Scientism

[Cypress]

The problem with scientism is similar to the problem Ayne Rands philosophy of objectivism. It isn’t Objective.

Not coincidentally Scientism isn’t scientific as it attempts to explain phenomena that are outside the limitations of science so it is thus not scientific.

Well said. I believe Tolstoy, Confucious, Michelangelo learned something deeply profound about beauty, truth, and wisdom without ever having to use integral calculus or particle accelerators.

 

[BidenPresident]

Scepticism and Scientism

In the field of epistemology, there are two notable authors whose ideas have significantly impacted the question of the justification of scientific knowledge.

The second author is Ludwig Wittgenstein.
The structure of “Philosophical Investigations” (1953) is:

P1: The meaning of words is determined by their use in specific contexts.

P2: Knowledge is only possible using language.

P3: The comprehension of languages derives from social activity.

C1: Language is inherently contextual.

C2: There are no universal criteria for knowledge.

https://epochemagazine.org/63/scept...of-new-principles-in-the-theory-of-knowledge/

 

[Cypress]

In the field of epistemology, there are two notable authors whose ideas have significantly impacted the question of the justification of scientific knowledge.

The second author is Ludwig Wittgenstein.
The structure of “Philosophical Investigations” (1953) is:

P1: The meaning of words is determined by their use in specific contexts.

P2: Knowledge is only possible using language.

P3: The comprehension of languages derives from social activity.

C1: Language is inherently contextual.

C2: There are no universal criteria for knowledge.

https://epochemagazine.org/63/scept...of-new-principles-in-the-theory-of-knowledge/

I used to think Euclidean geometry escaped Wittgenstein's critique of true knowledge, but I'm not sure anymore. I'd have to research it. Euclidean geometry is based on a set of axioms that are narrative, and while they are claimed to be self evident, they neccesarily are really just postulates or assumptions.

 

[BidenPresident]

I used to think Euclidean geometry escaped Wittgenstein's critique of true knowledge, but I'm not sure anymore. I'd have to research it. Euclidean geometry is based on a set of axioms that are narrative, and while they are claimed to be self evident, they neccesarily are really just postulates or assumptions.

Yes, axioms are just first principles and to not have to be self evident.

 

[Cypress]

Yes, axioms are just first principles and to not have to be self evident.

Euclid's axioms seemed secure for 2000 years.
But it turns out that it's not universally true two parallel lines can never meet, or that the angles of all triangles have to add to 180 degrees.

 

[BidenPresident]

Euclid's axioms seemed secure for 2000 years.
But it turns out that it's not universally true two parallel lines can never meet, or that the angles of all triangles have to add to 180 degrees.

Indeed, yes.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Euclid's axioms seemed secure for 2000 years.
But it turns out that it's not universally true two parallel lines can never meet, or that the angles of all triangles have to add to 180 degrees.

Is that in the human sense or the Universe at large sense? LOL

Not a mathematician by a longshit, but the definition of parallel lines is that they never meet.
https://www.storyofmathematics.com/parallel-lines/
Parallel lines are lines that are lying on the same plane but will never meet.

https://www.mathsisfun.com/proof180deg.html

In a triangle, the three interior angles always add to 180°:
A + B + C = 180°

 

[Cypress]

Is that in the human sense or the Universe at large sense? LOL

Not a mathematician by a longshit, but the definition of parallel lines is that they never meet.
https://www.storyofmathematics.com/parallel-lines/
Parallel lines are lines that are lying on the same plane but will never meet.

https://www.mathsisfun.com/proof180deg.html

In a triangle, the three interior angles always add to 180°:
A + B + C = 180°

That's true for Euclidian space, aka flat space.

In hyperbolic space or spherical space, Euclid's axioms for triangles and lines don't work. Parallel lines don't stay equidistant, and angles of triangles don't add to 180 degrees. The shortest distance between two points is a straight line only works in Euclidean space.

I think the reason Euclid wasn't challenged for 2000 years is because our minds are not evolved to really think in terms of curved space.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

That's true for Euclidian space, aka flat space.

In hyperbolic space or spherical space, Euclid's axioms for triangles and lines don't work. Parallel lines don't stay equidistant, and angles of triangles don't add to 180 degrees.

I think the reason Euclid wasn't challenged for 2000 years is because our minds are not evolved to really think in terms of curved space.

Don't we perceive the world as Euclidian? If I'm trying to determine the height of a flagpole using its shadow and measuring the shadow length and angle, won't the calculations come out the same as long as the length of the flagpole's shadow and angle remains the same?

 

[Cypress]

Don't we perceive the world as Euclidian? If I'm trying to determine the height of a flagpole using its shadow and measuring the shadow length and angle, won't the calculations come out the same as long as the length of the flagpole's shadow and angle remains the same?

From our limited scale of human perception, spatial relationships appear to be Euclidean.

But we live on a sphere. The shortest distance between two points on Earth is not a straight line, but the arc of a great circle. It's not noticable to us until the points are widely spaced by hundreds or thousands of kilometers.

General relativity dictates that space is curved in the presence of mass. Near black holes and neutron stars, the gravity is so intense, that spatial relationships must deviate substantially away from Euclidian axioms.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

From our limited scale of human perception, spatial relationships appear to be Euclidean.

But we live on a sphere. The shortest distance between two points on Earth is not a straight line, but the arc of a great circle.

General relativity dictates that space is curved in the presence of mass. Near black holes and neutron stars, the gravity is so intense, that spatial relationships must deviate substantially away from Euclidian axioms.

The Earth isn't flat?!! OMG! LOL It's because the Earth is round and Mercator projection maps are flat that the racist fuckwits have a distorted view of our nation's size relative to Africa. I think perception is very important to understanding why people are the way they are.

Understood about how Time/Space changes around intense gravity. The NASA experiments with the Kelly twins was looking at those aspects.

https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/...udy-reveals-resilience-of-human-body-in-space

Results from NASA’s landmark Twins Study, which took place from 2015-2016, were published Thursday in Science. The integrated paper — encompassing work from 10 research teams — reveals some interesting, surprising and reassuring data about how one human body adapted to — and recovered from — the extreme environment of space.

The Twins Study provides the first integrated biomolecular view into how the human body responds to the spaceflight environment, and serves as a genomic stepping stone to better understand how to maintain crew health during human expeditions to the Moon and Mars.

Retired NASA astronauts Scott Kelly and his identical twin brother Mark, participated in the investigation, conducted by NASA’s Human Research Program. Mark provided a baseline for observation on Earth, and Scott provided a comparable test case during the 340 days he spent in space aboard the International Space Station for Expeditions 43, 44, 45 and 46. Scott Kelly became the first American astronaut to spend nearly a year in space.

“The Twins Study has been an important step toward understanding epigenetics and gene expression in human spaceflight,” said J.D. Polk, chief Health and Medical Officer at NASA Headquarters. “Thanks to the twin brothers and a cadre of investigators who worked tirelessly together, the valuable data gathered from the Twins Study has helped inform the need for personalized medicine and its role in keeping astronauts healthy during deep space exploration, as NASA goes forward to the Moon and journeys onward to Mars.”

 

[Dutch Uncle]

 

[Cypress]

The Earth isn't flat?!! OMG! LOL It's because the Earth is round and Mercator projection maps are flat that the racist fuckwits have a distorted view of our nation's size relative to Africa. I think perception is very important to understanding why people are the way they are.



Understood about how Time/Space changes around intense gravity. The NASA experiments with the Kelly twins was looking at those aspects.

https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/...udy-reveals-resilience-of-human-body-in-space

I used to never understood why intercontinental flight paths take curved routes when projected on a flat map, until I learned that the shortest distance between two points on a sphere is not a direct azimuthal line, but it's following the curve of the arc of a great circle.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I used to never understood why intercontinental flight paths take curved routes when projected on a flat map, until I learned that the shortest distance between two points on a sphere is not a direct azimuthal line, but it's following the curve of the arc of a great circle.

More schools should have globes instead of roll up maps. Note the 900 mile difference between the rhumb line and "direct" is about the same distance as between NY and Jacksonville, FL. Quite a savings in both flying time and fuel.

https://i2itm.blogspot.com/2021/06/what-we-perceived-as-short-distance-is.html

 

[Cypress]

More schools should have globes instead of roll up maps. Note the 900 mile difference between the rhumb line and "direct" is about the same distance as between NY and Jacksonville, FL. Quite a savings in both flying time and fuel.

https://i2itm.blogspot.com/2021/06/what-we-perceived-as-short-distance-is.html

It's all about the economics, chap! : )

I used to think if you knew the compass direction from New York to Paris, all you had to do was follow that compass azimuth. But that's not the shortest route. Thinking in non-Euclidean geometry made me realize the great circle on the spheroid is the shortest path. It took me 40 years to grasp that!

 

[Into the Night]

And what about the things science can’t explain?

Do you just ignore them?

Science will never explain the entire universe. We already HAVE an entire universe.

 

[Into the Night]

Most of the world has nothing to do with science.

Science is a set of falsifiable theories. They always apply, everywhere in the world and everywhere in the known universe.

 

[Into the Night]

As with most religions WOKE has a massive animosity towards science, but that certainly has not stopped them from wrapping their religion in sciency jargon when they see manipulative profit in it.

Quite true.

 

[Into the Night]

That's the wrong question.

Most of human experience, knowledge, and wisdom doesn't depend on science at all.

In everyday life, the average person couldn't give a rats ass about quarks, Higgs fields, or string theory. There are no mathmatical equations or lab experiments which are going to define freedom, equality, justice, fairness, humility, moral virtue. That's why we need intuition, contemplation, and imagination as much as we need particle accelerators and differential equations.

Particle accelerators are not science. Neither are differential equations. Science is not a lab.

 

[Into the Night]

I used to think Euclidean geometry escaped Wittgenstein's critique of true knowledge, but I'm not sure anymore. I'd have to research it. Euclidean geometry is based on a set of axioms that are narrative, and while they are claimed to be self evident, they neccesarily are really just postulates or assumptions.

Axioms are not postulates or 'assumptions'. Axioms are the founding rules of a closed system such as mathematics or logic.