Swiftboating 2012

obviously bijou never heard about the boy who cried wolf.....

howey and others like him will not be taken seriously for constantly crying racism.

that is just a fact, no matter how hard bijou wants to ignore it.
 
Winterborn said:
So you are maintaining that false claims of bias do not effect the responses to genuine cases of bias?
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Bijou said:
Not by reasonable, aware, NON-racist people, no.
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Let's be clear - we're talking about racism, not merely bias. Bias suggests differences in perspective. Racism is ugly, destructive and dangerous. It isn't merely another bias.
 
The subject of the thread is Swiftboating 2012. When using the term swiftboating in politics I think most people think of John Kerry and the 2004 election. So to me at least by saying Swiftboating 2012 the author is saying what happened to John Kerry in 2004 is happening again today to Barack Obama. But its racist this time because it is happening to a black male and not a white male like in '04? Is it really progress to claim basically any criticism of a black male is racist?

When someone makes a sign that says Don't Re-Nig in 2012 that is racist. When someone uses the same political stunt on a black man that they did on a white man that is not racist.
 
cawacko said:
The subject of the thread is Swiftboating 2012. When using the term swiftboating in politics I think most people think of John Kerry and the 2004 election. So to me at least by saying Swiftboating 2012 the author is saying what happened to John Kerry in 2004 is happening again today to Barack Obama. But its racist this time because it is happening to a black male and not a white male like in '04? Is it really progress to claim basically any criticism of a black male is racist?

When someone makes a sign that says Don't Re-Nig in 2012 that is racist. When someone uses the same political stunt on a black man that they did on a white man that is not racist.
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I agree with you. I've been called racist for my criticism of Obama. I laugh - I know the difference between that and the real thing.
 
And not that bac is the board arbitrator for what is or isn't racism but he's a man who has faced real racism on this board (and I'm going to assume plenty is his real life as well) and he's saying he sees no racism. So I guess I fall in the WB camp where I see nothing positive that comes from crying racism when there is nothing there.
 
Socrtease said:
This is complete bullshit. In March of 2002 Bush said he did not think much about Bin Laden at all. In 2006 it was "not a top priority use of American resources." Bush gave up on bin Laden because his capture or death would have taken wind of the sails of war. We were in Iraq and that is ALL Bush wanted. Their right, President Obama didn't physically get OBL, but he did give the order to go into Pakistan when almost everyone else was wringing their hands and telling him no. The call ultimately belonged to the CiC and he made it and was right. Bush can NEVER say that.
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Well said. Excellent summation!
 
Bijou said:
I agree with you. I've been called racist for my criticism of Obama. I laugh - I know the difference between that and the real thing.
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You have? Seriously? Wow. That's funny (I don't mean literally funny but hopefully you get my point).
 
enough said:
did obama kill obl all by himself? and what hate exactly did i defend?
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No. He approved the plan to enter a sovereign nation and capture or kill OBL and then he gave the order. Had the mission failed and it became publicly known Obama would have been Jimmy Carter part duex. He would have had to taken responsibility for that failed mission and it's diplomatic and national security implications. He'd of been in the shit had that mission failed....but it didn't. So he deserve credit as the CIC for making a good decision. That in no way takes away from the incredible job our special forces did in executing this mission. They were superb! Even through adveristy when one of the copters crashed.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
No. He approved the plan to enter a sovereign nation and capture or kill OBL and then he gave the order. Had the mission failed and it became publicly known Obama would have been Jimmy Carter part duex. He would have had to taken responsibility for that failed mission and it's diplomatic and national security implications. He'd of been in the shit had that mission failed....but it didn't. So he deserve credit as the CIC for making a good decision. That in no way takes away from the incredible job our special forces did in executing this mission. They were superb! Even through adveristy when one of the copters crashed.
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that is my point, which i said right after obl was killed. obama may not be entirely responsible, but he gets the lion share of the credit.
 
Bijou said:
If you read a bit more carefully, you'd see that Howey isn't calling the criticism itself racist. He's calling the group whose doing the 'swiftboat' crap racists.
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so howey is just butthurt over a non partisan and non politically connected group calling out the president on his own bullshit, therefore they must be racist. yeah, I can totally see that.
 
WinterBorn said:
Absolute bullshit. Everytime someone cries racism and there is none, it makes the next cries of racism more likely to be met with "yeah, yea, just like last time". The same is true for false accusations of sexual prejudice, gender bias, or homophobia.

I want to see racism be so rare as to be lost. But this ain't the way to do it.

And since you stepped up, can YOU point out the racism?
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WinterBorn said:
Funny that you challenge me but let your buddy have a pass to post bullshit. Nice.

But yes, it does effect the genuine cries of racism. It effects whether people listen, especially the authorities. You may WANT an equal response whether there have been no false charges or 500 false charges, but that is not how it works in the real world.
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Of course I can point out the racism. Do you think I would make a claim without being able to back it up? My name's not Yurt, Dicksee, or STN.

A Navy investigation into the racial climate among its elite commandos has found no widespread problem with the SEAL community but noted isolated incidents of racial insensitivity.

However, some current and retired Navy SEALs recount conditions that they say make it difficult for blacks to succeed in the special forces even after they pass the rigorous training, The Virginian-Pilot reported Sunday.

They describe recount lewd, sexist behavior, rampant use of racial slurs and a double standard of reward and punishment that favors whites. In one case, a drunken white SEAL exposed himself to a black woman, who turned out to be a Marine Corps general’s wife. Despite protests by the general and others, the SEAL was fined just $500 and given a reprimand.

The Navy investigation was prompted by the resignation of Jake Zweig, a 29-year-old lieutenant and Naval Academy graduate.

“I have grown tired of being surrounded by the openly racist and prejudiced personnel of the Naval Special Warfare Community,” Zweig wrote in his resignation letter. “I am moving on to pursue my graduate education.”
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Remember Wade Michael Page? The Sikh shooter? He was an active racist militia member while in Special Ops.

When Wisconsin temple gunman Wade Michael Page arrived at Fort Bragg in 1995, the sprawling Army base in North Carolina already was home to a small number of white supremacists including three soldiers later convicted in the murder of an African-American couple.

The killings launched a military investigation that tightened regulations against extremist activity, but some say such influences persist in today's armed forces.

"Outside every major military installation, you will have at least two or three active neo-Nazi organizations actively trying to recruit on-duty personnel," said T.J. Leyden, a former white power skinhead in the U.S. Marines who now conducts anti-extremism training.

He had ties to white supremacist groups and the FBI acknowledges it knew of him, though no formal investigation ever took place.

According to Pete Simi, a University of Nebraska criminologist who knew Page, the military experience at Fort Bragg helped instill Page's allegiance to the white power movement.

"What he told me during the course of our time together was that he really started to identify with the neo-Nazism during his time in the military," said Simi, who met Page in 2001 while doing a study on white power groups in California. "And specifically, what he told me at one point was that, if you join the military and you're not a racist, then you certainly will be by the time you leave."

In particular, Simi told CNN, Page's military experience bolstered his perception that "the deck was stacked against whites."

"He came to feel that there was preferential treatment for African-Americans in the military and whites were always on the short end of the stick," Simi continued. "And the more he got into the Nazi ideology, the more he came to see all of society in that way."

While Page knew about neo-Nazis and racist skinheads before joining the Army, "he really started getting into it during his time in the military," said Simi, author of "American Swastika: Inside the White Power Movement's Hidden Spaces of Hate."


Page joined the Army in 1992 and ended up at Fort Bragg in 1995, around the time that the base became the focus of white extremism in the military when three members of the 82nd Airborne Division stationed there were arrested in connection with the murder of an African-American couple in nearby Fayetteville.

Investigators found neo-Nazi materials in the barracks of the men, and all three were eventually convicted. The case prompted a military review that determined 22 soldiers at the base had past or present links to skinhead groups, though investigators concluded there was no organized extremist movement operating among the more than 14,000 troops of the 82nd Airborne at the time.

Those who served with Page say he showed racist tendencies then.

"He was involved with white supremacy. He talked about the racial holy war a lot," said Chris Robillard, who met Page at Fort Bragg in 1995 when both were doing psychological operations training.
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So, yeah. Racism is alive and well in the Seals and other elite white groups in the military.

I'd also like to address your (and other's) claims of my use of the word racist in reference to some groups. Which, as I just proved, isn't claimed without backup.

How about your (and other's) claims of liberals being "racist" as an excuse to negate our claims? That's a coward's way of acknowledging the bigotry in your heart.
 
SmarterthanYou said:
so howey is just butthurt over a non partisan and non politically connected group calling out the president on his own bullshit, therefore they must be racist. yeah, I can totally see that.
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You, and RazorX, and PMP, are probably the most blatant racists on this forum.
 
Howey said:
Of course I can point out the racism. Do you think I would make a claim without being able to back it up? My name's not Yurt, Dicksee, or STN.



Remember Wade Michael Page? The Sikh shooter? He was an active racist militia member while in Special Ops.



So, yeah. Racism is alive and well in the Seals and other elite white groups in the military.

I'd also like to address your (and other's) claims of my use of the word racist in reference to some groups. Which, as I just proved, isn't claimed without backup.

How about your (and other's) claims of liberals being "racist" as an excuse to negate our claims? That's a coward's way of acknowledging the bigotry in your heart.
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So they found evidence of racial insensitivity in the SEALs? Ok. So the people mentioned in the OP were part of that racism? Or were they simply guilty by virtue of being part of the same branch of the military?

I must have missed where I called liberals racist in an attempt to negate my own racism. Care to link that? Or will this just be another "All gun owners are irresponsible" kind of thing?
 
With all due respect to my left-leaning friends, I find absolutely nothing racist about what this group is saying. Was it racist when they swift-boated Kerry? If not, how is it racist now?

Those of us who recognize the existence and terrorism of racism in America cannot scream racism everytime someone says something negative about a black person .. particularly when that someone is the President of the United States. It diminishes the voice and action against actual racism when it occurs.

If I can say a word about the US military .. it is probably the least racist organization in America. The impediments to growth and advancement for non-white people in the military pales in comparison to the impediments throughout the rest of our society.

Are there racist people in the military? Absolutely there are. There are racists all over America, the military is no exception. But the difference is that their racism is a non-factor. It they demonstrate it in the ranks, there are consequences and their actions are taken very seriously. The military has been so good at addressing racism in the ranks, that today, sexism is far more serious and widespread than racism .. and the military is fast addressing sexism as well.

My daughter is all of 5'6" and about 130 pounds dripping wet. Did I also mention that she's black? It would have been easy to dismiss and overlook her as "unqualified" to be a man or to stand in a man's shoes. That isn't what happened. She is a high-ranking NCO .. and she has achieved that just as fast as any man would have. Many retire from the military after 20 years and never advance to the rank she is today after 12 years of active duty.

My daughter is not unique in the military. Few things make me prouder than being with my daughter on base and looking at black officers and ranking enlisted soldiers all over the base who wear their achievements with pride and a whole lot of honor .. and I say that as the most antiwar person on planet earth. It isn't their participation in the wars our politicians create .. including the black one .. it's their achievements that make me proud. It's the fact that the military took racism seriously and seriously addressed it in a way than the rest of society has not.

My question to my left-leaning friends is why haven't you taken Obama to task for his ungodly warmongering? WHY?

If you want to do something real for soldiers of color .. help keep them out of body-bags. Find the same courage you had when you screamed at George Bush for doing the exact same thing that Obama is doing .. waging war on planet earth.

I intend no disrespect to anyone.
 
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