Taxes were cut, where are the jobs?

[Onceler]

Well, come on man, you don't see a problem with that method? Really? Nothing even nearing false "reporting" would EVER happen with that.

You could say that about literally anything.

It's fraud, and it's illegal. If you want to allege that, it would be nice to see some sort of proof. There are lots of reporters and politico geeks following the stimulus - should be an easy find for you.

 

[Jarod]

The crash started in 2008, when it became apparent we were about to have an anti-capitalist president. From 2000-2008, during Bush's two terms, he created 8 million jobs from a tax cut that cost a fraction of what Obama has spent to create, supposedly, 3 million jobs. Nothing has "moved in the other direction" ...you just changed perspectives. We get a job report which says we added 80k jobs, and you celebrate in the streets about it, even though... 100k new workers came into the system, so we actually LOST 20k more jobs! And since 80k is nowhere near the 250k Bush was routinely creating, you have to run grab a 'study' that shows Obama has "saved" jobs, and we have to count those too!

And on Enron... regardless of when we found out about their corruption, most of the 'book cooking' took place under one president William Jefferson Clinton, and NOT Bush! STILL... we put the people in prison for it, there isn't much else we can do about it! Trying to lay the blame on Bush is just partisan hackery.

I am FINE with the CBO and what they say, but I also realize what they say and how they score things, is based on the information given to them, and is an ESTIMATE... not REALITY. Historically, the CBO is almost NEVER accurate on cost of ANY program. For instance, they estimated Obamacare would cost us $10 trillion over 10 years... but this was because much of the cost was hidden in money they planned to steal from Medicaid, which SCOTUS ruled they can not do... so now, the CBO will have to re-calculate, and you aren't going to like their new totals. Of course, that doesn't matter to people as DISHONEST as yourself, you'll probably parade around with the old CBO numbers, claiming that is the Gospel, and nothing else matters.

WOW, you are really delusional.

 

[Althea]

and they were lost because of the tax cuts?

They were lost because the artificial housing scandal blew up. If you want to reference the jobs that were created (nothing to do with tax cuts for billionaires) then you should reference the jobs that were lost when the smoke and mirrors cleared.

In fact, the economy crashed because of those who chose to invest in the market, in order to avoid taxation.

 

[j-mac]

You could say that about literally anything.

It's fraud, and it's illegal. If you want to allege that, it would be nice to see some sort of proof. There are lots of reporters and politico geeks following the stimulus - should be an easy find for you.

yep, it was....here you go first link from Google...

A new report touts more than 10,300 jobs created or saved in Wisconsin by federal stimulus money in the last three months of 2009.

But the jobs listed are based on new accounting rules that make it impossible to track the total number of jobs created or saved by the program. And the updated guidelines also make it impossible to avoid double counting from quarter to quarter.

Take the Wisconsin Department of Public Instruction.

In the latest round of reporting, the state agency used the exact same job creation figure from an earlier report instead of generating an updated number. That's now an acceptable reporting method, according to Gov. Jim Doyle's office, which is overseeing stimulus spending.

Fourth-quarter data reported to the federal government shows that 3,932 education positions were funded by almost $481 million in stimulus money, which helped school districts around the state avoid laying off teachers and support staff. All the money was distributed to districts last summer.

That job number is the same one used in the previous reporting period because the jobs were reported on an annual, not quarterly, basis, state officials said. So the state education department will keep copying that figure through the end of this school year.

"It's not that (school districts) created another 3,900 jobs last quarter, it's that the job is still there because it was saved or created with that money in the first place," said Patrick Gasper, spokesman for the state education agency. "It's a very complicated process on top of all of the other federal programs that we have to pay attention to."

A Journal Sentinel review last fall found that the number of jobs reported in the state in the first round of stimulus reporting was overstated by hundreds of jobs. The newspaper found instances of human error, double counting and more than 100 cases where cost-of-living pay raises were counted as jobs saved.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/wisconsin/83512527.html

And one from your own MSNBC

WASHINGTON — The White House has abandoned its controversial method of counting jobs under President Barack Obama's economic stimulus, making it impossible to track the number of jobs saved or created with the $787 billion in recovery money.

Despite mounting a vigorous defense of its earlier count of more than 640,000 jobs credited to the stimulus, even after numerous errors were identified, the Obama administration now is making it easier to give the stimulus credit for hiring. It's no longer about counting a job as saved or created; now it's a matter of counting jobs funded by the stimulus.

That means that any stimulus money used to cover payroll will be included in the jobs credited to the program, including pay raises for existing employees and pay for people who never were in jeopardy of losing their positions.

The new rules, quietly published last month in a memorandum to federal agencies, mark the White House's latest response to criticism about the way it counts jobs credited to the stimulus. When The Associated Press first reported flaws in the job counts in October, the White House said errors were being corrected and future counts would provide a full and correct accounting of just how many stimulus jobs were saved or created.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3483045...changes-stimulus-job-accounting/#.T_9Ku900hCc

IMHO, what a complete and utter rip off!

 

[j-mac]

They were lost because the artificial housing scandal blew up. If you want to reference the jobs that were created (nothing to do with tax cuts for billionaires) then you should reference the jobs that were lost when the smoke and mirrors cleared.

In fact, the economy crashed because of those who chose to invest in the market, in order to avoid taxation.

Yeah, damn those retirees.

 

[Howey]

There were both allocations that were designated, and those that were awarded by application. Regardless, anyone who got the money had to report.

It's pretty simple.

Have you researched any of this on your own? Why am I educating you? The way you've been talking on the thread, it seems like you know all about how they made up the figures and pulled #'s out of the air. The fact that you don't know what the heck they did is pretty telling.

But it's also boring. I like having intelligent discussions, with people who understand the facts of a situation. You're clearly in the dark.

Dicksee doesn't research. Dicksee relays what the voices in his head are saying.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

They were lost because the artificial housing scandal blew up.

And not because of Bush or Bush Tax Cuts... thank you very much!

 

[Althea]

Yeah, damn those retirees.

Yea...the retirees knew exactly what the mutual funds were doing w/the money.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

WOW, you are really delusional.

Yeah, too bad that's about all you can add to this conversation... now run along!

 

[j-mac]

Yea...the retirees knew exactly what the mutual funds were doing w/the money.

Well, I would agree that most people don't know what their investments, 401Ks, et al are doing to the minute detail...But I think it is human nature to want your investments to do well right? So what is bad about that?

Or are you against any sort of private investing?

 

[PostmodernProphet]

Jeez, PMP - I'm not sure you could be dumber on this if you tried.

The stimulus was a stop-gap measure; it was intended to stop the bleeding, not fully repair the economy. To answer your question, it's a job saved for a year, which is a good thing. The idea is that the private sector can take over at a certain point.

No offense, but you really don't understand this stuff at all.

ah, is a job saved for a year at a cost of $300k a good thing?.....or would it have been better to spend that $300k to create a job that lasted longer than a year?...

 

[Cancel 2018. 3]

They were lost because the artificial housing scandal blew up. If you want to reference the jobs that were created (nothing to do with tax cuts for billionaires) then you should reference the jobs that were lost when the smoke and mirrors cleared.

In fact, the economy crashed because of those who chose to invest in the market, in order to avoid taxation.

so this thread is a waste of ethernet....

you said basically what i said in the beginning. it wasn't the tax cuts, it was, by and large, the housing bubble. but hacks like onceler want to pretend otherwise. they just want to blame bush for everything because they've done so for so long they don't know how to think any other way.

 

[Onceler]

so this thread is a waste of ethernet....

you said basically what i said in the beginning. it wasn't the tax cuts, it was, by and large, the housing bubble. but hacks like onceler want to pretend otherwise. they just want to blame bush for everything because they've done so for so long they don't know how to think any other way.

LOL - you're mentioning me in every thread. Under your skin much?

So, 8 years of complete fiscal irresponsibility, pork-laden energy & transporation bills, expensive wars, a philosophy that deficit spending 'doesn't matter'...that was all inconsequential to the crash.

Smart.

 

[Cancel 2018. 3]

Goddam, are you dopey. Why are you partaking in this conversation if you don't know something as basic as this? It's hilarious too, because you've made all kinds of shoot-from-the-hip-claims as to how they arrived at the #'s. It's simple, and I've stated it a few times on this thread.

Everyone who got stimulus money has to report where it went, and what jobs it either saved or created, to the CBO. It's that simple.

Now, please - feel free to discredit that, and tell us how they are all liberals who are making up data.

why do you have the same exact conversation with everyone?

you're dopey

you shouldn't partake in this because you're dumb

yawn

 

[Cancel 2018. 3]

LOL - you're mentioning me in every thread. Under your skin much?

So, 8 years of complete fiscal irresponsibility, pork-laden energy & transporation bills, expensive wars, a philosophy that deficit spending 'doesn't matter'...that was all inconsequential to the crash.

Smart.

yes...how odd i would mention your argument in the thread you made the argument.

what a fucking dumb dumb. you should shut your computer down and go to bed.

what is truly hackish of you, is that you never once answered my question about clinton and obama signing the same pork laden bills. oh no....they get a pass, but when bush does the same thing, that is very bad.

get off the internet and let the adults discuss things.

 

[Onceler]

why do you have the same exact conversation with everyone?

you're dopey

you shouldn't partake in this because you're dumb

yawn

Sorry, but the connies on this thread have been dopey. It's been a bad thread for you righties.

Do you know how many of you I had to explain the CBO to, and how they derive their #'s, and how much of the stimulus was tax cuts, etc? It's been draining teaching you idjits...

 

[Onceler]

yes...how odd i would mention your argument in the thread you made the argument.

what a fucking dumb dumb. you should shut your computer down and go to bed.

what is truly hackish of you, is that you never once answered my question about clinton and obama signing the same pork laden bills. oh no....they get a pass, but when bush does the same thing, that is very bad.

get off the internet and let the adults discuss things.

Are you referring to yourself? After calling me a dumb dumb?

LOL - and I mean it. That is really funny.

 

[Onceler]

And you don't know what you're talking about w/ Clinton & Obama. They did not sign the "same bills."

You advertise your inexperience w/ politics every day.

 

[Cancel 2018. 3]

oh excuse my typo retard

the same type of bills

you know exactly what i meant, but of course you have to snipe and dodge the actual discussion that both of them also signed pork laden bills, which is what i said this morning and you ran away from it. you bitch about bush and pork, yet applaud clinton and obama pork.

everything you've said about bush being fiscally irresponsible, obama has done that and more. except for the initiation of the two wars.

 

[Cancel 2018. 3]

Are you referring to yourself? After calling me a dumb dumb?

LOL - and I mean it. That is really funny.

you whine i'm talking about you in "every thread"....what is retarded about that statement is that in the two threads i mentioned you:

1. it was in reference to an argument you made in this very thread. yes...how shocking someone would do that.

2. you had already brought me up in the other thread and i mocked you because you and darla (you both brought me up before i even mentioned you) were wrong.

funny how it is ok for you and darla to talk about me, even when i don't post in a thread, but holy crap, if yurt mentions you in reference to a statement you made in a that very thread....yurt is bad.

you're a joke. you don't even see how bad you are.