Scientism

evince said:
I can sit in my back yard and look at things and imagine differing designs for what to plant


what to create

Trellises

Pathways


Seating areas


I love looking at things around me and imagining what alternate uses things could have no matter where I am


It’s amazing what one can do with things people will just discard


That kind of non stop thinking
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That sounds like focused and purposeful thinking to me.

It doesn't sound like a meat puppet waiting around for random thoughts to bubble up from the subconscious.
 
Doc Dutch said:
A mind filled with "white noise" can also be described as a "racing mind". It can be an anxiety order or OCD if it happens too much.

Mental disorders impede Free Will just like having a broken leg impedes one's ability to walk. LOL

https://www.healthline.com/health/racing-thoughts
Racing Thoughts: What to Do When Your Mind Is Racing
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I don't think I would like to have a racing mind.

Certain kinds of Buddhists train themselves to let the mind go blank and just be in the moment.

I don't do a lot of daydreaming or sitting around waiting for random thoughts to bubble up. I am pretty good at compartmentalizing, and I feel like my thinking tends to be focused and purposeful. Even when I am just enjoying the aesthetics of an ocean sunset or watching a movie, my mind tends to be in the moment rather than wandering off
 
BidenPresident said:
Minds wander. Yet you organized your thought into two paragraphs.
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It's true that minds wander. In other words, we can be easily distracted by the constant steam of thoughts that our brain pushes into consciousness. We've all been trying to work, but find ourselves distracted by thoughts of an argument with our spouse or kids, important things we have to do after work, etc.

As far as my paragraphs go, part of the brain sculpting, that has happened for both of us, is an understanding of the English language and structuring of written thought. Consider this.....if you truly control your thoughts, are you able to use your free will to not understand something that you do understand like the English language? Are you free to want something you don't want? Do you want to learn to play the violin or learn to speak Portuguese? If not, can you use your free will to want to learn both?
 
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Cypress said:
Right. This seems self evident. Whatever random thoughts bubble up through the subconscious, we have a choice on how or if to act on them.

To some extent, I question the notion that our minds are constantly filled with white noise. I don't feel like I spend a lot of time daydreaming. My mind is usually focused on something. Or when I am relaxing and watching a sunset, a movie, or birdwatching I feel like I can usually keep my mind fairly blank and just live in the moment.
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Let's say you have a thought to truly hurt someone or even kill them. The process of deciding to act or not act is the result of subsequent thoughts, isn't it? Have you ever said something hurtful that you later wished you didn't say? If you have, I would ask why you didn't use your free will, in that moment, to not say it.

White noise isn't always synonymous with day dreaming, but we've all been distracted by our thoughts. It could be at a movie, watching TV, listening to someone speaking in a meeting, etc. To some degree, sometimes less; sometimes more, we are always trying to fight off thoughts that distract us.
 
Cypress said:
I don't think I would like to have a racing mind.

Certain kinds of Buddhists train themselves to let the mind go blank and just be in the moment.

I don't do a lot of daydreaming or sitting around waiting for random thoughts to bubble up. I am pretty good at compartmentalizing, and I feel like my thinking tends to be focused and purposeful. Even when I am just enjoying the aesthetics of an ocean sunset or watching a movie, my mind tends to be in the moment rather than wandering off
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Some jobs require "waiting for random thoughts to bubble up" such as writers and brain-storming meetings. Coming up with ideas is one thing, but implementing them is the harder part.

A racing mind is an anxiety disorder. Too much of a good thing. LOL Leaning to control it is like the Buddhists you mentioned; breathing exercises, mindfulness (meaning "no mind"). A racing mind thinks ahead and thinks about possibilities or about past experiences. A racing mind isn't in the present; it's either in the future or in the past. Mindfulness is in the present.

https://www.mindful.org/meditation/mindfulness-getting-started/
Mindfulness is the basic human ability to be fully present, aware of where we are and what we’re doing, and not overly reactive or overwhelmed by what’s going on around us.

While mindfulness is something we all naturally possess, it’s more readily available to us when we practice on a daily basis.
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ZenMode said:
Let's say you have a thought to truly hurt someone or even kill them. The process of deciding to act or not act is the result of subsequent thoughts, isn't it? Have you ever said something hurtful that you later wished you didn't say? If you have, I would ask why you didn't use your free will, in that moment, to not say it.

White noise isn't always synonymous with day dreaming, but we've all been distracted by our thoughts. It could be at a movie, watching TV, listening to someone speaking in a meeting, etc. To some degree, sometimes less; sometimes more, we are always trying to fight off thoughts that distract us.
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I agree that random thoughts bubble up.

I have never fantasized about murdering anyone.

Punching someone in the face has crossed my mind.

I actually don't get to twisted up in the debate about free will. For one thing, I don't think it's a scientific question. And as a philosophical question, I think free will is such a fuzzy and nebulous term it doesn't lend itself to any kind of rigorous analytical contemplation.
 
ZenMode said:
Let's say you have a thought to truly hurt someone or even kill them. The process of deciding to act or not act is the result of subsequent thoughts, isn't it? Have you ever said something hurtful that you later wished you didn't say? If you have, I would ask why you didn't use your free will, in that moment, to not say it.

White noise isn't always synonymous with day dreaming, but we've all been distracted by our thoughts. It could be at a movie, watching TV, listening to someone speaking in a meeting, etc. To some degree, sometimes less; sometimes more, we are always trying to fight off thoughts that distract us.
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Still Free Will. The impulse to say something or the thought to kill someone is emotional, our animalistic nature. It's our forebrain, our conscience that is the vessel of Free Will. The place, if the individual chooses to allow it, where reason and choice takes place. Some people are just stupid or, due to mental illness, irrational meaning their emotions are in control. People who lack impulse control are either irrational or simply undisciplined. The former requires medical treatment, the latter training.

White noise is a calming technique for people. It can also help with racing minds or other disorders.
 
Doc Dutch said:
Some jobs require "waiting for random thoughts to bubble up" such as writers and brain-storming meetings. Coming up with ideas is one thing, but implementing them is the harder part.

A racing mind is an anxiety disorder. Too much of a good thing. LOL Leaning to control it is like the Buddhists you mentioned; breathing exercises, mindfulness (meaning "no mind"). A racing mind thinks ahead and thinks about possibilities or about past experiences. A racing mind isn't in the present; it's either in the future or in the past. Mindfulness is in the present.

https://www.mindful.org/meditation/mindfulness-getting-started/
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I tend to think of idea generation as focused thinking. It seems like my mind is exploring my experiences and areas of expertise when trying to devise an approach to a problem.


I think inspiration is a real thing which can be accessed by artists, writers, composers.

I mentioned inspiration, intuition, imagination, creative genius earlier in the thread as an example of why I don't think science provides answers to all things; or that it is the final and definitive arbiter of human experience.
 
Cypress said:
I agree that random thoughts bubble up.

I have never fantasized about murdering anyone.

Punching someone in the face has crossed my mind.

I actually don't get to twisted up in the debate about free will. For one thing, I don't think it's a scientific question. And as a philosophical question, I think free will is such a fuzzy and nebulous term it doesn't lend itself to any kind of rigorous analytical contemplation.
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Free will, in my opinion, most definitely is a scientific question. There are neurological realities that render free will impossible. We don't have the ability to control our thoughts, we don't know what we're going to think next and we are powerless to stop our next thought, yet all of those thoughts, that we have no control over, literally determine our every conscious action. I hate to keep beating the same horse, but if I ask you to think of a movie are you free to pick a movie name if your brain doesn't push that specific name into your consciousness?
 
Doc Dutch said:
Still Free Will. The impulse to say something or the thought to kill someone is emotional, our animalistic nature. It's our forebrain, our conscience that is the vessel of Free Will. The place, if the individual chooses to allow it, where reason and choice takes place. Some people are just stupid or, due to mental illness, irrational meaning their emotions are in control. People who lack impulse control are either irrational or simply undisciplined. The former requires medical treatment, the latter training.

White noise is a calming technique for people. It can also help with racing minds or other disorders.
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Have you ever said something to someone that you later regretted?
 
Cypress said:
I tend to think of idea generation as focused thinking. It seems like my mind is exploring my experiences and areas of expertise when trying to devise an approach to a problem.


I think inspiration is a real thing which can be accessed by artists, writers, composers.

I mentioned inspiration, intuition, imagination, creative genius earlier in the thread as an example of why I don't think science provides answers to all things; or that it is the final and definitive arbiter of human experience.
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That's reasoning. Synthesizing experiences and ideas. Idea generation is a right brain activity; more of a subconscious thing. The inspiration you mentioned.

Inspiration, like muscles or skills, can be developed. Western ideology works hard to let that atrophy because it's illogical, non-linear. Eastern philosophy teaches that it's part of us.
 
ZenMode said:
Have you ever said something to someone that you later regretted?
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Lots of times. Mostly in my youth and almost always when I was pissed off. Sometimes it was just being insensitive and arrogant. Good thing I've outgrown all of that, eh? LOL
 
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