Taxes were cut, where are the jobs?

Superfreak said:
Again, you do not. That same money sitting in cash under the current system... how is that taxed going forward dung???

Thats right... it isn't. Unless they make money off of that money (via an investment of some nature) they are not going to be taxed on it.
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Well, it's taxed before it sits there. The money comes in as profits. The profits are taxed. We're talking about after tax cash. Under your system, the money comes in as profits and the profits aren't taxed.

So, you're right that the $1.7T isn't taxed currently. A much higher amount is taxed. And those taxes wouldn't occur under your system unless they were distributed to shareholders as dividends.
 
General Buck Turgidson said:
Well, it's taxed before it sits there. The money comes in as profits. The profits are taxed. We're talking about after tax cash. Under your system, the money comes in as profits and the profits aren't taxed.
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Again, that would give them even MORE cash on hand than what they currently have. They are not going to sit on endless amounts of cash. It will crush their IRR. They will continue to hold cash (as they do today) for emergencies or future growth projects. The amount will vary based on the economic conditions that are prevailing at any given time.

So, you're right that the $1.7T isn't taxed currently. A much higher amount is taxed. And those taxes wouldn't occur under your system unless they were distributed to shareholders as dividends.
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and again... sooner or later they will either distribute the money or they will invest it for growth. You seem to be under the impression that the money will never be taxed.
 
Onceler said:
Once again - everything crashed under Bush, Dix.

You're praising the leaders of Enron for all of the wonderful growth that occurred up until the company collapsed. It really looks silly.

And you're also discrediting the CBO, without anything to substantiate your claim that it is not reliable. Just your typical wishful thinking. According to your logic, there is no way to corroborate anything - because no data, about anything, can ever be trusted.
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Well if everything crashed under Bush, what do you call what happened under Obama? Again, Bush created 8 million jobs with a tax cut that cost less than half of what Obama has spent in stimulus, which produced 3 million jobs, by your liberal estimations. It's clear to see that TAX CUTS beat KEYNESIAN POLICY!

I've not "praised" the leaders of Enron! I didn't even know who Enron was until they were indicted for criminal activity and convicted... sent to fucking prison! What the hell do you want me to do about that, demand we burn them at the stake or something? I honestly don't understand what else can be done about Enron, other than what we did! And while we're talking about corrupt corporations under certain administrations, what about Solyndra? Can we hold you and Obama personally responsible and run around claiming you are "praising" the leaders of Solyndra, when you haven't? Didn't think so!

CBO... CBO..CBO... That's all the fuck you idiots want to holler until the CBO says something you don't want to hear.
 
Superfreak said:
we have already played this one out... you lost the last time... I have no inclination to hammer you again so badly. Go look up the thread if you wish to see how this conversation will play out.
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It's a simple question, really. I mean, are you measuring based on deficit as a % of GDP or in dollars? I'm guessing dollars since you're being so coy about it. And that's not a good metric.
 
Dixie said:
Well if everything crashed under Bush, what do you call what happened under Obama? Again, Bush created 8 million jobs with a tax cut that cost less than half of what Obama has spent in stimulus, which produced 3 million jobs, by your liberal estimations. It's clear to see that TAX CUTS beat KEYNESIAN POLICY!

I've not "praised" the leaders of Enron! I didn't even know who Enron was until they were indicted for criminal activity and convicted... sent to fucking prison! What the hell do you want me to do about that, demand we burn them at the stake or something? I honestly don't understand what else can be done about Enron, other than what we did! And while we're talking about corrupt corporations under certain administrations, what about Solyndra? Can we hold you and Obama personally responsible and run around claiming you are "praising" the leaders of Solyndra, when you haven't? Didn't think so!

CBO... CBO..CBO... That's all the fuck you idiots want to holler until the CBO says something you don't want to hear.
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Nothing "crashed" under Obama, Dix. The crash started in 2008, and lasted through much of 2009. It was continuous; did you think it became the "Obama crash" as of January, 2009?

With Obama, we have slowly turned, and things are moving in the other direction now - you know, actual growth.

Enron was a metaphor, Dix. Your praising Bush for decent #'s that existed through most of his admin, but turning a blind eye to the fact that it was clearly foundation-less, and that the biggest crash in decades happened on his watch.

You're the one who doesn't want to hear what the CBO says, btw.
 
Onceler said:
Nothing "crashed" under Obama, Dix. The crash started in 2008, and lasted through much of 2009. It was continuous; did you think it became the "Obama crash" as of January, 2009?

With Obama, we have slowly turned, and things are moving in the other direction now - you know, actual growth.

Enron was a metaphor, Dix. Your praising Bush for decent #'s that existed through most of his admin, but turning a blind eye to the fact that it was clearly foundation-less, and that the biggest crash in decades happened on his watch.

You're the one who doesn't want to hear what the CBO says, btw.
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The crash started in 2008, when it became apparent we were about to have an anti-capitalist president. From 2000-2008, during Bush's two terms, he created 8 million jobs from a tax cut that cost a fraction of what Obama has spent to create, supposedly, 3 million jobs. Nothing has "moved in the other direction" ...you just changed perspectives. We get a job report which says we added 80k jobs, and you celebrate in the streets about it, even though... 100k new workers came into the system, so we actually LOST 20k more jobs! And since 80k is nowhere near the 250k Bush was routinely creating, you have to run grab a 'study' that shows Obama has "saved" jobs, and we have to count those too!

And on Enron... regardless of when we found out about their corruption, most of the 'book cooking' took place under one president William Jefferson Clinton, and NOT Bush! STILL... we put the people in prison for it, there isn't much else we can do about it! Trying to lay the blame on Bush is just partisan hackery.

I am FINE with the CBO and what they say, but I also realize what they say and how they score things, is based on the information given to them, and is an ESTIMATE... not REALITY. Historically, the CBO is almost NEVER accurate on cost of ANY program. For instance, they estimated Obamacare would cost us $10 trillion over 10 years... but this was because much of the cost was hidden in money they planned to steal from Medicaid, which SCOTUS ruled they can not do... so now, the CBO will have to re-calculate, and you aren't going to like their new totals. Of course, that doesn't matter to people as DISHONEST as yourself, you'll probably parade around with the old CBO numbers, claiming that is the Gospel, and nothing else matters.
 
Dixie said:
The crash started in 2008, when it became apparent we were about to have an anti-capitalist president. From 2000-2008, during Bush's two terms, he created 8 million jobs from a tax cut that cost a fraction of what Obama has spent to create, supposedly, 3 million jobs. Nothing has "moved in the other direction" ...you just changed perspectives. We get a job report which says we added 80k jobs, and you celebrate in the streets about it, even though... 100k new workers came into the system, so we actually LOST 20k more jobs! And since 80k is nowhere near the 250k Bush was routinely creating, you have to run grab a 'study' that shows Obama has "saved" jobs, and we have to count those too!

And on Enron... regardless of when we found out about their corruption, most of the 'book cooking' took place under one president William Jefferson Clinton, and NOT Bush! STILL... we put the people in prison for it, there isn't much else we can do about it! Trying to lay the blame on Bush is just partisan hackery.

I am FINE with the CBO and what they say, but I also realize what they say and how they score things, is based on the information given to them, and is an ESTIMATE... not REALITY. Historically, the CBO is almost NEVER accurate on cost of ANY program. For instance, they estimated Obamacare would cost us $10 trillion over 10 years... but this was because much of the cost was hidden in money they planned to steal from Medicaid, which SCOTUS ruled they can not do... so now, the CBO will have to re-calculate, and you aren't going to like their new totals. Of course, that doesn't matter to people as DISHONEST as yourself, you'll probably parade around with the old CBO numbers, claiming that is the Gospel, and nothing else matters.
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Dix - the CBO data is reported data. It isn't one of their "projections." I agree w/ you on their projections, and so do they; this doesn't fall into that category. You're really tapdancing now.

As for the economy crashing - worst crash in decades - because it became clear that Obama was going to be elected, that is pure, unadulterated comedy. Real hack stuff.
 
Onceler said:
Dix - the CBO data is reported data. It isn't one of their "projections." I agree w/ you on their projections, and so do they; this doesn't fall into that category. You're really tapdancing now.

As for the economy crashing - worst crash in decades - because it became clear that Obama was going to be elected, that is pure, unadulterated comedy. Real hack stuff.
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Oh really? "Jobs saved" is not some kind of speculative conjecture? Well tell me, just HOW did they come to this conclusion? Was there sworn testimony from CEOs that layoffs would have happened if not for Obama's stimulus money? What kind of "data" did they use to come up with this "saved" number? Do you have any fucking clue? Or are you just repeating what other liberals have said, because that's the liberal meme on this?

The "worst crash in decades" became even WORSE under Obama, because his Keynesian plans to save us, did not work! He spent $3 trillion to create a trumped up 3 million jobs, and that is counting the jobs he supposedly "saved" with his magic Superman cape and all! Unemployment, which Obama PROMISED would never rise above 8% if we passed his stimulus, has not been BELOW 8% since he has been president. REAL unemployment is STILL at around 10%, and minority and youth demographics are at about 20% now. Things are SHITTY out there! REAL SHITTY! And the more you pompous assholes BRAG about how great things are, the more angry and vitriolic the REAL people out there are getting about it, because it shows you are completely out of touch.
 
Superfreak said:
Thankfully for you this board has a search function. Have fun in your search. Once you have read up on it, you can come back and admit you were wrong.
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What was I wrong about? I simply asked you how you were measuring fiscal irresponsibility, by % of GDP or in dollars.
 
I bet business will get better when I hate America Obama is fired, and I hate America Obamacare is done away with.
 
General Buck Turgidson said:
Let's see. Dixie or the National Bureau of Economic Research? Tough call here.
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Let's be clear Gen. Turdmunch, the economy began to tank when AIG failed and the housing market began to collapse. THAT was a result of Barney Frank and Chris Dodd's scheme to mandate low-income loans to people who couldn't afford them. We may have overcome that, the economic indicators showed we weren't in any trouble we couldn't have crawled out of, but then, Obama won the nomination and appeared to be on his way to the White House. And at that point, capitalists started moving their money to securities, because rich people ain't stupid. The more Obama talked about rich people paying their fair share, the more capitalist investors moved money into securities and stopped taking risks. For 4 years, this man has preached his Keynesian policy, and decried corporations and capitalism, and the money people have continued to keep their money safely tucked away. They are not going to bring it out to spend until there is a pro-capitalist in the White House.
 
Dixie said:
Oh really? "Jobs saved" is not some kind of speculative conjecture? Well tell me, just HOW did they come to this conclusion? Was there sworn testimony from CEOs that layoffs would have happened if not for Obama's stimulus money? What kind of "data" did they use to come up with this "saved" number? Do you have any fucking clue?
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It's from simple reporting. That's how a lot of data is collected, in many fields.

And no one is saying things are great, Dix. You sound really unhinged right now.
 
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