The bible

Perry Phimosis said:
Does God make something good by his approval of it (ie does God decree what is good or bad) OR does God do what is good automatically?
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neither......God doesn't "do" good......God IS good......it isn't arbitrary because God's will is absolute, not arbitrary......go sit under a tree and wait for God to cause an apple to fall on your head.......it will be good.....
 
I AM said:
Where did knowledge come from?
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From almost every aspect of the society you grew up in and lived in.


I guess the question I have for you is why does your version of Christianity have to avoid all the GOOD STUFF like loving your fellow man and caring for the poor in preference to "avenging" and doing "dirty work"?


Sounds to me like you might be worshiping YOURSELF. Might be you put your interpretations and your DESIRES above what God actually DOES ask of His followers since the time of Christ.
 
Perry Phimosis said:
From almost every aspect of the society you grew up in and lived in.


I guess the question I have for you is why does your version of Christianity have to avoid all the GOOD STUFF like loving your fellow man and caring for the poor in preference to "avenging" and doing "dirty work"?


Sounds to me like you might be worshiping YOURSELF. Might be you put your interpretations and your DESIRES above what God actually DOES ask of His followers since the time of Christ.
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My expertise is Passover,which I knew nothing about when Chosen.
 
Perry Phimosis said:
From almost every aspect of the society you grew up in and lived in.


I guess the question I have for you is why does your version of Christianity have to avoid all the GOOD STUFF like loving your fellow man and caring for the poor in preference to "avenging" and doing "dirty work"?


Sounds to me like you might be worshiping YOURSELF. Might be you put your interpretations and your DESIRES above what God actually DOES ask of His followers since the time of Christ.
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Got me? I'm not ramrodding this mission.
I'm one small player in the game.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
at least you've learned what to do when you don't have a legitimate argument......
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Your post wasn't particularly well informed on the topic. I have discussed the details of the dilemma in other posts and I opted NOT to address YOUR points because it looks like you don't really understand the technical details and so I thought your usual input of stupidity was just going to drag things down.

You bore me with your ignorance.
 
Perry Phimosis said:
THIS reference doesn't quite see it that way.
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Appeal to holy link dismissed.

The holy link continues to ignore the actual position, which is a rejection of both options in favor of a third option, as I've already explained.

Perry Phimosis said:
It appears that Aquinas chooses the first horn of the dilemma (that God does what is Good) but then leverages that to come up with his Natural Law Theory.
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Your holy link source that you're blindly appealing to doesn't understand Aquinas's position, nor mine.

Perry Phimosis said:
But as far as I can tell there is no option for a "third" solution as you propose.
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Ignoring it doesn't make it go away, dude. I've already presented it to you. Pretending that it doesn't exist doesn't make it go away.

Perry Phimosis said:
Because what YOU propose is merely choosing the first horn of the dilemma.
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No, it isn't. It is completely and utterly REJECTING the first horn of the false dilemma. There is no standard that precedes or is above God. God is sovereign.

Perry Phimosis said:
You claim it is "inherent" to God.
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Yes. God is inherently good. Thus, his own nature/character is the standard of goodness. His declarations of goodness are based on his own immutably good nature/character. --- This squashes the false dilemma because in this case God is both supremely sovereign and his commands are not based on arbitrary whim.

Perry Phimosis said:
But that means it is a concept that MUST precede God. It must be something God was created with.
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No it doesn't. God was not created (he is the creator of all things). Nothing predates God. God always was, is, and will be.

God has a specific purpose for everything that he created. The ability to perform that designed purpose is what makes the creation "good" (e.g. "a sharp knife is good because it can cut through things with ease"; "a dull knife is bad because it can't cut through things very well").

This is why goodness stems directly from God, because God is the designer of all things.

Perry Phimosis said:
And if you suggest that God created that within himself then you are stuck with the second horn of the dilemma.
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God didn't create himself. God always was, is, and will be.

Perry Phimosis said:
There really isn't a third.
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Yes there is, and ignoring it doesn't make it go away.
 
gfm7175 said:
There is no standard that precedes or is above God. God is sovereign.
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Yes. God is inherently good. Thus, his own nature/character is the standard of goodness. His declarations of goodness are based on his own immutably good nature/character. --- This squashes the false dilemma because in this case God is both supremely sovereign and his commands are not based on arbitrary whim.
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No it doesn't. God was not created (he is the creator of all things). Nothing predates God. God always was, is, and will be.
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God has a specific purpose for everything that he created. The ability to perform that designed purpose is what makes the creation "good" (e.g. "a sharp knife is good because it can cut through things with ease"; "a dull knife is bad because it can't cut through things very well").

This is why goodness stems directly from God, because God is the designer of all things.
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God didn't create himself. God always was, is, and will be.
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Those are some very, very interesting blind guesses about the REALITY, gfm.

I wonder if any of them are correct.
 
Frank Apisa said:
Those are some very, very interesting blind guesses about the REALITY, gfm.

I wonder if any of them are correct.
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Those are all a part of my BELIEF that Jesus Christ exists and is who he says he is. Those all stem from that particular belief. I can't prove Christianity to be true, and you can't prove it to be false. It must be accepted/rejected on a faith basis, dude. I accept it as true, and you reject it as false (even though you pretend to not "pick a side"). We've been through this already; there's no need to continuously rehash it.

Edit: Oh, and you have no clue what 'reality' even is, dude.
 
gfm7175 said:
Those are all a part of my BELIEF that Jesus Christ exists and is who he says he is.
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Yup...another blind guess.

I wonder if IT is true.



Those all stem from that particular belief. I can't prove Christianity to be true, and you can't prove it to be false.
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Correct. Nor would I try to prove it to be false. I have no idea if it is true or false...so I just let it be. If you want to blindly guess it is true...do so. If others want to blindly guess it is false...they should do so also.


It must be accepted/rejected on a faith basis, dude.
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Yeah...that's the way it is with all blind guesses.


I accept it as true, and you reject it as false (even though you pretend to not "pick a side").
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I have no idea of why you suppose I "reject it as false." I DO NOT REJECT IT AS FALSE. I have no idea if it is true or false.

Why do you have so much trouble with that position? It is unassailable.


We've been through this already; there's no need to continuously rehash it.
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Obviously there is. You obviously do not get it.
 
NiftyNiblick said:
God exists because the bible says so.
The bible has to be right because it's the word of god.
No circular logic there.
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All religions make use of "circular logic" (argument of faith). That's not a logical fallacy, dude... Attempting to PROVE a circular argument is what is a fallacy.
 
Perry Phimosis said:
Your post wasn't particularly well informed on the topic. I have discussed the details of the dilemma in other posts and I opted NOT to address YOUR points because it looks like you don't really understand the technical details and so I thought your usual input of stupidity was just going to drag things down.

You bore me with your ignorance.
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on the other hand we've proved everything you've said is nothing but trash talk from an admitted weak minded atheist.......
 
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