Prove to me that God doesn’t exist

Cypress said:
Even when we are agnostic or atheist, and even when we strip away the religious language, we are still practicing the inherited binding moral framework we adopted from our two thousand year embrace of Judaism, Christianity, Buddhism', Islam, depending on where we live. History and geography is in our DNA.
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You keep saying this. You never give evidence.
 
Cypress said:
Science and atheism don't have any binding, universal ethical framework.

If everybody was out there deciding for themselves what morality means, there would be no consistent vision of what constitutes morally upright behavior.

Even when we are agnostic or atheist, and even when we strip away the religious language, we are still practicing the inherited binding moral framework we adopted from our two thousand year embrace of Judaism, Christianity, Buddhism', Islam, depending on where we live. History and geography is in our DNA.
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I beg to differ


Understanding the human mind with science gives you that connection

When you understand how the human mind could NEVER HAVE brought mankind to such a level as we see now without the elements of human interconnection it is beautiful


Mankind could not have prospered and excelled without the need to care about others


The human mind had to develop a deep need to help and understand their fellow clan members


In so doing it expanded the human brain into a dreaming machine


It can imagine a future that it has yet to live


And then create those conditions


Without our compassion we were doomed

It’s as human to be compassionate as it is to be smart


We couldn’t have one without the other



That is utterly beautiful to me
 
Cypress said:
Science and atheism don't have any binding, universal ethical framework.

If everybody was out there deciding for themselves what morality means, there would be no consistent vision of what constitutes morally upright behavior.

Even when we are agnostic or atheist, and even when we strip away the religious language, we are still practicing the inherited binding moral framework we adopted from our two thousand year embrace of Judaism, Christianity, Buddhism', Islam, depending on where we live. History and geography is in our DNA.
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A slight disagreement. Agreed that atheists, especially militant ones, tend to do whatever they like. From a science POV, specifically psychology and sociology, some rules for optimal performance can be established. The rules evolved naturally and are often incorporated in many religions. Hammurabi’s Code and the Ten Commandments are two examples. These rules and codes would be based upon basic human behavior and physical limitations.


https://www.britannica.com/topic/Code-of-Hammurabi
The background of the code is a body of Sumerian law under which civilized communities had lived for many centuries. The existing text is in the Akkadian (Semitic) language, but, even though no Sumerian version is known to survive, the code was meant to be applied to a wider realm than any single country and to integrate Semitic and Sumerian traditions and peoples. Moreover, despite a few primitive survivals relating to family solidarity, district responsibility, trial by ordeal, and the lex talionis (i.e., an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth), the code was advanced far beyond tribal custom and recognized no blood feud, private retribution, or marriage by capture.
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Cypress said:
Science and atheism don't have any binding, universal ethical framework.

If everybody was out there deciding for themselves what morality means, there would be no consistent vision of what constitutes morally upright behavior.

Even when we are agnostic or atheist, and even when we strip away the religious language, we are still practicing the inherited binding moral framework we adopted from our two thousand year embrace of Judaism, Christianity, Buddhism', Islam, depending on where we live. History and geography is in our DNA.
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Nope

We created those religions to fit how our brains function


Which included the NEED for a moral base to life
 
Doc Dutch said:
A slight disagreement. Agreed that atheists, especially militant ones, tend to do whatever they like. From a science POV, specifically psychology and sociology, some rules for optimal performance can be established. The rules evolved naturally and are often incorporated in many religions. Hammurabi’s Code and the Ten Commandments are two examples. These rules and codes would be based upon basic human behavior and physical limitations.


https://www.britannica.com/topic/Code-of-Hammurabi
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Hammurabi is basically a criminal code: don't murder, don't steal.

Being able to control oneself from murdering and raping is not even close to being sufficient as a guide for moral behavior. It's the absolute bare minimum of a moral life


Even when people don't practice the ethics we inherited from the Axial Age religions, they feel a powerful social pressure to do so. Even if Trump doesn't believe in charity and mercy, he still set up a fake charitable foundation to give the illusion he was comporting himself with long accepted ethical expectations
 
Cypress said:
Hammurabi is basically a criminal code: don't murder, don't steal.

Being able to control oneself from murdering and raping is not even close to being sufficient as a guide for moral behavior. It's the absolute bare minimum of a moral life


Even when people don't practice the ethics we inherited from the Axial Age religions, they feel a powerful social pressure to do so. Even if Trump doesn't believe in charity and mercy, he still set up a fake charitable foundation to give the illusion he was comporting himself with long accepted ethical expectations
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Exactly. Perfect for a largely illiterate, primitive society barely out of their mud huts and living in a village.
 
NiftyNiblick said:
I got into this discussion late.

Are we talking about Texas here?:laugh:
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No. Yankee Bluebloods who need help finding a public toilet and would be completely lost in the woods.

Aren’t I supposed to be in ignore this week? You flip-flop so much, I forget.
 
Doc Dutch said:
No. Yankee Bluebloods who need help finding a public toilet and would be completely lost in the woods.

Aren’t I supposed to be in ignore this week? You flip-flop so much, I forget.
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No, dumbass. You have an open mic this week for the first time in a while.
It's playtime for Oom and Nifty.

By the way, did you forget how few Sicilians were on the Mayflower?
How am I a Yankee Blueblood? Maybe you were speaking of somebody else. I shouldn't jump to conclusions.
 
NiftyNiblick said:
No, dumbass. You have an open mic this week for the first time in a while.
It's playtime for Oom and Nifty.

By the way, did you forget how few Sicilians were on the Mayflower?
How am I a Yankee Blueblood? Maybe you were speaking of somebody else. I shouldn't jump to conclusions.
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IMO, the dumbasses are those who run around claiming they have people on ignore and then repeatedly prove themselves to be liars. Sad, but expected from certain cultures..
 
Doc Dutch said:
IMO, the dumbasses are those who run around claiming they have people on ignore and then repeatedly prove themselves to be liars. Sad, but expected from certain cultures..
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Well played.

No explanation of the stupid blue blood remark.
No recognition of my recent long post on the ignore function.
No indicators of any change since out last discourse.

Oom will always be Oom.
In the words of Billy Joel...
on second thought, forget that.

You should probably consider changing, don't you think?
 
NiftyNiblick said:
Well played.

No explanation of the stupid blue blood remark.
No recognition of my recent long post on the ignore function.
No indicators of any change since out last discourse.

Oom will always be Oom.
In the words of Billy Joel...
on second thought, forget that.

You should probably consider changing, don't you think?
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You forgot to say you were putting me back on ignore. :rofl2:
 
evince said:
Nope

We created those religions to fit how our brains function


Which included the NEED for a moral base to life
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I didn't say God wrote the Bible or that the Archangel Gabriel actually spoke to Muhammed

People in the Axial age wrote the extant canon of Buddhism, Judaism, Taoism, Zoroastrianism to fit the evolving need for a metaphysical moral vision and a desire for spiritual liberation.

Religion was the vehicle in which those developments in human moral vision evolved. Spiritual liberation resulting from personal moral development was the key turning point of the Axial Age
 
Cypress said:
I didn't say God wrote the Bible or that the Archangel Gabriel actually spoke to Muhammed

People in the Axial age wrote the extant canon of Buddhism, Judaism, Taoism, Zoroastrianism to fit the evolving need for a metaphysical moral vision and a desire for spiritual liberation.

Religion was the vehicle in which those developments in human moral vision evolved. Spiritual liberation resulting from moral development was the key turning point of the Axial Age
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Although the reason all of this happened is unclear, IMO, it seems to be a culmination of human social evolution.

James Burke’s series “Connections” often linked how it took specific developments in science and technology before other advances in science and technology could happen. An example would be a digital watch: it requires specific advances in plastic, batteries, the IC chip itself, etc before it could be developed.

Likewise, I think the social advances in the Axial Age wouldn’t have happened without the previous development of human society, literacy and technology to sustain a city such as granaries and aqueducts.

Such developments would spread relatively quickly due to the human propensity to control their environment, including making war on their fellow humans. Such a city-state would have a distinct advantage over individual villages and nomadic tribes. Conflicts would occur and the city-states have the advantage.
 
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