The bible

ExpressLane said:
Why would a JEW who rejected Christ give credit to Christ. The Jews wanted to ignore Christ and his power. Much like how our news media tends to ignore news that they don't think fits their narrative today. A great example just admitted Hunter's laptop is genuine after over 750 days of ignoring it. A Jew wouldn't recognize things that threatened his personal power as a Jew. Christ's message threatened to dissolve Jewish religion.
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The first century Jewish historian Josephus wrote about Jesus and his execution by Roman authorities.

There was no reason for Jesus to be widely known before the late first century. He was an obscure Jewish mystic who mainly taught in the backwater province of Galilee to a relatively small following of Jewish peasants. The New Testament obviously embellishes and idealizes his actions and importance prior to 30 CE. To the Romans, Jesus was just one of dozens of Jewish mystics preaching an apocalyptic message.

History was not written down in antiquity in the format we are accustomed to today. That said, the histories part of the Old Testament is about as good a historical source as we can get, and it is substantially superior to any histories left to us by the Mesopotamians, Hittites, or Assyrians.

Acts in the new testament is generally considered of significant value to historians for it's historical information (though sometimes idealized) on the early Christian communities.
 
It's an amazing historical document. But it needs to be viewed in light of the time & circumstances when the stories actually happened, when it was written, and who it was written by.

To me, it's almost like "The Iliad." There is some truth to it, but a lot of mythology as well.
 
America said:
In my youth, I was planning to become an Orthodox priest.
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America said:
The Bible has been debunked for generations. It's a collection of fairy tales, and anyone who denies this is either ignorant or deceitful.
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It's hard to believe you studied to be an Orthodox priest without being aware that the historical books of the Old Testament give some of the best historical information we have about the Near East from the first and second temple periods.

The Pentateuch is obviously primarily mythology and allegory from a much older period of Hebrew culture.

There are no serious scholars of antiquity who doubt Jesus existed and was executed by Roman authorities; whether he was divine or how much of his actions and words were later embellished or exaggerated is open to skepticism.
 
Cypress said:
The first century Jewish historian Josephus wrote about Jesus and his execution by Roman authorities.

There was no reason for Jesus to be widely known before the late first century. He was an obscure Jewish mystic who mainly taught in the backwater province of Galilee to a relatively small following of Jewish peasants. The New Testament obviously embellishes and idealizes his actions and importance prior to 30 CE. To the Romans, Jesus was just one of dozens of Jewish mystics preaching an apocalyptic message.

History was not written down in antiquity in the format we are accustomed to today. That said, the histories part of the Old Testament is about as good a historical source as we can get, and it is substantially superior to any histories left to us by the Mesopotamians, Hittites, or Assyrians.

Acts in the new testament is generally considered of significant value to historians for it's historical information (though sometimes idealized) on the early Christian communities.
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Thousands of Jews converted shortyly after Christ's death. The early Christian Church worshiped on the 7th day Sabbath. The Jerusalem Christian church fled Jerusalem and went to Pella and avoided being destroyed in 70 AD They worshipped on the Sabbath for more than 400 more years.

The people of the Church in Jerusalem were commanded by an oracle given by revelation before the war to those in the city who were worthy of it to depart and dwell in one of the cities of Perea which they called Pella. To it those who believed on Christ traveled from Jerusalem, so that when holy men had altogether deserted the royal capital of the Jews and the whole land of Judaea…"

— Eusebius, Church History 3, 5, 3
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saltydancin said:
Good ole boys organized Islamidiotoctacy Mohammed pedophilia will be giving thanks tomorrow with that supreme swastika up Uranus kangaroo court of thieving US Constitution - old glory - old testament - absentee voting ballots arsonists national Christian Nation religion of "man is God".
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You misspelled your anus.
 
Cypress said:
It's hard to believe you studied to be an Orthodox priest without being aware that the historical books of the Old Testament give some of the best historical information we have about the Near East from the first and second temple periods.

The Pentateuch is obviously primarily mythology and allegory from a much older period of Hebrew culture.

There are no serious scholars of antiquity who doubt Jesus existed and was executed by Roman authorities; whether he was divine or how much of his actions and words were later embellished or exaggerated is open to skepticism.
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Pentateuch "is obviously primarily mythology" is an assumption.
 
Defender of Honor said:
Pentateuch "is obviously primarily mythology" is an assumption.
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I don't think Jonah actually lived in the belly of a whale or that Noah built a boat that could hold every animal species in the world

More likely, these are stories intended to impart some lesson or wisdom like the rest of the literature of the ancient world, aka Gilgamesh was probably based on a real historical king, but the story was obviously literary in it's intent.
 
Cypress said:
I don't think Jonah actually lived in the belly of a whale or that Noah built a boat that could hold every animal species in the world

More likely, these are stories intended to impart some lesson or wisdom like the rest of the literature of the ancient world
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I believe both,the important thing about Noah is where did he sail from? And how modern was society at that time.
 
America said:
Ok. Let's start with Philo of Alexandria. He was a first-century Jewish mystic who wrote extensively about Jerusalem. He wrote about all sorts of mundane political events in the city. He wrote about Herod and about Pontius Pilate. He writes about his desire to find the Jewish messiah, and how many people in his day were claiming to be the messiah.

Yet not once does he mention Jesus. If the Bible is to be believed, Jesus spent three years wandering Israel, performing miracles for crowds of people. According to Matthew, once Jesus died the corpses of the prophets rose from their tombs and roamed the streets of Jerusalem. Yet Philo mentions none of it. Why? Why would he spend pages discussing mundane events in Jerusalem yet forget to mention that Jerusalem was invaded by zombies for a day?

Logic dictates that he never mentioned it because it never happened.
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why?......it would be more logical to believe he never mentioned it because he didn't hear about it.....I expect in those days there were many things that people didn't hear about in other lands........for example, the wise men didn't show up in Jerusalem until three years later......strange way to start your attack on the bible......do you have anything with a little more meat on it than your silly assumptions......
 
Defender of Honor said:
I believe both,the important thing about Noah is where did he sail from? And how modern was society at that time.
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Agamemnon, Abraham, Gilgamesh were probably real kings or chieftains, but the mythology and stories of Genesis and the rest of the Pentateuch are stories that evolved as a literary device based on centuries of oral tradition.
 
Cypress said:
I don't think Jonah actually lived in the belly of a whale or that Noah built a boat that could hold every animal species in the world

More likely, these are stories intended to impart some lesson or wisdom like the rest of the literature of the ancient world, aka Gilgamesh was probably based on a real historical king, but the story was obviously literary in it's intent.
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Perhaps there were fish/whale that existed in Jonah's day that do not live in ours. And perhaps animals have become more diverse after the flood? :dunno:
 
PostmodernProphet said:
why?......it would be more logical to believe he never mentioned it because he didn't hear about it.....I expect in those days there were many things that people didn't hear about in other lands........for example, the wise men didn't show up in Jerusalem until three years later......strange way to start your attack on the bible......do you have anything with a little more meat on it than your silly assumptions......
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You mean they didn't watch Fox News ?
 
It should also be noted that Bible translations that are with us today come from the medieval church. This is an organization that was corrupt to its core.

The Bible, like other religious tomes, has also been the root cause of an almost incomprehensible amount of violence over the centuries. I believe in God (though don't use that word much, because there are so many connotations). I think the idea that this timeless entity would just be okay w/ that is pretty hard to believe.

It almost reminds me of what people said about Trump - don't take him literally.
 
BartenderElite said:
It should also be noted that Bible translations that are with us today come from the medieval church. This is an organization that was corrupt to its core.
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An all powerful God that is speaking to us by his Word the Bible would protect that Word by making sure it survived. Have you ever wondered why prophesy is written in such cryptic terms. I believe it was to make sure that the message in that prophesy would be passed through the medieval church down to the church at the end of time. I believe had the Medieval Church known what those encrypted scriptures meant they probably would not have survived to be included in the scriptures. Can it be correctly decoded yes it can by using the Bible to provide the answers.
 
BartenderElite said:
It should also be noted that Bible translations that are with us today come from the medieval church. This is an organization that was corrupt to its core.

The Bible, like other religious tomes, has also been the root cause of an almost incomprehensible amount of violence over the centuries. I believe in God (though don't use that word much, because there are so many connotations). I think the idea that this timeless entity would just be okay w/ that is pretty hard to believe.

It almost reminds me of what people said about Trump - don't take him literally.
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The oldest extant bibles come from late antiquity, fourth and fifth century.

I get the impression that any embellishments added to the New Testament occurred during the first centuries of Christianity in late antiquity, the era of the Church fathers.

There were a lot of corrupt popes and bishops in the Middle Ages, but the scribes who were charged with making hand copies of the bible were seemingly diligent about doing a good job for the most part. By the high Middle Ages it would be hard to sneak some new narrative into the bible without other people finding out about it.
 
BartenderElite said:
It should also be noted that Bible translations that are with us today come from the medieval church. This is an organization that was corrupt to its core.
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the truth is, the translations we have TODAY are based on texts that predate medieval translations by as much as 800 years and are much more reliable than they have ever been......
 
BartenderElite said:
It should also be noted that Bible translations that are with us today come from the medieval church. This is an organization that was corrupt to its core.

The Bible, like other religious tomes, has also been the root cause of an almost incomprehensible amount of violence over the centuries. I believe in God (though don't use that word much, because there are so many connotations). I think the idea that this timeless entity would just be okay w/ that is pretty hard to believe.

It almost reminds me of what people said about Trump - don't take him literally.
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Yet another that forgets the Holy Spirit is available to translate.
 
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