Stand up against the Government!

Jarod said:
Damocles, you dont belive that it is in the world of possabilities that some time in the future an insane person could possably garner control of the government and then use nukes against the people?
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Now we're talking. I thought the dragon post was peak bong hit for this thread, but it just keeps getting better.
 
Sparta said:
So when you said we weren't defeated in Afghanistan, you meant something other than winning?
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Not having been defeated is not the same thing as winning.

At half time of a football game, the team with a lower score has not been defeated, yet its still not winning.
 
Thing1 said:
This is full of contradictions. If the gov't needs our support, what does it matter if it's nukes or conventional weapons they're using? They wouldn't use them - because they NEED OUR SUPPORT. Because we have elections, and checks & balances, and if we the people don't like what our gov't is doing, there is a lever we're able to pull to change that.

The idea that arms are needed in case we don't like what the gov't is doing is just as loony as anything you're pointing to.
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Again, the arms may never be necessary largely because they exist. 100 Million armed citizens are absolutely a deterrent. They need our support, and they need it willingly if we are armed.
 
Jarod said:
Not having been defeated is not the same thing as winning.

At half time of a football game, the team with a lower score has not been defeated, yet its still not winning.
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Yeah, it's called losing. It's what happens before a loss.
 
Jarod said:
Damocles, you dont belive that it is in the world of possabilities that some time in the future an insane person could possably garner control of the government and then use nukes against the people?
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If you believe that then the armed citizens would be the only recourse. Seriously, the reality is the military simply could not stand up to that many armed people standing against it, even with this magic undefeatable equipment you think they have.
 
Thing1 said:
This is full of contradictions. If the gov't needs our support, what does it matter if it's nukes or conventional weapons they're using? They wouldn't use them - because they NEED OUR SUPPORT. Because we have elections, and checks & balances, and if we the people don't like what our gov't is doing, there is a lever we're able to pull to change that.
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what happens when they ignore the vote and continue their own objectives?
 
SmarterthanYou said:
I didn't ask you those other questions. you said that it's possible, not that it would be fairyland. did the jews non violent protest against the nazis get them back to their ghettos?

I ask again, is it possible that a rogue element or group could ignore the constitution and take over the government, thereby controlling the country? a yes or no will suffice.
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I am not here to JUST answer your questions.. but for now I will play along and say... yes that is clearly in the world of possabilities.
 
Damocles said:
If you believe that then the armed citizens would be the only recourse. Seriously, the reality is the military simply could not stand up to that many armed people standing against it, even with this magic undefeatable equipment you think they have.
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I never said that they have magic or undefeatable equipment, I simply said they have better more sophisticated and more deadly equipment.

Your game of make belive that Jarod is saying something different than he really said is getting tiresome/.
 
Jarod said:
You say that I "seem to think that because th egovernment has certain tools, it means that the 2A is irrelevant." Thats not at all what I think, go back and read the thread again. I never said that.
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It's not?

Jarod said:
It will not happen. Our culture has moved beyond where simple gun ownership would make it possable to stand up to the Government. If that changes, we can then reinstate the Second Amendment. In the mean time kids are being killed to protect an outdated notion that Guns will somehow protect us from a overstepping Government.
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SmarterthanYou said:
and when they ignore that?
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Which "they" are you talking about? Are you talking about a scenario where the House & Senate agree with a sitting President that all of the rules in place for our gov't should be thrown out the window, so they can just lord over the rest of us?

Or the other scenario, where the Easter Bunny takes over the capitol?
 
Jarod said:
I never said that they have magic or undefeatable equipment, I simply said they have better more sophisticated and more deadly equipment.
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Which fails to bring in every war since WWII.

In order for this magical circumstance to even prevail you'd need to get:

1. Every citizen in the military to give up on their oath to protect the constitution and therefore be willing to kill as many US citizens as possible.
2. At least a realistic threat of nuclear attack by the US government on its own citizens.
3. Every citizen in the US to simply give up because they don't have tanks.

The reality is, yeah. The armed citizenry is absolutely a match for our military at least as much as the people in Afghanistan who still regularly kill these undefeatable people and will soon send us out of Afghanistan for them to take it back over from whatever corrupt puppet controls it when we leave...
 
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