The case for the Fair Tax; the time is NOW

[Dantès]

LOL, 30 out of how many corporations?

And "corporate income tax" isn't the only tax businesses pay, is it?

Shall we examine how many leftist think-tanks and "charities" pay no taxes?

BULLSHIT!

For youe information, you factually challenged cretin and Thomas to ILAs Scalia, you should read the whole page here before making any such stupid comment.

Originally Posted by Yoda: You're absolutely right we need a fair tax where the USA largest corporations finally start paying Federal income tax and guys like mitt romney pay more than 13% on 200,000,000 incomes. I paid a higher percentage of fed tax than he did and I make peanuts

Then your illiterate friend ignored that clear statement about Federal income taxes and said this irrelevant gibberish:

Yes Yoda; in your brain dead leftist world where you are fed your moronic talking points, corporations pay no taxes.

Then you followed that up with this increasingly erroneous and meaningless gibberish, all designed to change the conversation from federal income taxes to what B & O tax or what exactly, since the original comment was about Federal corporate income taxes any of these so-called rebuttals are just bullshit. And your shovelful looks like this:

LOL, 30 out of how many corporations?

And "corporate income tax" isn't the only tax businesses pay, is it?

Shall we examine how many leftist think-tanks and "charities" pay no taxes?

And then attempted to obfuscate further by talking about something else entirely. Which is what righties always do when they lose the argument. They try to change the subject to this time: think tanks? Because that is what we were all originally talking about wasn't it?

 

[Big Money]

I am jealous of corporate success even though I probably pay less in taxes than the corner store.

 

[Truth Detector]

God you are so full of shit. If there is anyone here who is a dullard and a fucking dimwit not to mention wrong about nearly everything over 95 percent of the time is is you you

And you are a dimwitted asshat determined to remove all doubt what a leftist talking point dullard you are and thinks that leftist blog sites contain anything remotely close to the facts.

You’re a thread trolling dullard of epic proportions who swills vast amounts of leftist kool-aid and have the intelligence of a shrew.

ThinkProgress is a dullard leftist blog devoted to disinformation and dullards like you who seek out anything that will affirm their dullard view of America.

You claim to be another teabgger smarty but you don't seem to have a damn cliue. Dullard doesn't even begin to describe your lack of actual evidence for anything you claim.

I’ve never made any claim to be a “teabagger” you incredibly stupid asshat. That’s the canard for brain dead morons like you who think waking up in the morning is your accomplishment for the day.

Now if you were not the painfully stupid dullard that you are, the claim was that corporations pay no taxes; corporations do pay state local and Federal taxes and that is a fact.

But because you are a dullard of epic proportions; any taxes Corporations DO pay are typically passed onto their consumers. This is a reality dullards like you cannot seem to comprehend in your desperate Marxist dullard viewpoints.

But the shareholders and employees of these corporations pay a vast amount of the taxes collected in this country and therefore, corporations do contribute a LOT in taxes by the employees that employ and the services they support.

Here’s the notes from those various corporations which explains their accounting treatments that reduced their tax liabilities which you dimwittedly like to overlook:

Company-by-company notes:

American Electric Power: Deferred taxes, driven primarily by accelerated depreciation, explain most of
the company’s low rates in each year from 2008 through 2011.

Apache: The study reversed impairments for the carrying value of oil and gas properties in 2009 and 2008.
Tax deferrals from “depreciation, depletion and amortization” explain much of the company’s low taxes in
2010 and 2009, but these items cut the other way in the previous two years. The Domestic Production
Activities Deduction saved the company $7 million in 2008. Note: In entering 2011 data for Apache, we
discovered that we had missed a well-hidden entry in Apache’s financial statements for excess stock option
tax benefits. Including these tax benefits lowered Apache’s effective 2008-10 tax rate from +0.6% to –1.5%.
As a result, we have included Apache in the 2008-10 no-tax list for this updated report.

Atmos Energy: The company’s fiscal years end in September of the years listed. Most of the company’s
tax breaks were due to tax deferrals, apparently related to accelerated depreciation.

Baxter International: For 2008-11, the company says that 41% of its revenues were in the U.S., but only
13% of its pretax profits were in the U.S., suggesting that it may be substantially understating its pretax U.S.
income. Excess tax benefits from stock options reduced federal and state taxes by $21 million, $41 million,
$96 million and $112 million in 2011, 2010, 2009 and 2008. The other sources of the company’s low taxes
are unclear.

Boeing: Tax deferrals, primarily relating to “inventory & long-term contract methods of income
recognition” saved the company $1,856 million, $969 million, $457 million and $1,151 million in 2011,
2010, 2009 and 2008.The research and experimentation tax credit saved the company $146 million, $158
million, $175 million and $172 million in the same years. Excess tax benefits from stock options reduced
federal and state taxes by $36 million, $19 million, $5 million and $100 million in the same years. The
company has paid no net federal income taxes for more than 10 years.

CenterPoint Energy: Tax deferrals, largely related to accelerated depreciation, explain most of the
company’s low taxes. The company does not appear to have paid any net federal income tax for at least 10
years.

CMS Energy: Tax deferrals, largely related to accelerated depreciation, explain most of the company’s low
taxes. The research and experimentation tax credit saved the company $3 million and $9 million in 2010
and 2009.

Consolidated Edison: Tax deferrals, largely related to accelerated depreciation, explain most of the
company’s low taxes. The company has paid an effective federal tax rate of only 2.2% over the past decade.
Con-way: Reported pretax profits in 2010, 2009 and 2008 were adjusted upward for non-cash goodwill
impairment charges. Tax deferrals, largely related to accelerated depreciation, explain most of the
company’s low taxes.

DTE Energy: We made minor corrections to the 2008-10 pretax U.S. profits we reported in our November
2011 study (to subtract state taxes, which the company previously had not disclosed). Tax deferrals, largely
related to accelerated depreciation, explain most of the company’s low taxes. The Domestic Production
Activities Deduction saved the company $7 million, $7 million, $5 million and $2 million in 2011, 2010,
2009 and 2008.

Duke Energy: Reported pretax profits in 2009 and 2010 were adjusted upward for a non-cash goodwill
impairment. Tax deferrals, largely related to accelerated depreciation, explain most of the company’s low
taxes. The Domestic Production Activities Deduction saved the company $18 million in 2008. Accelerated
depreciation saved the company substantial amounts in all four years.

DuPont: The company’s low taxes in 2008-10 reflect deferred taxes, primarily due to accelerated
deprecation. The high tax rate in 2011 reflects a turnaround in deferred taxes, but the source of this
turnaround is unclear.

El Paso Energy: The study reversed “ceiling test” impairments for the carrying value of oil and gas
properties in 2009 and 2008.

General Electric: The study adjusted U.S. pretax income by replacing the company’s provision for loan
losses with actual charges net of recoveries. This had the effect of increasing pretax income in 2009 and
2008 and reducing pretax income in 2010 and 2011. GE’s low taxes stem mainly from its finance arm, GE
Capital, which makes big profits, but generates huge tax “losses” that reduce GE’s taxable income from its
other operations. Over the past decade, GE has paid virtually nothing in federal income taxes, paying a
paltry 2.3% tax rate on its $83 billion in pretax U.S. profits.

Honeywell International: Deferred taxes, partially due to accelerated depreciation, explain much of the
company’s low tax rates in 2008-10. The high tax rate in 2011 reflected a turnaround in taxes previously
deferred. Excess tax benefits from stock options reduced federal and state taxes by $42 million, $13 million,
$1 million and $21 million in 2011, 2010, 2009 and 2008.

Integrys Energy Group: Reported pretax profits in 2008 were adjusted upward for a non-cash goodwill
impairment charge. Restructuring charges in 2009 were reassigned to the years when the money was spent.
Tax deferrals, largely related to accelerated depreciation, explain most of the company’s low taxes.
Interpublic: We missed a small excess stock option benefit in 2010 in our earlier study, which is corrected
here. The company has generated tax deferrals from “basis differences in intangible assets,” but these do
not fully explain its low federal income taxes.

Mattel: The company offered two versions of the geographic location of its profits. We used the more
plausible of the two. The company recorded minor restructuring charges in 2010, 2009 and 2008. The study
adjusted U.S. pretax profits for the current effect of those charges, which increased reported U.S. profits
slightly in 2009 and 2008 and reduced them slightly in 2010 and2011. Excess tax benefits from stock
options reduced (increased) federal and state taxes by $24 million, $8 million, $37 million and ($2) million
in 2011, 2010, 2009 and 2008.

Navistar International: The company’s fiscal years end in October of the years listed. The research and
experimentation tax credit saved the company $27 million, $2 million, $2 million and $8 million in 2011,
2010, 2009 and 2008. The other sources of the company’s low taxes are unclear.

NextEra Energy: Tax deferrals, mostly from accelerated depreciation, explain a portion of the company’s
low tax rates. The company has paid no net federal income taxes for at least the past 10 years.

NiSource: Tax deferrals, mostly from accelerated depreciation, explain almost all of the company’s low
tax rates. The Domestic Production Activities Deduction saved the company $1 million and $2 million in
2009 and 2008.

Paccar: The research and experimentation tax credit saved the company $5 million, $3 million, $4 million
and $6 million in 2011, 2010, 2009 and 2008. Excess tax benefits from stock options reduced federal and
state taxes by $5 million, $11 million, $7 million and $4 million in 2011, 2010, 2009 and 2008. Tax breaks
from depreciation, including leasing, explain much of the company’s low tax rates. The company’s 2010
tax was adjusted downward and profits adjusted slightly upward from our earlier report to account for stock
option tax breaks that we missed.

Pepco Holdings: The company recorded small restructuring charges in 2010. The study reallocated these
charges to the years they were actually spent. This slightly increased U.S. pretax profits in 2010 and slightly
reduced them in 2011. Tax deferrals, primarily from accelerated depreciation, reduced the company’s taxes
substantially, as did other factors. The company does not appear to have paid any net federal income tax for
at least a decade.

PG&E Corp.: The company’s low taxes stem primarily from tax deferrals, which in turn stem mostly from
accelerated depreciation.

Ryder System: Accelerated depreciation explains most of the company’s lack of taxes. Excess tax benefits
from stock options reduced federal and state taxes by $2 million, $1 million, $1 million and $6 million in
2010, 2009 and 2008.

Verizon Communications: We fixed the 2009 and 2010 pretax U.S. profits we reported for Verizon to
remove Vodaphone’s share of Verizon Wireless’s pretax profits. (An accounting change by Verizon starting
in 2009 included Vodaphone’s share of Verizon Wireless’s pretax profits in Verizon’s total pretax profits.)
This change had no effect on Verizon’s taxes paid, but slightly reduced Verizon’s 2008-10 effective tax rate.
In its 2010 report, the company changed its accounting method for pensions, and retroactively restated its
pretax profits for 2009 and 2008. The restatement had little effect for 2009. For 2008, our report uses the
profits actually reported in the company’s 2008 report. Accelerated depreciation and amortization comprised
most of the company’s tax subsidies. In 2008 and again in 2010, the company divested substantial assets
using a technique known as a “reverse Morris trust” transaction, saving an estimated $1.5 billion in federal
and state income taxes. Over a number of years, the company has deferred approximately $2.0 billion in
taxes as the lessor in leveraged leasing transactions of commercial aircraft, power generating facilities, real
estate, and other assets unrelated to their core business. Accelerated depreciation plays a key role in the
company’s low tax rates.

Wells Fargo: Because the company does not disclose U.S. and foreign pretax income, the study estimated
the company’s small amount of foreign pretax income based on reported current foreign income taxes.
Pretax income was adjusted by replacing the company’s non-cash “provision for loan losses” with actual
“charge-offs, net of recoveries.” This adjustment reduced pretax profits in 2011 and 2010 and increased
them in 2009 and 2008. Excess tax benefits from stock options reduced federal and state taxes by $79
million, $97 million, $18 million and $123 million in 2011, 2010, 2009 and 2008. Accelerated depreciation
associated with leasing saved the company significant amounts in all four years. A Bush Treasury
Department ruling in late 2008, which many tax experts have called illegal, allowed Wells Fargo to use “tax
losses” acquired from its acquisition of Wachovia. Utilization of these tax breaks appears to have cut Wells
Fargo’s taxes by more than $8 billion in 2009 and 2010.

Wisconsin Energy: Tax deferrals, mostly from accelerated depreciation, are the main driver of the
company’s low taxes. The Domestic Production Activities Deduction saved the company $13 million, $13
million, $8 million and $8 million in 2011, 2010, 2009 and 2008. Excess tax benefits from stock options
reduced federal and state taxes by $12 million, $22 million, $6 million and $3 million in the same years.

 

[Truth Detector]

The author continues the FT FRAUD. He is telling you that the FT is a 23% sales tax.

He want you to think that is something costs $100 BEFORE adding FT that the FT you would add is "only" $23 - BIG DECEPTION. you would add $30 and the total is $130.

In fact, the FT tell the merchant (Sec 509) to give the idiot buyer a receipt that shows 1) $100, 2) $30, 3) $130 and on line 4, tell him the RTE of FT is "only" 23%, but don't tell him how we derived that 23% rate.

They get that 23% rate by dividing the $30 in FT BY THE TOTAL INCLUDING THE FT, $130. They try to rationalize that view (that they still try to slip by people), but their
excuses make no financial sense - they are merely trying to fool us into thinking the rate is lower than it really is.

I have never seen a CPA that writes such poorly constructed sentences; or dimwitted enough to put a phone number on an internet blog site.

 

[Truth Detector]

The author's major point is the coomn FT myth that the underground economy will now be taxed, as if that underground economy will magically now become legal. That economy will remain underground and will avoid paying FT on their purchases. Economist at UT wrote a Paper saying that criminal will now pay the same tax just via a different method.

The author's claim totally ignores the fact that 320MM Americans will become FT-criminals by trying to avoid paying FT at every opportunity. Their evasion/avoidance will overwhelm any possible small increase in tax paid by the existing underground.

Do you have a link to that paper? For a CPA, your grammar is really bad.

So let me understand this; first, you think that the underground economy that currently exists does not exist as a result of the current tax code?

I would argue that it is a primary reason for it now. Because it is UNFAIR and an abomination.

Secondly, what happens when a drug dealer uses his illicit profits and buys a new Cadillac under the Fair Tax provisions? That's right; he is actually paying his taxes because the tax is collected at the time of sale and not relying on some falsified tax form using a system that is actually trust based on the threat of force.

But also in your dullard view, you think that the Flat Tax will do what the Fair Tax cannot; ensure everyone pays their fair share. Yet the system still relies on "trust" to honestly report, continues to be ineffective dealing with underground economies and requires the heavy threat of a massive Government to achieve compliance.

What you are also ignoring in your massive anti-Fair Tax tirade is the economic boom this will unleash and the massive amounts of compliance costs currently enslaving individuals and companies that your flat tax will not change.

What is better; not having any income taxes and never filling out another tax form and reducing the massive size of the IRS and various other agencies devoted to Government accounting for its revenues, or continuing the status quo and merely tweaking the system which the Flat Tax actually is.

I like that you appear to have done a lot of math, or have gotten from sources we are yet to find out about, but it is faulty math that is myopic in its conclusions and does not look at the WHOLE picture.

I am particularly amused by your reference to Karl Marx about a solution that significantly reduces the scope and size of Government. Are you really that stupid?

Here's a link; read about it instead of parrot the talking points of those too ignorant to understand the BIG picture.

http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer

 

[Truth Detector]

I read the book. It was an interesting read, but it doesn't have a prayer in hell of seeing the light of day.

First you have to repeal the 16th Amendment. Good luck with that

Second when you add in state and local sales taxes, you are approaching 30+%

Third, the prebate solidifies the notion of a progressive tax codes where certain individuals have no skin in the game.

The last point I would make about the "fair tax" is that it does nothing about the underlying problem which is profligate spending.

The gobblement run by the Rebublicrats will always think of new and inefficient ways to extract money from the productive people and transfer it to the least productive. We don't need another scheme that just ensconced the system in place.

So then your solution is do nothing and just raise our hands in submission to BIG Government and the lobbyists.

Sorry dude, I would rather try than surrender in abject defeat like a good little brain dead sheeple.

 

[Truth Detector]

Why didn't I enter the debate? Hmmmm. I didn't feel like it? Same reason lots of people didn't I guess.

But, now that I finally figured out who you are, this will be easy. You are just the same dumb twat you were when I chased you off of here a long time ago. You can keep humping my leg, but I have beaten down many a cunt like you in my time.

The list of libtardiot cunts who have tried to get me banned is long and illustrious, like my cock. But, I am still standing.

Do you really think a dumb cunt like you has what it takes to take me on? Seriously? Do you think you have something with the "You didn't participate in the debates" meme? Come on Bijou. I know you have been lurking over on HowAIDS board and he probably put you up to this as a way to skirt his 90 ban, but I am 1000 times smarter than you and queer boy put together.

Now run along cunt. Your pimp is going to want his money or you gonna get a beating like you did last time. Quit asking for it.

I really wish you both would not spam a thread like this; couldn't you have saved it for someone else's thread; like Desh's?

I'd like to stay on the topic.

 

[Truth Detector]

I strongly favor the NO fucking income taxation what so ever system. The federal government operated for over 100 years without the fucking extortion of an income tax. The progressive bastard Woodrow Wilson created the criminal income tax institution. That bastard is in my top 3 fucking worse Presidents ever to disgrace our White House.

Phase out every unconstitutional federal government program, reduce the Military Industrial Complex, repeal the sixteenth amendment and restore America’s freedom!!!!!

The current size of our population and complexity of this economy suggests that there still is a cost to running a Government that meets the Constitutional requirements of administering our laws, defending our borders and making treaties.

Let's try to have a rational and realistic view rather than an ideological one.

 

[Dantès]

And you are a dimwitted asshat determined to remove all doubt what a leftist talking point dullard you are and thinks that leftist blog sites contain anything remotely close to the facts.

You’re a thread trolling dullard of epic proportions who swills vast amounts of leftist kool-aid and have the intelligence of a shrew.

ThinkProgress is a dullard leftist blog devoted to disinformation and dullards like you who seek out anything that will affirm their dullard view of America.



I’ve never made any claim to be a “teabagger” you incredibly stupid asshat. That’s the canard for brain dead morons like you who think waking up in the morning is your accomplishment for the day.

Now if you were not the painfully stupid dullard that you are, the claim was that corporations pay no taxes; corporations do pay state local and Federal taxes and that is a fact.

But because you are a dullard of epic proportions; any taxes Corporations DO pay are typically passed onto their consumers. This is a reality dullards like you cannot seem to comprehend in your desperate Marxist dullard viewpoints.

But the shareholders and employees of these corporations pay a vast amount of the taxes collected in this country and therefore, corporations do contribute a LOT in taxes by the employees that employ and the services they support.

Here’s the notes from those various corporations which explains their accounting treatments that reduced their tax liabilities which you dimwittedly like to overlook:

Company-by-company notes:

American Electric Power: Deferred taxes, driven primarily by accelerated depreciation, explain most of
the company’s low rates in each year from 2008 through 2011.

Apache: The study reversed impairments for the carrying value of oil and gas properties in 2009 and 2008.
Tax deferrals from “depreciation, depletion and amortization” explain much of the company’s low taxes in
2010 and 2009, but these items cut the other way in the previous two years. The Domestic Production
Activities Deduction saved the company $7 million in 2008. Note: In entering 2011 data for Apache, we
discovered that we had missed a well-hidden entry in Apache’s financial statements for excess stock option
tax benefits. Including these tax benefits lowered Apache’s effective 2008-10 tax rate from +0.6% to –1.5%.
As a result, we have included Apache in the 2008-10 no-tax list for this updated report.

Atmos Energy: The company’s fiscal years end in September of the years listed. Most of the company’s
tax breaks were due to tax deferrals, apparently related to accelerated depreciation.

Baxter International: For 2008-11, the company says that 41% of its revenues were in the U.S., but only
13% of its pretax profits were in the U.S., suggesting that it may be substantially understating its pretax U.S.
income. Excess tax benefits from stock options reduced federal and state taxes by $21 million, $41 million,
$96 million and $112 million in 2011, 2010, 2009 and 2008. The other sources of the company’s low taxes
are unclear.

Boeing: Tax deferrals, primarily relating to “inventory & long-term contract methods of income
recognition” saved the company $1,856 million, $969 million, $457 million and $1,151 million in 2011,
2010, 2009 and 2008.The research and experimentation tax credit saved the company $146 million, $158
million, $175 million and $172 million in the same years. Excess tax benefits from stock options reduced
federal and state taxes by $36 million, $19 million, $5 million and $100 million in the same years. The
company has paid no net federal income taxes for more than 10 years.

CenterPoint Energy: Tax deferrals, largely related to accelerated depreciation, explain most of the
company’s low taxes. The company does not appear to have paid any net federal income tax for at least 10
years.

CMS Energy: Tax deferrals, largely related to accelerated depreciation, explain most of the company’s low
taxes. The research and experimentation tax credit saved the company $3 million and $9 million in 2010
and 2009.

Consolidated Edison: Tax deferrals, largely related to accelerated depreciation, explain most of the
company’s low taxes. The company has paid an effective federal tax rate of only 2.2% over the past decade.
Con-way: Reported pretax profits in 2010, 2009 and 2008 were adjusted upward for non-cash goodwill
impairment charges. Tax deferrals, largely related to accelerated depreciation, explain most of the
company’s low taxes.

DTE Energy: We made minor corrections to the 2008-10 pretax U.S. profits we reported in our November
2011 study (to subtract state taxes, which the company previously had not disclosed). Tax deferrals, largely
related to accelerated depreciation, explain most of the company’s low taxes. The Domestic Production
Activities Deduction saved the company $7 million, $7 million, $5 million and $2 million in 2011, 2010,
2009 and 2008.

Duke Energy: Reported pretax profits in 2009 and 2010 were adjusted upward for a non-cash goodwill
impairment. Tax deferrals, largely related to accelerated depreciation, explain most of the company’s low
taxes. The Domestic Production Activities Deduction saved the company $18 million in 2008. Accelerated
depreciation saved the company substantial amounts in all four years.

DuPont: The company’s low taxes in 2008-10 reflect deferred taxes, primarily due to accelerated
deprecation. The high tax rate in 2011 reflects a turnaround in deferred taxes, but the source of this
turnaround is unclear.

El Paso Energy: The study reversed “ceiling test” impairments for the carrying value of oil and gas
properties in 2009 and 2008.

General Electric: The study adjusted U.S. pretax income by replacing the company’s provision for loan
losses with actual charges net of recoveries. This had the effect of increasing pretax income in 2009 and
2008 and reducing pretax income in 2010 and 2011. GE’s low taxes stem mainly from its finance arm, GE
Capital, which makes big profits, but generates huge tax “losses” that reduce GE’s taxable income from its
other operations. Over the past decade, GE has paid virtually nothing in federal income taxes, paying a
paltry 2.3% tax rate on its $83 billion in pretax U.S. profits.

Honeywell International: Deferred taxes, partially due to accelerated depreciation, explain much of the
company’s low tax rates in 2008-10. The high tax rate in 2011 reflected a turnaround in taxes previously
deferred. Excess tax benefits from stock options reduced federal and state taxes by $42 million, $13 million,
$1 million and $21 million in 2011, 2010, 2009 and 2008.

Integrys Energy Group: Reported pretax profits in 2008 were adjusted upward for a non-cash goodwill
impairment charge. Restructuring charges in 2009 were reassigned to the years when the money was spent.
Tax deferrals, largely related to accelerated depreciation, explain most of the company’s low taxes.
Interpublic: We missed a small excess stock option benefit in 2010 in our earlier study, which is corrected
here. The company has generated tax deferrals from “basis differences in intangible assets,” but these do
not fully explain its low federal income taxes.

Mattel: The company offered two versions of the geographic location of its profits. We used the more
plausible of the two. The company recorded minor restructuring charges in 2010, 2009 and 2008. The study
adjusted U.S. pretax profits for the current effect of those charges, which increased reported U.S. profits
slightly in 2009 and 2008 and reduced them slightly in 2010 and2011. Excess tax benefits from stock
options reduced (increased) federal and state taxes by $24 million, $8 million, $37 million and ($2) million
in 2011, 2010, 2009 and 2008.

Navistar International: The company’s fiscal years end in October of the years listed. The research and
experimentation tax credit saved the company $27 million, $2 million, $2 million and $8 million in 2011,
2010, 2009 and 2008. The other sources of the company’s low taxes are unclear.

NextEra Energy: Tax deferrals, mostly from accelerated depreciation, explain a portion of the company’s
low tax rates. The company has paid no net federal income taxes for at least the past 10 years.

NiSource: Tax deferrals, mostly from accelerated depreciation, explain almost all of the company’s low
tax rates. The Domestic Production Activities Deduction saved the company $1 million and $2 million in
2009 and 2008.

Paccar: The research and experimentation tax credit saved the company $5 million, $3 million, $4 million
and $6 million in 2011, 2010, 2009 and 2008. Excess tax benefits from stock options reduced federal and
state taxes by $5 million, $11 million, $7 million and $4 million in 2011, 2010, 2009 and 2008. Tax breaks
from depreciation, including leasing, explain much of the company’s low tax rates. The company’s 2010
tax was adjusted downward and profits adjusted slightly upward from our earlier report to account for stock
option tax breaks that we missed.

Pepco Holdings: The company recorded small restructuring charges in 2010. The study reallocated these
charges to the years they were actually spent. This slightly increased U.S. pretax profits in 2010 and slightly
reduced them in 2011. Tax deferrals, primarily from accelerated depreciation, reduced the company’s taxes
substantially, as did other factors. The company does not appear to have paid any net federal income tax for
at least a decade.

PG&E Corp.: The company’s low taxes stem primarily from tax deferrals, which in turn stem mostly from
accelerated depreciation.

Ryder System: Accelerated depreciation explains most of the company’s lack of taxes. Excess tax benefits
from stock options reduced federal and state taxes by $2 million, $1 million, $1 million and $6 million in
2010, 2009 and 2008.

Verizon Communications: We fixed the 2009 and 2010 pretax U.S. profits we reported for Verizon to
remove Vodaphone’s share of Verizon Wireless’s pretax profits. (An accounting change by Verizon starting
in 2009 included Vodaphone’s share of Verizon Wireless’s pretax profits in Verizon’s total pretax profits.)
This change had no effect on Verizon’s taxes paid, but slightly reduced Verizon’s 2008-10 effective tax rate.
In its 2010 report, the company changed its accounting method for pensions, and retroactively restated its
pretax profits for 2009 and 2008. The restatement had little effect for 2009. For 2008, our report uses the
profits actually reported in the company’s 2008 report. Accelerated depreciation and amortization comprised
most of the company’s tax subsidies. In 2008 and again in 2010, the company divested substantial assets
using a technique known as a “reverse Morris trust” transaction, saving an estimated $1.5 billion in federal
and state income taxes. Over a number of years, the company has deferred approximately $2.0 billion in
taxes as the lessor in leveraged leasing transactions of commercial aircraft, power generating facilities, real
estate, and other assets unrelated to their core business. Accelerated depreciation plays a key role in the
company’s low tax rates.

Wells Fargo: Because the company does not disclose U.S. and foreign pretax income, the study estimated
the company’s small amount of foreign pretax income based on reported current foreign income taxes.
Pretax income was adjusted by replacing the company’s non-cash “provision for loan losses” with actual
“charge-offs, net of recoveries.” This adjustment reduced pretax profits in 2011 and 2010 and increased
them in 2009 and 2008. Excess tax benefits from stock options reduced federal and state taxes by $79
million, $97 million, $18 million and $123 million in 2011, 2010, 2009 and 2008. Accelerated depreciation
associated with leasing saved the company significant amounts in all four years. A Bush Treasury
Department ruling in late 2008, which many tax experts have called illegal, allowed Wells Fargo to use “tax
losses” acquired from its acquisition of Wachovia. Utilization of these tax breaks appears to have cut Wells
Fargo’s taxes by more than $8 billion in 2009 and 2010.

Wisconsin Energy: Tax deferrals, mostly from accelerated depreciation, are the main driver of the
company’s low taxes. The Domestic Production Activities Deduction saved the company $13 million, $13
million, $8 million and $8 million in 2011, 2010, 2009 and 2008. Excess tax benefits from stock options
reduced federal and state taxes by $12 million, $22 million, $6 million and $3 million in the same years.

As you can see from all the parts that I have highlighted b bolding them to bring them out much of this is either a result of special favors granted or generated by special legislation or the actions are just plain unexplainable. In short far too many of these companies pay no income tax and several of them haven't paid any or so little it is ridiculous for the last ten years. Completely missing the point that this was the claim in the first place but that is how righties do it they will post things that undercut their own claims just to make it appear that they aren't blowing smoke when blowing smoke is really all they do!

 

[Dantès]

I really wish you both would not spam a thread like this; couldn't you have saved it for someone else's thread; like Desh's?

I'd like to stay on the topic.

Trouble in Rightie Paradise? Say it isn't soooo!

The Top Asshole contestants are having a little shakedown!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

[YANKEE]

yankie the wankie dude you have to have taxes to pay for them.

your not too bright huh

Come back when you learn to write like an adult and perhaps then you might be ble to make an intelligent coherent statement.

 

[YANKEE]

Spoilsport! There you go again making everything all complicated and connected when Yankee Wankee was doing his best to pretend that none of it was connected in any way by doing what Teabaggers do best, playing dumb. We know that wars cost money and that money had to come from somewhere but Teabaggers refuse to see the connection. So a discussion of taxes can't include government expenditures or corporate largesse. Or even the tax loopholes that allow the Romneys and other multimillionaires of America to pay less as a percentage of their earnings than a single wage earner at the $25,000 a year level.

I did not major in Psychology and so I am not qualified to diagnose your emotional issues that cause you to express yourself so poorly. Of course we need money to pay the military (and very little else, according to the Constitution) and we need to ALLOCATE that cost to our citizens.

A very Flat Income Tax (10% rate NO: Exemptions, Deductions, or Credits, with owners - not corporations - paying the IT calculated on a very simple basis), would be a huge step in the right direction, curing 90% of the problems with the current IT. No more corporate tax welfare.

If you have an intelligent comment tat you can express clearly, please try it.

 

[YANKEE]

Nope


now how did the country run when taxes on the wealthy were higher?

Can you write in complete sentences?

"NOPE" - What????

Are you offering the idiotic claim that the country "ran better" BECAUSE Income Taxes on the wealth were much higher? If so, your mind is not worth trying to educate.

 

[YANKEE]

Before I walk your fabricated version of the Fair Tax back, I would like to know where you got this amzingly false information.

Care to share?

I merely spent hundreds of hours of studied the FT statute, read a few books, read several economics Papers, consulted with others, thought through the practical implications and judged it likely outcomes and what are its practical realities - all using a lifetime of professional experience in tax practice. What did you do?

I await your "walk back my version" of the facts. "Go ahead, make my day."

 

[YANKEE]

God you are so full of shit. If there is anyone here who is a dullard and a fucking dimwit not to mention wrong about nearly everything over 95 percent of the time is is you you ignoramus.

You claim to be another teabgger smarty but you don't seem to have a damn cliue. Dullard doesn't even begin to describe your lack of actual evidence for anything you claim.



26 Major Corporations Paid No Corporate Income Tax For The Last Four Years, Despite Making Billions In Profits
BY PAT GAROFALO ON APRIL 9, 2012 AT 12:00 PM

Last year, Citizens for Tax Justice found that 30 major corporations had made billions of dollars in profits while paying no federal income tax between 2008 and 2010. Today, CTJ updated that report to reflect the 2011 tax bill of those 30 companies, and 26 of them have still managed to pay absolutely nothing over that four year period:

26 of the 30 companies continued to enjoy negative federal income tax rates. That means they still made more money after tax than before tax over the four years!

Of the remaining four companies, three paid four year effective tax rates of less than 4 percent
(specifically, 0.2%, 2.0% and 3.8%). One company paid a 2008-11 tax rate of 10.9 percent.

In total, 2008-11 federal income taxes for the 30 companies remained negative, despite $205 billion in pretax U.S. profits. Overall, they enjoyed an average effective federal income tax rate of –3.1 percent over the four years.

Amongst the 30 are corporate titans such as General Electric, Boeing, Verizon, and Mattel. The only four companies that slipped into positive tax territory were DTE Energy, Honeywell, Wells Fargo, and DuPont, with DuPont the only one that paid more than 4 percent over the four years.

Corporate taxes in the U.S., contrary to the constant protestations of conservatives, are at a 40 year low, with many of the most profitable companies paying nothing at all. CTJ noted that “had these 30 companies paid the full 35 percent corporate tax rate over the 2008-11 period, they would have paid $78.3 billion more in federal income taxes.”

And this is not a problem that only afflicts the U.S., as the UK found out last week that online retailer Amazon made billions in sales in 2011, while paying nothing in corporate taxes.


http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2012/04/09/460519

You cry out about 26 companies not paying US tax. Yes, there are some that take advantage of every (LEGAL) loophole and they should not be pilloried from doing what is LEGAL - what we need to do is fix the system to eliminate loopholes, such a a simply calculated Flat Income Tax where the income is taxed directly to owners.

Also, i is a superficial mistake to criticize these corporation - GE is usually the poster child. A large portion of their earnings were overseas and not remitted (just like Toyota which 9 plants in the US). Another BIG reason was the fact that GE was carrying forward a HUGE tax loss from the prior year in which they had GIGANTIC losses. Such maters truly require a much deeper understanding.

 

[YANKEE]

Youre absolutely right we need a fair tax where the USA largest corporations finally start paying Federal income tax and guys like mitt romney pay more than 13% on 200,000,000 incomes. I paid a higher percentage of fed tax than he did and I make peanuts

To add to my earlier comment. You exaggerate foolishly Romney made $20MM (not $200MM). Again, he paid that year $3MM in fed IT, $1MM in MA IT and $3MM in charitable contributions.

Comrade, go back to your commune quietly until you make such contributions to society.

 

[YANKEE]

And you are a dimwitted asshat determined to remove all doubt what a leftist talking point dullard you are and thinks that leftist blog sites contain anything remotely close to the facts.

You’re a thread trolling dullard of epic proportions who swills vast amounts of leftist kool-aid and have the intelligence of a shrew.

ThinkProgress is a dullard leftist blog devoted to disinformation and dullards like you who seek out anything that will affirm their dullard view of America.



I’ve never made any claim to be a “teabagger” you incredibly stupid asshat. That’s the canard for brain dead morons like you who think waking up in the morning is your accomplishment for the day.

Now if you were not the painfully stupid dullard that you are, the claim was that corporations pay no taxes; corporations do pay state local and Federal taxes and that is a fact.

But because you are a dullard of epic proportions; any taxes Corporations DO pay are typically passed onto their consumers. This is a reality dullards like you cannot seem to comprehend in your desperate Marxist dullard viewpoints.

But the shareholders and employees of these corporations pay a vast amount of the taxes collected in this country and therefore, corporations do contribute a LOT in taxes by the employees that employ and the services they support.

Here’s the notes from those various corporations which explains their accounting treatments that reduced their tax liabilities which you dimwittedly like to overlook:

Company-by-company notes:

American Electric Power: Deferred taxes, driven primarily by accelerated depreciation, explain most of
the company’s low rates in each year from 2008 through 2011.

Apache: The study reversed impairments for the carrying value of oil and gas properties in 2009 and 2008.
Tax deferrals from “depreciation, depletion and amortization” explain much of the company’s low taxes in
2010 and 2009, but these items cut the other way in the previous two years. The Domestic Production
Activities Deduction saved the company $7 million in 2008. Note: In entering 2011 data for Apache, we
discovered that we had missed a well-hidden entry in Apache’s financial statements for excess stock option
tax benefits. Including these tax benefits lowered Apache’s effective 2008-10 tax rate from +0.6% to –1.5%.
As a result, we have included Apache in the 2008-10 no-tax list for this updated report.

Atmos Energy: The company’s fiscal years end in September of the years listed. Most of the company’s
tax breaks were due to tax deferrals, apparently related to accelerated depreciation.

Baxter International: For 2008-11, the company says that 41% of its revenues were in the U.S., but only
13% of its pretax profits were in the U.S., suggesting that it may be substantially understating its pretax U.S.
income. Excess tax benefits from stock options reduced federal and state taxes by $21 million, $41 million,
$96 million and $112 million in 2011, 2010, 2009 and 2008. The other sources of the company’s low taxes
are unclear.

Boeing: Tax deferrals, primarily relating to “inventory & long-term contract methods of income
recognition” saved the company $1,856 million, $969 million, $457 million and $1,151 million in 2011,
2010, 2009 and 2008.The research and experimentation tax credit saved the company $146 million, $158
million, $175 million and $172 million in the same years. Excess tax benefits from stock options reduced
federal and state taxes by $36 million, $19 million, $5 million and $100 million in the same years. The
company has paid no net federal income taxes for more than 10 years.

CenterPoint Energy: Tax deferrals, largely related to accelerated depreciation, explain most of the
company’s low taxes. The company does not appear to have paid any net federal income tax for at least 10
years.

CMS Energy: Tax deferrals, largely related to accelerated depreciation, explain most of the company’s low
taxes. The research and experimentation tax credit saved the company $3 million and $9 million in 2010
and 2009.

Consolidated Edison: Tax deferrals, largely related to accelerated depreciation, explain most of the
company’s low taxes. The company has paid an effective federal tax rate of only 2.2% over the past decade.
Con-way: Reported pretax profits in 2010, 2009 and 2008 were adjusted upward for non-cash goodwill
impairment charges. Tax deferrals, largely related to accelerated depreciation, explain most of the
company’s low taxes.

DTE Energy: We made minor corrections to the 2008-10 pretax U.S. profits we reported in our November
2011 study (to subtract state taxes, which the company previously had not disclosed). Tax deferrals, largely
related to accelerated depreciation, explain most of the company’s low taxes. The Domestic Production
Activities Deduction saved the company $7 million, $7 million, $5 million and $2 million in 2011, 2010,
2009 and 2008.

Duke Energy: Reported pretax profits in 2009 and 2010 were adjusted upward for a non-cash goodwill
impairment. Tax deferrals, largely related to accelerated depreciation, explain most of the company’s low
taxes. The Domestic Production Activities Deduction saved the company $18 million in 2008. Accelerated
depreciation saved the company substantial amounts in all four years.

DuPont: The company’s low taxes in 2008-10 reflect deferred taxes, primarily due to accelerated
deprecation. The high tax rate in 2011 reflects a turnaround in deferred taxes, but the source of this
turnaround is unclear.

El Paso Energy: The study reversed “ceiling test” impairments for the carrying value of oil and gas
properties in 2009 and 2008.

General Electric: The study adjusted U.S. pretax income by replacing the company’s provision for loan
losses with actual charges net of recoveries. This had the effect of increasing pretax income in 2009 and
2008 and reducing pretax income in 2010 and 2011. GE’s low taxes stem mainly from its finance arm, GE
Capital, which makes big profits, but generates huge tax “losses” that reduce GE’s taxable income from its
other operations. Over the past decade, GE has paid virtually nothing in federal income taxes, paying a
paltry 2.3% tax rate on its $83 billion in pretax U.S. profits.

Honeywell International: Deferred taxes, partially due to accelerated depreciation, explain much of the
company’s low tax rates in 2008-10. The high tax rate in 2011 reflected a turnaround in taxes previously
deferred. Excess tax benefits from stock options reduced federal and state taxes by $42 million, $13 million,
$1 million and $21 million in 2011, 2010, 2009 and 2008.

Integrys Energy Group: Reported pretax profits in 2008 were adjusted upward for a non-cash goodwill
impairment charge. Restructuring charges in 2009 were reassigned to the years when the money was spent.
Tax deferrals, largely related to accelerated depreciation, explain most of the company’s low taxes.
Interpublic: We missed a small excess stock option benefit in 2010 in our earlier study, which is corrected
here. The company has generated tax deferrals from “basis differences in intangible assets,” but these do
not fully explain its low federal income taxes.

Mattel: The company offered two versions of the geographic location of its profits. We used the more
plausible of the two. The company recorded minor restructuring charges in 2010, 2009 and 2008. The study
adjusted U.S. pretax profits for the current effect of those charges, which increased reported U.S. profits
slightly in 2009 and 2008 and reduced them slightly in 2010 and2011. Excess tax benefits from stock
options reduced (increased) federal and state taxes by $24 million, $8 million, $37 million and ($2) million
in 2011, 2010, 2009 and 2008.

Navistar International: The company’s fiscal years end in October of the years listed. The research and
experimentation tax credit saved the company $27 million, $2 million, $2 million and $8 million in 2011,
2010, 2009 and 2008. The other sources of the company’s low taxes are unclear.

NextEra Energy: Tax deferrals, mostly from accelerated depreciation, explain a portion of the company’s
low tax rates. The company has paid no net federal income taxes for at least the past 10 years.

NiSource: Tax deferrals, mostly from accelerated depreciation, explain almost all of the company’s low
tax rates. The Domestic Production Activities Deduction saved the company $1 million and $2 million in
2009 and 2008.

Paccar: The research and experimentation tax credit saved the company $5 million, $3 million, $4 million
and $6 million in 2011, 2010, 2009 and 2008. Excess tax benefits from stock options reduced federal and
state taxes by $5 million, $11 million, $7 million and $4 million in 2011, 2010, 2009 and 2008. Tax breaks
from depreciation, including leasing, explain much of the company’s low tax rates. The company’s 2010
tax was adjusted downward and profits adjusted slightly upward from our earlier report to account for stock
option tax breaks that we missed.

Pepco Holdings: The company recorded small restructuring charges in 2010. The study reallocated these
charges to the years they were actually spent. This slightly increased U.S. pretax profits in 2010 and slightly
reduced them in 2011. Tax deferrals, primarily from accelerated depreciation, reduced the company’s taxes
substantially, as did other factors. The company does not appear to have paid any net federal income tax for
at least a decade.

PG&E Corp.: The company’s low taxes stem primarily from tax deferrals, which in turn stem mostly from
accelerated depreciation.

Ryder System: Accelerated depreciation explains most of the company’s lack of taxes. Excess tax benefits
from stock options reduced federal and state taxes by $2 million, $1 million, $1 million and $6 million in
2010, 2009 and 2008.

Verizon Communications: We fixed the 2009 and 2010 pretax U.S. profits we reported for Verizon to
remove Vodaphone’s share of Verizon Wireless’s pretax profits. (An accounting change by Verizon starting
in 2009 included Vodaphone’s share of Verizon Wireless’s pretax profits in Verizon’s total pretax profits.)
This change had no effect on Verizon’s taxes paid, but slightly reduced Verizon’s 2008-10 effective tax rate.
In its 2010 report, the company changed its accounting method for pensions, and retroactively restated its
pretax profits for 2009 and 2008. The restatement had little effect for 2009. For 2008, our report uses the
profits actually reported in the company’s 2008 report. Accelerated depreciation and amortization comprised
most of the company’s tax subsidies. In 2008 and again in 2010, the company divested substantial assets
using a technique known as a “reverse Morris trust” transaction, saving an estimated $1.5 billion in federal
and state income taxes. Over a number of years, the company has deferred approximately $2.0 billion in
taxes as the lessor in leveraged leasing transactions of commercial aircraft, power generating facilities, real
estate, and other assets unrelated to their core business. Accelerated depreciation plays a key role in the
company’s low tax rates.

Wells Fargo: Because the company does not disclose U.S. and foreign pretax income, the study estimated
the company’s small amount of foreign pretax income based on reported current foreign income taxes.
Pretax income was adjusted by replacing the company’s non-cash “provision for loan losses” with actual
“charge-offs, net of recoveries.” This adjustment reduced pretax profits in 2011 and 2010 and increased
them in 2009 and 2008. Excess tax benefits from stock options reduced federal and state taxes by $79
million, $97 million, $18 million and $123 million in 2011, 2010, 2009 and 2008. Accelerated depreciation
associated with leasing saved the company significant amounts in all four years. A Bush Treasury
Department ruling in late 2008, which many tax experts have called illegal, allowed Wells Fargo to use “tax
losses” acquired from its acquisition of Wachovia. Utilization of these tax breaks appears to have cut Wells
Fargo’s taxes by more than $8 billion in 2009 and 2010.

Wisconsin Energy: Tax deferrals, mostly from accelerated depreciation, are the main driver of the
company’s low taxes. The Domestic Production Activities Deduction saved the company $13 million, $13
million, $8 million and $8 million in 2011, 2010, 2009 and 2008. Excess tax benefits from stock options
reduced federal and state taxes by $12 million, $22 million, $6 million and $3 million in the same years.

Tax DEFERRALS are NOT the same thing as EXEMPTIONS,CREDITS, or DEDUCTIONS. They are POSTPONEMENTS of IT not permanent forgiveness.

 

[YANKEE]

I have never seen a CPA that writes such poorly constructed sentences; or dimwitted enough to put a phone number on an internet blog site.

I am sorry my writing skills are not as good as my math skills but I can usually explain myself on complex matters.

I am confident that Readers have noticed that, besides the fact that all you have is Saul Alinsky ad hominem attacks, you did NOT address the specifics of what I wrote about the FT's superficial attempt to defraud the public with its "only" 23% nonsense - one of the FT's many deceptions.

 

[The Dude]

The tax good is way too good to the middle class to be changed for a stupid scheme like the fair tax.

 

[YANKEE]

Do you have a link to that paper? For a CPA, your grammar is really bad.

So let me understand this; first, you think that the underground economy that currently exists does not exist as a result of the current tax code?

I would argue that it is a primary reason for it now. Because it is UNFAIR and an abomination.

Secondly, what happens when a drug dealer uses his illicit profits and buys a new Cadillac under the Fair Tax provisions? That's right; he is actually paying his taxes because the tax is collected at the time of sale and not relying on some falsified tax form using a system that is actually trust based on the threat of force.

But also in your dullard view, you think that the Flat Tax will do what the Fair Tax cannot; ensure everyone pays their fair share. Yet the system still relies on "trust" to honestly report, continues to be ineffective dealing with underground economies and requires the heavy threat of a massive Government to achieve compliance.

What you are also ignoring in your massive anti-Fair Tax tirade is the economic boom this will unleash and the massive amounts of compliance costs currently enslaving individuals and companies that your flat tax will not change.

What is better; not having any income taxes and never filling out another tax form and reducing the massive size of the IRS and various other agencies devoted to Government accounting for its revenues, or continuing the status quo and merely tweaking the system which the Flat Tax actually is.

I like that you appear to have done a lot of math, or have gotten from sources we are yet to find out about, but it is faulty math that is myopic in its conclusions and does not look at the WHOLE picture.

I am particularly amused by your reference to Karl Marx about a solution that significantly reduces the scope and size of Government. Are you really that stupid?

Here's a link; read about it instead of parrot the talking points of those too ignorant to understand the BIG picture.

http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer

Your thought process (or merely your false argument style) confuses me.

You seem confused. A CRIMINAL underground exists to make $ by conducting illegal activities. In addition some LEGAL activities are conducted by TAX EVADERS.

You pick a car, which is highly regulated/registered. Most spending is NOT. Drug dealers will find a way to avoid paying 40-70% sales taxes (even on cars) mainly by using CASH in the Black Market, using businesses,and a host of new, creative methods.

What you don't understand is that there will be LESS evasion with a 10% rate than thee is today. More important is the fact that today's tax collection are AFTER evasion, but the FT revenue targets (i.e., the same as today's) is AFTER evasion AND the FT incredibly "assumes" ZERO evasion AND ZERO voluntary spending reduction in reaction to the 40-70% sales tax rate (Perhaps on Planet FT, but not here).

Ah, the "economic boom". Not only are you a grammar critic, but you are also a Prophet who can GUARANTEE future economic results - AWESOME!

You make several naive/deceptive comments in 1 sentence. No Filing; you may well have to file an "Annual FT Summary" if the new IRS (STAA) is tasked with protecting the revenue - I would do that if I were in charge. NEW IRS (STAA) will be BIGGER and its audits would be MORE INTRUSIVE than today's audits. My Flat tax is NOT a mere tweak - it is massive radical surgery which neuters the IRS.

Understandably, you fail to be specific in your claim that my math is wrong. Be specific and i will explain.

My reference to Karl Marx is specifically targeted at the important principle of wealth redistribution- the FT INCREASES WEALTH REDISTRIBUTION. Your belief that the FT reduces the govt is naive - it is KOOL-AID induced euphoria.

You ask people to read the FT pure sales-hype, propaganda - I offer to expose all of it.

Go to fairtaxblog.com; right side, 2nd item - Fair Tax-Related Research. There you will find the 1995 Paper by the 2 UT economists that I referred to, as well as a number of (mostly) economics Papers, several of which I have reviewed and analyzed, finding outrageous flaws.