elitist.

Obama is a market liberal, but he's likely to govern from a centrist place, because he is interested in coalitions & true bipartisanship.

 

[blackascoal]

He will offer and she will accept.
She has next to zero chance to win at this point.
He'll throw in the crump of zhar of Healthcare to beaf it up.

Two words for him .. Vince Foster.

Never let the Clintons walk behind you.

 

[Cancel7]

Is the problem Hillary Clinton or is it the people who are still voting for her .. even after she has exposed her true character and even after she has said "We must win the war in Iraq", and "I will obliterate Iran"?

The Democratic Party is a party of centrists and guaranteed to be so with the creation of the DLC, otherwise known as the Clinton wing of the party.

Liberals need a party of their own.

I think that the problem is both actually.

I always was one who believed that building a third party is so difficult, that you play right into the hands of the opposition to even try and go there. That you work within the party whose platform best reflects your beliefs, and try to pull it closer to what you want. That may no longer be possible. I think what the religious right and the no tax base of the R party has proved that it should be possible, that it was possible. But it’s not working in the Dem party and that is probably due to corporate money, so it’s probably time to walk away and vote third party. I see it as kind of futile though. I’m kind of resigned to a future of corporatism and diminishing civil rights and perpetual war. I would like to find a home for myself some place else. But I don’t know if it’s in the cards. Family and business ties and what not. But it’s what my heart wants at this point. I don't think I fit in here anymore.

 

[Cancel7]

The Clintons feel they no longer need the black vote and they will simply replace it with hispanics. Now they feel their pain.

The raca efor the nomination is over as there is no way Clinton will get it .. but watch them closely when she's out.

Oh. The growing Hispanic vote, right. That explains their attitude. You’re right. Wow, that is some calculating shit.

 

[blackascoal]

I think that the problem is both actually.

I always was one who believed that building a third party is so difficult, that you play right into the hands of the opposition to even try and go there. That you work within the party whose platform best reflects your beliefs, and try to pull it closer to what you want. That may no longer be possible. I think what the religious right and the no tax base of the R party has proved that it should be possible, that it was possible. But it’s not working in the Dem party and that is probably due to corporate money, so it’s probably time to walk away and vote third party. I see it as kind of futile though. I’m kind of resigned to a future of corporatism and diminishing civil rights and perpetual war. I would like to find a home for myself some place else. But I don’t know if it’s in the cards. Family and business ties and what not. But it’s what my heart wants at this point. I don't think I fit in here anymore.

Don't be disheartened my sister. Understand that politics is all about incrementalism. It took hundreds of years to even get to this point. Women and blacks have been free in this country for about 5 minutes on America's historical clock.

As long as Americans remain trapped in the two-party system, we can always be manipulated. That is the reality staring us in the face. Whether it's too difficult or daunting a challenge to correct ultimately determines the limits of democracy.

There is a GIANT gaping hole in the concept of democracy and it's called MONEY. Those who have it control the levers of government and they control the media .. and they control election outcomes.

Neither communism, socialism, marxism, North Korea, Cuba, China, or Russia pose the threat to the democracy as does corporatism.

Without question, Americans face a new way of life going forward. There are going to be far less resources as we get closer to the rest of the world.

Consequence is what will direct our political course. Bush scared Americans to the left, but for many, it's going to take a bit more pain before they recognize the enemy is them.

 

[blackascoal]

Oh. The growing Hispanic vote, right. That explains their attitude. You’re right. Wow, that is some calculating shit.

The Clintons are nothing if not calculating.

They also believe they no longer need liberals, especially activists. Hillary gave MoveOn the finger and doesn't give a damn what antiwar activists are saying about obliterating Iran.

They've clearly exposed their hand and there are a great many within the party who are trying to figure out how to get rid of them.

Ever wonder why many who have worked for them closely and know them best aren't supporting them?

 

[LadyT]

I agree Soc.

To me it all goes back to what I said earlier. Because one is a woman, and one an African American, the second it got to the point that one couldn’t win without the superdelegates stepping in, that person had to leave the race, gracefully. Once that didn’t happen, this thing was doomed. Obama voters aren't going to vote for her either. I disagree with Tiana and maybe several others, certainly with Top. I think John McCain is our next President. That means lives. Young lives. But that’s how it’s going to be. And all because The Clintons said the rules are different for them, and they didn't have to leave the race once she lost 11 in a row and the math turned against her. That's what's going to put an R in the white house after 8 years of the biggest and most stunning failure of an adminstration, a party, and an ideology in my lifetime. None of it is going to matter.

The republicans must be calling her up and offering to lick her ass. She just gave them what they shouldn't have been able to get.

I think Obama has some fight in him. He's fighting "nice" with Hillary which is going to hurt him in the general but he genuinely kicks McSames but on every issue.

But then again, we are talking about teh idiots that voted for Bush.

 

[Cancel7]

Don't be disheartened my sister. Understand that politics is all about incrementalism. It took hundreds of years to even get to this point. Women and blacks have been free in this country for about 5 minutes on America's historical clock.

As long as Americans remain trapped in the two-party system, we can always be manipulated. That is the reality staring us in the face. Whether it's too difficult or daunting a challenge to correct ultimately determines the limits of democracy.

There is a GIANT gaping hole in the concept of democracy and it's called MONEY. Those who have it control the levers of government and they control the media .. and they control election outcomes.

Neither communism, socialism, marxism, North Korea, Cuba, China, or Russia pose the threat to the democracy as does corporatism.

Without question, Americans face a new way of life going forward. There are going to be far less resources as we get closer to the rest of the world.

Consequence is what will direct our political course. Bush scared Americans to the left, but for many, it's going to take a bit more pain before they recognize the enemy is them.

Yeah, I know someone who is voting for McCain just because she believes that Americans need four more years of this before they really wake up. She thinks that what bush put into motion can't be stopped with one administration, and the people are going to blame the next President for this impending collapse. So we would get a one term President, and then be looking at Jeb Bush or some crazy shit like that, for the 8 years after that.

I don't know. I'll try not to get too disheartened Bac.

 

[LadyT]

The Clintons feel they no longer need the black vote and they will simply replace it with hispanics. Now they feel their pain.

The raca efor the nomination is over as there is no way Clinton will get it .. but watch them closely when she's out.

You're probably right.

 

[Cancel7]

The Clintons are nothing if not calculating.

They also believe they no longer need liberals, especially activists. Hillary gave MoveOn the finger and doesn't give a damn what antiwar activists are saying about obliterating Iran.

They've clearly exposed their hand and there are a great many within the party who are trying to figure out how to get rid of them.

Ever wonder why many who have worked for them closely and know them best aren't supporting them?

Well I haven't wondered that lately, actually. lol.

 

[Onceler]

I think Obama has some fight in him. He's fighting "nice" with Hillary which is going to hurt him in the general but he genuinely kicks McSames but on every issue.

But then again, we are talking about teh idiots that voted for Bush.

It's a calculation on his part. Word is that his camp is split on "going negative," but he is resisting because ultimately, he believes he already has this thing won, and he also needs Hillary's voters (who seem, according to polls, not to care too much, as many say they won't vote for him anyway).

Kerry set this up. He didn't fight back, and got clobbered, and Dems in general don't want to see that again. They'd rather have Hillary's deranged version of "fighting" than another passive candidate. But I believe we'll see a different Obama against McCain.

 

[uscitizen]

One thing is certain. I will not vote for McCain and loose my rubbing it in rights on those who do vote for him.

 

[Cancel7]

I think Obama has some fight in him. He's fighting "nice" with Hillary which is going to hurt him in the general but he genuinely kicks McSames but on every issue.

But then again, we are talking about teh idiots that voted for Bush.

Yeah, it is hurting him. But on the other hand, the one positive out of that is, women like my mom. She’s not one of those who says they won’t vote for him if he’s the nominee. She does not dislike Obama. She just wants a woman in the Presidency, has had that bs about I’ve worked for this for 35 years, drilled into her head and believes Hillary has earned it, and she admires the fight she’s putting up. But if he’s the nominee, she will vote for Obama.

That could change really fast if she saw him “beating up” on Hillary, even though she beats up on him all the time, and she’s got some coming back. Certain women won’t perceive it that way. But he knows this, and he has maintained their respect, and that could be important.

 

[blackascoal]

I think Obama has some fight in him. He's fighting "nice" with Hillary which is going to hurt him in the general but he genuinely kicks McSames but on every issue.

But then again, we are talking about teh idiots that voted for Bush.

Obama has tried to keep the general election in mind and not get bogged down in attacking Clinton, but I suspect they know the gloves have to come off.

 

[Onceler]

One thing is certain. I will not vote for McCain and loose my rubbing it in rights on those who do vote for him.

And if Hillary nukes Iran?

I'd rather be saying I didn't vote for the person who nuked Iran.

 

[blackascoal]

And if Hillary nukes Iran?

I'd rather be saying I didn't vote for the person who nuked Iran.

The only sane choice left may be Cynthia McKinney.

 

[Don Quixote]

Yeah, but I'm tall.

You know what, Top? Going through life tall is great. It's one of the best things ever.

o

yes and no, i was 6'2" in high school in the early 60's and it had its advantages and disadvantages...

 

[Cancel7]

It's a calculation on his part. Word is that his camp is split on "going negative," but he is resisting because ultimately, he believes he already has this thing won, and he also needs Hillary's voters (who seem, according to polls, not to care too much, as many say they won't vote for him anyway).

Kerry set this up. He didn't fight back, and got clobbered, and Dems in general don't want to see that again. They'd rather have Hillary's deranged version of "fighting" than another passive candidate. But I believe we'll see a different Obama against McCain.

That number (who they won't vote for him) is going to come down, I believe.

And as I said, he’s kept women like my mom, willing to vote for him if he’s the nominee. She can’t be the only one. There has to be a large percentage of white women over 50 like her, who do not dislike Obama. I know this is an unfair advantage but the fact is that there is a demographic of women who have been bullied by men all their lives, or at least part of their lives. And they freak when they see anything that reminds them of that. I personally did not realize what a big moment it was when Lazio crossed that stage, in her 2000 debate for Senate. But I’ve never been bullied by a man. It’s just not my personality type. So I had no backlash in me. He’s probably done the smart thing not going after her. I wish he could though.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Obama has tried to keep the general election in mind and not get bogged down in attacking Clinton, but I suspect they know the gloves have to come off.

Now or in the general?

I think it is better for him to wait for the general. I would agree with Lorax that the Dems do not want a passive campaign, but I think they would prefer the gloves to stay on until he faces McCain rather than attacking another Dem... no matter what Hillary does.

He has this won... once NC is done, it is over (meaning no way do the supers go against him....not meaning that Hillary will actually accept that it is over). He should win there by at least 10% and should make a close race out of Indiana.