Scientism

ZenMode said:
At the point that you had the thoughts to Rob a store, could you have prevented that thought from arising in your consciousness?
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No. In the scenario you drew, I'd be looking for ways to make money. Robbing a store is low hanging fruit.

Why did you dodge my questions when I've been answering yours? Did you rob a store and now need a way out?
 
Doc Dutch said:
No. In the scenario you drew, I'd be looking for ways to make money. Robbing a store is low hanging fruit.

Why did you dodge my questions when I've been answering yours? Did you rob a store and now need a way out?
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Why couldn't you have used your free will to prevent the thought of robbing a store from coming to mind?

And no, I have not robbed any person or any store.
 
ZenMode said:
Why couldn't you have used your free will to prevent the thought of robbing a store from coming to mind?

And no, I have not robbed any person or any store.
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The fact you are not able to keep up with my responses or are deliberately avoiding them is one thing. The fact you keep dodging my questions is also interesting.

Do you have any other accounts on JPP?
 
Doc Dutch said:
The fact you are not able to keep up with my responses or are deliberately avoiding them is one thing. The fact you keep dodging my questions is also interesting.

Do you have any other accounts on JPP?
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I trying to keep up with your responses, but the responses you're giving, from my point of view, aren't answers that complete the point I'm trying to make.

Given that there are other legal options for getting money quickly, could you have used your free will to only consider those options and keep robbing a store from coming to mind?

For the sake of making SOME money quickly, could you have prevented the thought of incarceration from entering your consciousness and, in doing so, possibly allow yourself to move forward with a robbery?

I have one account and it's this one.
 
BidenPresident said:
I must be missing your thesis. You believe we are all automatons and some mysterious physical force is making us act?
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I believe, as I've said a few times, that our thoughts determine nearly every action we take, but we have no ability to prevent a thought from coming to mind, so free will is impossible.
 
ZenMode said:
I trying to keep up with your responses, but the responses you're giving, from my point of view, aren't answers that complete the point I'm trying to make.

Given that there are other legal options for getting money quickly, could you have used your free will to only consider those options and keep robbing a store from coming to mind?

For the sake of making SOME money quickly, could you have prevented the thought of incarceration from entering your consciousness and, in doing so, possibly allow yourself to move forward with a robbery?

I have one account and it's this one.
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No worries since you and I aren’t talking privately to one another; we’re conversing in an open forum where meat robots are free not to think anything and people with Free Will can make up their own minds. :)

If someone keeps thinking of robbing a store or murder as a means to solve their problems then they are either stupid or mentally ill.

Again, if the only solution a person has for their money problems is to rob a store, then they are stupid or mentally ill. Do they have Free Will? IDK, but the law will hold them accountable for their actions as if they did have Free Will….if they aren’t shot dead in the process of robbing someone.

Thanks on the account. Me too.
 
ZenMode said:
I believe, as I've said a few times, that our thoughts determine nearly every action we take, but we have no ability to prevent a thought from coming to mind, so free will is impossible.
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Good luck in prison. Don’t fall for the “drop the soap” trick like some of the WSE militia guys have done. :thup:
 
Doc Dutch said:
No worries since you and I aren’t talking privately to one another; we’re conversing in an open forum where meat robots are free not to think anything and people with Free Will can make up their own minds. :)

If someone keeps thinking of robbing a store or murder as a means to solve their problems then they are either stupid or mentally ill.
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Maybe or they're just desperate. Either way, it's not possible to stop the thought from entering your consciousness.
Again, if the only solution a person has for their money problems is to rob a store, then they are stupid or mentally ill. Do they have Free Will? IDK, but the law will hold them accountable for their actions as if they did have Free Will….if they aren’t shot dead in the process of robbing someone.
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There's no connection between the illusion of free will and being held legally accountable.
Thanks on the account. Me too.
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Sure. I'm not entirely sure where the question came from, but you had no choice but to ask the question, anyway!

Just like you, nor anyone else, can't prevent a thought considering robbing a store from entering your mind, the subsequent thoughts, that would lead to a decision to rob or not to rob, are also out of your control.

I'm sure legal consequences, as long as you're aware of them, would factor into your decision.
 
BidenPresident said:
So free will is impossible. Now what?
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Now we look at people differently. We look at them as a byproduct of their life experiences and we don't "hate" them any more than we'd hate a bear who tore our hand off or a tornado that destroyed our house.

If you're a parent, you look at the misbehavior of your kids differently... or at least I did.
 
ZenMode said:
Now we look at people differently. We look at them as a byproduct of their life experiences and we don't "hate" them any more than we'd hate a bear who tore our hand off or a tornado that destroyed our house.

If you're a parent, you look at the misbehavior of your kids differently... or at least I did.
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I do not see the connection to ethics.
 
Doc Dutch said:
Do you have to have Free Will to be desperate? Can animals or meat robots have hope?

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/desperate
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The first thing to note, is that there is no self that is "you". There's no separate part of your brain that exists outside your stream of consciousness. The feeling of a self is just what it's like to experience your stream of consciousness. That fact is really the basis for the impossibility of free will - there is no separate self that exists outside of your stream of consciousness. "You" are equal to the stream. There is no thinker of thoughts - there are only thoughts.

So, "you" aren't desperate because there is no you to be desperate.
 
BidenPresident said:
I still do not see the connection.
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If you were attacked by a bear and lost your hand, would you hate the bear in the same way that you'd hate an axe-wielding person who cut off your hand? If you believe in free will, then you'd hate the person because you imagine that they had a choice to behave how they did. In the case of the bear, you'd probably think "Well, a bear is just going to be a bear!"
 
Doc Dutch said:
Aren't ethics a human construct? Therefore they'd change as humans evolve both physically and socially?
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The source of ethics and morality is a much bigger conversation but, yes, our understanding of ethics does change as we not only evolve but mature from birth.
 
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