Questions for the religious

Ralph said:
I find it very amusing....when someone...anyone attempts to use the Bible in order to refute the Bible. When its demonstrated that the actual text of the Bible does not come close to relaying the message pretended to be presented by the questioner.....there is a sudden 180 degree about facE, once again the Bible cannot defend itself because of the content actually located within it? Really? Sounds kind'a secular and circular to me. First the Bible is the best thing since sliced bread when you think you have found a GOTCHA! But worthless to be used IN ITS OWN DEFENSE? :laugh:

When anyone is attempting to defend Christian Doctrine.....is there a more authoritarian source than the Holy Scriptures....as that is were all of Christianity is founded, THE WORD? Priceless amusement. What you are attempting is just as logical as saying, "I wish to debate you on the merits of the US Constitution in relation to the US rule of law......but you cannot use the Constitution to prove your argument. Funny as hell...oophs.
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Snake cults existed for a thousnd years in the Indus Valley, Arabian peninsula, the Levant, Mesopotamia and Egypt where the snake represented widom, fertility, death and rebirth.

The snake also appears in the story of Moses.. Numbers 21:9.
 
I always wonder whether Jesus spoke any other languages than Aramaic. The joke about Peter being the rock on which he will build his Church ( and the subsequent Papal claims) seem to depend on his speaking Greek in quite a usual way, doesn't it?
 
Ralph said:
Sure....there are no valid TRANSLATIONS from Hebrew into Greek and then into English....its just a Conspiracy. And Jesus Himself never taught from a Greek translation? Strange is the fact that seculars question the validity of translating the Bible into modern English while its easy to compare those translations with the 5800 original manuscripts in existence from the 1st and 2nd century AD....when many of secular written works of antiquity are used to document WORLD HISTORY....when there are only a handful of original texts in existence.

Do you not think that if a modern translation such as the New American Standard varied from the actual context and subject matter of that which was being translated....SOMEONE WOULD NOT NOTICE A SUPPOSED "PERSONAL OPINION" INSERTED IN PLACE OF THE ORIGINAL CONTEXTUAL CONTENT? Really? Simply because English words are used to relay the original context does not make any valid translation JUST AN OPINION.

Now back to the secular books of antiquity that are used on a daily basis to teach world history to our snowflakes. Compare the number of original scriptural manuscripts of the Holy Bible (some 5800 whole and 13000 partial fragments of original manuscripts that can be and are used to compare any modern translation in relation to the TRUTH found in the originals)......now compare the number of original secular works used to teach our supposed students of HIGHER LEANRING.

Take for instance the historical work "The Annals of Tacitus...the Roman historian" how many original manuscripts exist? 2 in the entire world. Next: The writings of Plato? 7 existing in the entire world

The records of Herodotus? 8. The same number for the works of Thucydides. For instance the Roman author and historian Livy drafted over 140 manuscripts...today only 35 exist in the world.


you get the idea. The secular world does not want to apply the same standards to the demonstrably valid translations of the Holy Bible....but ignore their own 800lb. Gorilla in the room, they have a far less critical standard that validates subject texts taught as truth everyday in the world of Academia. Again....very strange.
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The dominant languages of the day were Greek and Aramaic... not Hebrew. Hebrew wasn't the spoken language after the Babylonian exile.

You have framed the debate as secular versus scripture .. where the intent is to look at the evolution of the religion.
 
iolo said:
I always wonder whether Jesus spoke any other languages than Aramaic. The joke about Peter being the rock on which he will build his Church ( and the subsequent Papal claims) seem to depend on his speaking Greek in quite a usual way, doesn't it?
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I am sure he did.. The Decapolis was far more cosmopolitan and prosperous .. just as Israel was more prospersous than Judah. I think the Greeks (Alexander) conquered Palestine around 332 BC.
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
Again, you either intentionally or unintentionally disregard the point I was making. I'll make it painfully simple. Almost all Xtians use the opinions of others to interpret a chosen passage, so that it says what they want it to say. No matter how much you all claim that the entire tome contains the inerrant words of god, when interpreting bits and pieces, you (group you) rely on human opinions of what those bits really mean. I used Matthew 25:31-46 as an example.

I doubt if very few use Tacitus, Livy, or Plato to validate their religion. lol

I'm done; enjoy your day.
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Again....a legitimate translation uses comparison of the existing 5800 original and 13,000 partial manuscripts of the New Testament and Old to validate the translation. There is no opinion involved, in essence the same message that was being delivered by Peter, John, Paul, Luke, Mark...etc. holds the same contextual integrity as does any modern translation....with the exception of some loosely based Para Phrased translations such as the New Living Bible...etc., where there is no contextual integrity followed whatsoever.

Its a valid historical reality that Jesus himself taught from a Greek Translated version of the Old Law (testament)......the Septuagint Greek Translation which has existed 200-300 years before the Birth of the Christ. Many of the people during and leading up to the time of the Christ did not read Hebrew but used the universal language of the day GREEK which is comparable to the use of English today as a Universal language most taught around the world, as English is the primary language of Business today.

Its best to be informed before laughing and exposing your own ignorance on any given subject. ;) Are there "mistakes" in the bible due to translation? Indeed but they are always found to be TYPEOs instead of some OPINION leading away from the entire contextual integrity of the subject message being delivered, which is always the same regardless of the language its translated to or from as the subject matter and context must always remain intact.

And no the secular world attempts use these works of antiquity (the ones mentioned previously) to validate their "HIGHER LEARNING" skills based upon the religion of Secular Humanism.........:whoa: And as demonstrated THE BILBE has more evidence of textual integrity than all those works put together....that are accepted as a Universal Absolute Truth. You have accomplished nothing other than giving us a demonstration of your ignorance based upon your Intolerance and BIGOTRY toward Christianity. A typical fascist LEFTIST.....the trait of Socialism that demands that their neighbors owe them something for being born HUMAN.
 
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Ralph said:
Again....a legitimate translation uses comparison of the existing 5800 original and 13,000 partial manuscripts of the New Testament and Old to validate the translation. There is no opinion involved, in essence the same message that was being delivered by Peter, John, Paul, Luke, Mark...etc. holds the same contextual integrity as does any modern translation....with the exception of some loosely based Para Phrased translations such as the New Living Bible...etc., where there is no contextual integrity followed whatsoever.

Its a valid historical reality that Jesus himself taught from a Greek Translated version of the Old Law (testament)......the Septuagint Greek Translation which has existed 200-300 years before the Birth of the Christ. Many of the people during and leading up to the time of the Christ did not read Hebrew but used the universal language of the day GREEK which is comparable to the use of English today as a Universal language most taught around the world, as English is the primary language of Business today.

Its best to be informed before laughing and exposing your own ignorance on any given subject. ;) Are there "mistakes" in the bible due to translation? Indeed but they are always found to be TYPEOs instead of some OPINION leading away from the entire contextual integrity of the subject message being delivered, which is always the same regardless of the language its translated to or from as the subject matter and context must always remain intact.

And no the secular world attempts use these works of antiquity (the ones mentioned previously) to validate their "HIGHER LEARNING" skills based upon the religion of Secular Humanism.........:whoa: And as demonstrated THE BILBE has more evidence of textual integrity than all those works put together....that are accepted as a Universal Absolute Truth. You have accomplished nothing other than giving us a demonstration of your ignorance based upon your Intolerance and BIGOTRY toward Christianity. A typical fascist LEFTIST.....the trait of Socialism that demands that their neighbors owe them something for being born HUMAN.
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It sounds as though you're more eager to prove the Bible translation shit and your own alleged '"HIGHER LEARNING" skills' = you are right and everyone else is wrong, than you are in discussing the points I made in my post.

Again, I'm done. Enjoy your life.
 
Ralph said:
Quote Originally Posted by ThatOwlWoman View Post
Unless the person using the Bible to prove some point can read the original languages in which it was written,
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easy enough....

Hebrew interlinear....
http://biblehub.com/interlinear/

Greek interlinear....
https://www.logosapostolic.org/bibles/interlinear_nt.htm

don't be afraid, just do it....

So then the interpretation by others gets hauled out to "prove" that you're not saved by good works despite Jesus's own words saying just that.
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its a shame you fell for kudzu's bullshit......the simple truth is that everything he has posted here is wrong, intentionally so......
 
Ralph said:
Again....a legitimate translation uses comparison of the existing 5800 original and 13,000 partial manuscripts of the New Testament and Old to validate the translation. There is no opinion involved, in essence the same message that was being delivered by Peter, John, Paul, Luke, Mark...etc. holds the same contextual integrity as does any modern translation....with the exception of some loosely based Para Phrased translations such as the New Living Bible...etc., where there is no contextual integrity followed whatsoever.

Its a valid historical reality that Jesus himself taught from a Greek Translated version of the Old Law (testament)......the Septuagint Greek Translation which has existed 200-300 years before the Birth of the Christ. Many of the people during and leading up to the time of the Christ did not read Hebrew but used the universal language of the day GREEK which is comparable to the use of English today as a Universal language most taught around the world, as English is the primary language of Business today.

Its best to be informed before laughing and exposing your own ignorance on any given subject. ;) Are there "mistakes" in the bible due to translation? Indeed but they are always found to be TYPEOs instead of some OPINION leading away from the entire contextual integrity of the subject message being delivered, which is always the same regardless of the language its translated to or from as the subject matter and context must always remain intact.

And no the secular world attempts use these works of antiquity (the ones mentioned previously) to validate their "HIGHER LEARNING" skills based upon the religion of Secular Humanism.........:whoa: And as demonstrated THE BILBE has more evidence of textual integrity than all those works put together....that are accepted as a Universal Absolute Truth. You have accomplished nothing other than giving us a demonstration of your ignorance based upon your Intolerance and BIGOTRY toward Christianity. A typical fascist LEFTIST.....the trait of Socialism that demands that their neighbors owe them something for being born HUMAN.
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Anyone who considers the teachings of Jesus to be valuable...whether Christian or not...who has an opinion of socialism that even comes close to yours...is a fool.

You are all words...and no knowledge, Ralph. Jesus was closer to a communist than a capitalist...and if he had lived today would almost certainly have been a socialist.

If your opinion of the textural aspects of the Bible are as perverse as your opinion of socialism (and I think they are)...your opinion is not truly worth consideration.
 
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ThatOwlWoman said:
It sounds as though you're more eager to prove the Bible translation shit and your own alleged '"HIGHER LEARNING" skills' = you are right and everyone else is wrong, than you are in discussing the points I made in my post.

Again, I'm done. Enjoy your life.
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Definition of ralph: "to throw up, to lurch". how appropriate
 
Ralph said:
Again....a legitimate translation uses comparison of the existing 5800 original and 13,000 partial manuscripts of the New Testament and Old to validate the translation. There is no opinion involved, in essence the same message that was being delivered by Peter, John, Paul, Luke, Mark...etc. holds the same contextual integrity as does any modern translation....with the exception of some loosely based Para Phrased translations such as the New Living Bible...etc., where there is no contextual integrity followed whatsoever.

Its a valid historical reality that Jesus himself taught from a Greek Translated version of the Old Law (testament)......the Septuagint Greek Translation which has existed 200-300 years before the Birth of the Christ. Many of the people during and leading up to the time of the Christ did not read Hebrew but used the universal language of the day GREEK which is comparable to the use of English today as a Universal language most taught around the world, as English is the primary language of Business today.

Its best to be informed before laughing and exposing your own ignorance on any given subject. ;) Are there "mistakes" in the bible due to translation? Indeed but they are always found to be TYPEOs instead of some OPINION leading away from the entire contextual integrity of the subject message being delivered, which is always the same regardless of the language its translated to or from as the subject matter and context must always remain intact.

And no the secular world attempts use these works of antiquity (the ones mentioned previously) to validate their "HIGHER LEARNING" skills based upon the religion of Secular Humanism.........:whoa: And as demonstrated THE BILBE has more evidence of textual integrity than all those works put together....that are accepted as a Universal Absolute Truth. You have accomplished nothing other than giving us a demonstration of your ignorance based upon your Intolerance and BIGOTRY toward Christianity. A typical fascist LEFTIST.....the trait of Socialism that demands that their neighbors owe them something for being born HUMAN.
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Jesus read Greek scrolls yet never wrote a thing down. How do you know this "historical reality"?

Greek was the language of commerce.. Aramaic was the lingua franca.
 
kudzu said:
Jesus read Greek scrolls yet never wrote a thing down. How do you know this "historical reality"?

Greek was the language of commerce.. Aramaic was the lingua franca.
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odd.....I've never thought of it but I expect an omniscient God would have no problem with any language out there......as I recall at the age of 12 he amazed the elders at the synagogue in Jerusalem with his knowledge of the torah........that would, of course, mean fluency in Hebrew.........as for Greek, I expect the average person knew both Greek and Aramaic at the time......
 
Frank Apisa said:
Anyone who considers the teachings of Jesus to be valuable...whether Christian or not...who has an opinion of socialism that even comes close to yours...is a fool.
You are all words...and no knowledge, Ralph. Jesus was closer to a communist than a capitalist...and if he had lived today would almost certainly have been a socialist.
If your opinion of the textural aspects of the Bible are as perverse as your opinion of socialism (and I think they are)...your opinion is not truly worth consideration.
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Why do so many supposedly devout Xtians act like Ralph? They claim to worship a god "who so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son," and which son commanded his followers to "love thy neighbor as thyself," yet they seem to hate half the ppl in said world.

If Jesus returned tomorrow with the exact same message as before, accompanied by all the signs and wonders depicted in the Bible, they'd turn their backs or throw stones (or bullets from their ARs).
 
PostmodernProphet said:
getting rid of false gods isn't evolution...unless you are thinking of survival the the One Fit God.........
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The Canaanite pantheon is pretty interesting.

Like other people of the Ancient Near East Canaanite religious beliefs were polytheistic, with families typically focusing on veneration of the dead in the form of household gods and goddesses, the Elohim, while acknowledging the existence of other deities such as Baal and El, Asherah and Astarte.

The Gods and Goddesses of Canaan | Essay | Heilbrunn Timeline of ...



https://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/cana/hd_cana.htm




by I Spar - ‎Related articles
Ugaritic mythological tablets describe the activities of the main gods and goddesses of the Canaanite pantheon. Although there existed no single state theology, the major gods reflect local geographical concerns about the fertility of the earth and the importance of water as well as relationships to the sky and the underworld.



It must have taken a long, long time to become monotheism.. 4000 Asherah statuettes have been found in Jerusalem. Women worshipped them re: childbearing.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
odd.....I've never thought of it but I expect an omniscient God would have no problem with any language out there......as I recall at the age of 12 he amazed the elders at the synagogue in Jerusalem with his knowledge of the torah........that would, of course, mean fluency in Hebrew.........as for Greek, I expect the average person knew both Greek and Aramaic at the time......
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In many ways ancient Hebrew was quite limited.

The Philosophy of the Hebrew Language - Ancient Hebrew Research ...



www.ancient-hebrew.org/language_philosophy.html






The language of the Hebrews is a concrete language, meaning that it uses words that express something that can be seen, touched, smelled, tasted or heard and ... work, Hebrew thought compared with Greek, states; "The thinking of the Old Testament is primitive and hence can be compared only with the thinking of other ...
 
PostmodernProphet said:
not sure why you bothered to post a list of false gods.......is this another effort to post a facade of relevancy?........
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Monotheism evolved from the Canaanite pantheon of gods.. Early on every tribe had their own god which they carried from place to place on a litter...
 
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