Scientism

[Into the Night]

Yes, axioms are just first principles and to not have to be self evident.

They are self evident because they are the founding rules of a closed system such as mathematics or logic.

 

[Into the Night]

Euclid's axioms seemed secure for 2000 years.
But it turns out that it's not universally true two parallel lines can never meet, or that the angles of all triangles have to add to 180 degrees.

Two parallel lines can never meet.
All triangles add up to 180 degrees.

 

[Into the Night]

That's true for Euclidian space, aka flat space.

In hyperbolic space or spherical space, Euclid's axioms for triangles and lines don't work. Parallel lines don't stay equidistant, and angles of triangles don't add to 180 degrees. The shortest distance between two points is a straight line only works in Euclidean space.

I think the reason Euclid wasn't challenged for 2000 years is because our minds are not evolved to really think in terms of curved space.

A curved 'line' is not a line.
A curved 'triangle' is not a triangle.

 

[Into the Night]

From our limited scale of human perception, spatial relationships appear to be Euclidean.

But we live on a sphere. The shortest distance between two points on Earth is not a straight line, but the arc of a great circle. It's not noticable to us until the points are widely spaced by hundreds or thousands of kilometers.

General relativity dictates that space is curved in the presence of mass. Near black holes and neutron stars, the gravity is so intense, that spatial relationships must deviate substantially away from Euclidian axioms.

Arcs are not lines.

 

[Into the Night]

I used to never understood why intercontinental flight paths take curved routes when projected on a flat map, until I learned that the shortest distance between two points on a sphere is not a direct azimuthal line, but it's following the curve of the arc of a great circle.

An arc is not a line.

 

[Into the Night]

It's all about the economics, chap! : )

I used to think if you knew the compass direction from New York to Paris, all you had to do was follow that compass azimuth. But that's not the shortest route. Thinking in non-Euclidean geometry made me realize the great circle on the spheroid is the shortest path. It took me 40 years to grasp that!

It took you 40 years apparently to grasp that maps of a sphere represented on flat surface are inaccurate.

 

[Lightbringer]

An arc is not a line.

He's right and you're not.

 

[Into the Night]

He's right and you're not.

He is trying to call an arc a line. An arc is not a line.

 

[Lightbringer]

He is trying to call an arc a line. An arc is not a line.

Bulverism!!!!!!

 

[BidenPresident]

They are self evident because they are the founding rules of a closed system such as mathematics or logic.

Not self evidently true. Just starting principles.

 

[BidenPresident]

Science is a set of falsifiable theories.

What if they are, so what?

 

[Lightbringer]

Not self evidently true. Just starting principles.

He's wrong...but so are you.

 

[Cypress]

Two parallel lines can never meet!
All triangles add up to 180 degrees!

I am not surprised you have never heard off non-Euclidean geometry.

Bulverism
Argument from ignorance fallacy
Fallacy 36b.

Two parallel lines can never meet!
All triangles add up to 180 degrees!

Wave-Particle duality is classical physics.

There is no such thing as an accelerating reference frame!!

There is no such thing as an 'accelerating frame of reference'.

Darwin's theory of evolution is not science

Bulverism fallacy. Bigotry.

Bulverism. Bigotry. False Authority.

bigotry, bulverism

 

[Cypress]

It took you 40 years apparently to grasp that maps of a sphere represented on flat surface are inaccurate.

That's not what I wrote.
I wrote that the shortest distance on a sphere is not a straight azimuthal compass direction, but following the arc of the great circle between two points on the Earth.

You wouldn't even know an arc of a great circle on a sphere was without frantically googling.

 

[Cypress]

Axioms are not postulates or 'assumptions'!!

Cambridge Dictionary:

Axiom: a statement or principle that is generally accepted to be true, but need not be so.
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/axiom

"An axiom, postulate, or assumption is a statement that is taken to be true, to serve as a premise or starting point for further reasoning and arguments." - Wikipedia

Axioms are not postulates

Two parallel lines can never meet!
All triangles add up to 180 degrees!

Wave-Particle duality is classical physics.

There is no such thing as an accelerating reference frame!!

There is no such thing as an 'accelerating frame of reference'.

Darwin's theory of evolution is not science

Bulverism fallacy. Bigotry.

Bulverism. Bigotry. False Authority.

bigotry, bulverism

 

[Cypress]

A curved 'line' is not a line.
A curved 'triangle' is not a triangle.

Since you never made it past 10th grade geometry, it's not surprising your mind can only concieve of flat Euclidean space.

If you made a triangle between Vancouver, Honolulu, Mexico City, the angles would add up to more than 180 degrees.


Flat sheets of paper in your ninth grade geometry class are not the only kind of spatial relationship out there.

Axioms are not postulates

Two parallel lines can never meet!
All triangles add up to 180 degrees!

Wave-Particle duality is classical physics.

There is no such thing as an accelerating reference frame!!

There is no such thing as an 'accelerating frame of reference'.

Darwin's theory of evolution is not science

Bulverism fallacy. Bigotry.

Bulverism. Bigotry. False Authority.

bigotry, bulverism

 

[Dutch Uncle]

That's not what I wrote.
I wrote that the shortest distance on a sphere is not a straight azimuthal compass direction, but following the arc of the great circle between two points on the Earth.

You wouldn't even know an arc of a great circle on a sphere was without frantically googling.

You're arguing with an irrational liar. Everyone can read your post and anyone who pays attention to Sybil knows he's a liar and probably insane.

 

[Cypress]

You're arguing with an irrational liar. Everyone can read your post and anyone who pays attention to Sybil knows he's a liar and probably insane.

I think it's not just about being a liars, but also just being stupid with multiple personality disorder. I am convinced Into The Bulverism is a sock puppet of IBDumbass

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I think it's not just about being a liars, but also just being stupid with multiple personality disorder. I am convinced Into The Bulverism is a sock puppet of IBDumbass

...and gfm7175. Unless they are identical triplets who grew together in the same cardboard box, they are all the same person. Hence, "Sybil".

 

[Into the Night]

Not self evidently true. Just starting principles.

They are not 'starting principles'. They are self evident because they are the founding rules of a closed system such as mathematics or logic.