The existence of Israel is proof there is no God

Hate to sound like a pessimist but even the briefest of glances through human history shows that goodness rarely if ever plays a part in geopolitics.
 
AnyOldIron said:
Israel has gotten to the point where it is losing its humanity when it reacts. The reaction is always excessive.

After years of being under attack from without and within, you can certainly see the root of their excess, even though that doesn't excuse it.

But Hamas are very cynical in their approach. They play to the court of global public opinion with the lives of their children.

They fire rockets they know are ineffectual and unlikely to cause significant death tolls because they know that the Israeli reaction will be excessive. They fire these rockets from civilian areas; schools, hospitals etc to draw that excessive fire. And then play this up to the world media to generate sympathy for their cause. That is sickeningly cynical.

Considering neither side has a legitimate claim to the land, both sides are twats.
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There's a lot of misinformation evident in your post .
For one- Hamas ceased attacking Israel directly some time ago as a matter of policy. Hamas now responds only when it is attacked but the Western press only reports the Hamas response and not the Israeli aggression. This gives precisely the wrong account of events that the Israelis want. Unsurprisingly, many of the Western media outlets are owned by billionaire supporters of Zionism. So the best way for the Zionists to have Hamas condemned is for the Zionists to attack Hamas. Which they frequently do.
Secondly, Gaza is utterly impoverished- due to Israelis' illegal attacks and the Israeli illegal blockade- and Gazans have to adapt to poverty and earn a living. One way that some do this is to fire rockettes into Israel which have been commisioned by families which have had a relative of friend murdered by the Israelis. For a sum of money or a promised favour the guerrilla brigades - not Hamas- will fire into Israel. Of course we all know that these rockettes are relatively harmless. They are inaccurate and carry no warhead. Very few Israelis have been killed or injured by them. Also, the main target for the rockettes is the nearby settlement known as Sderot. Sderot is actually the Palestinian village of Nadj- from which the Zionists drove the indigenous Palestinian people in the early 1950s. The Palestinians are actually firing at the illegal occupants of their own Palestinian homes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sderot
Lastly, Gaza is the most densely populated region on earth. To say that the rockette brigades deliberately site their launchers near hospitals and schools is a nonsense. It is the Israelis who deliberately target such buildings as a form of- illegal- collective punishment of Palestinians. They also target other aspects of Palestinian civilisation, such as water plants and generators. They started their ' Cast Lead ' offensive by murdering a square full of Palestinian police cadets on parade. Such attacks are part of the neoZionist ethnic cleansing policy.
It is wholly inaccurate to blame the Palestinians for any aspect of the invasion of their own country. You would not be blamed for resisting invasion of yours- except by the invaders.
 
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moon2012 said:
There's a lot of misinformation evident in your post .
For one- Hamas ceased attacking Israel directly some time ago as a matter of policy. Hamas now responds only when it is attacked but the Western press only reports the Hamas response and not the Israeli aggression. This gives precisely the wrong account of events that the Israelis want. Unsurprisingly, many of the Western media outlets are owned by billionaire supporters of Zionism. So the best way for the Zionists to have Hamas condemned is for the Zionists to attack Hamas. Which they frequently do.
Secondly, Gaza is utterly impoverished- due to Israelis' illegal attacks and the Israeli illegal blockade- and Gazans have to adapt to poverty and earn a living. One way that some do this is to fire rockettes into Israel which have been commisioned by families which have had a relative of friend murdered by the Israelis. For a sum of money or a promised favour the guerrilla brigades - not Hamas- will fire into Israel. Of course we all know that these rockettes are relatively harmless. They are inaccurate and carry no warhead. Very few Israelis have been killed or injured by them. Also, the main target for the rockettes is the nearby settlement known as Sderot. Sderot is actually the Palestinian village of Nadj- from which the Zionists drove the indigenous Palestinian people in the early 1950s. The Palestinians are actually firing at the illegal occupants of their own Palestinian homes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sderot
Lastly, Gaza is the most densely populated region on earth. To say that the rockette brigades deliberately site their launchers near hospitals and schools is a nonsense. It is the Israelis who deliberately target such buildings as a form of- illegal- collective punishment of Palestinians. They also target other aspects of Palestinian civilisation, such as water plants and generators. They started their ' Cast Lead ' offensive by murdering a square full of Palestinian police cadets on parade. Such attacks are part of the neoZionist ethnic cleansing policy.
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Your interpretation of what has occurred over the last few years is entirely one sided, your use of language clearly indicates that you have a partisan opinion on the situation and it is pretty much impossible to discuss anything with a confirmed partisan because they never see issue with the side they have adopted.

Simply presenting details of the excessive violence that I have mentioned several times coming from the IDF, doesn't negate the fact that, particularly in 2014, Hamas (or partners) fired barrages of ineffective rockets at Israeli targets knowing exactly what the Israeli response would be. The evidence of this is undeniable.

Switching tactics to knife attacks produces exactly the same effect, designed to prompt an overreaction by the Israelis to play court to global public opinion.

And this Desh, is another reason why there will never be peace in this land. Neither side, nor their partisans, will ever admit to doing any wrong. Both sides see themselves as innocents. I'm sure the Germans will have a name for this form of myopic delusion.
 
An example of how language used indicates partisan allegiance, that you are buying into one side's propaganda.

For one- Hamas ceased attacking Israel directly some time ago as a matter of policy. Hamas now responds only when it is attacked
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What you really have here is a tit for tat situation. Each side will look back at the last attack on them to justify their next attack. It is impossible to identify one side as the initial aggressor because tit for tat violence is cyclic.

Anyone who has kids will recognise this. "He kicked me", "yeah because she pinched me", " that's because he pulled the head off my doll", "yeah because she tripped me up" etc etc ad nauseum.

The truth is, both sides are wrong. As a parent you separate them and tell them both off.

The quoted paragraph shows no balance, it is telling one child off, whilst ignoring the actions and tit for tat behaviour of the other.
 
AnyOldIron said:
An example of how language used indicates partisan allegiance, that you are buying into one side's propaganda.



What you really have here is a tit for tat situation. Each side will look back at the last attack on them to justify their next attack. It is impossible to identify one side as the initial aggressor because tit for tat violence is cyclic.

Anyone who has kids will recognise this. "He kicked me", "yeah because she pinched me", " that's because he pulled the head off my doll", "yeah because she tripped me up" etc etc ad nauseum.

The truth is, both sides are wrong. As a parent you separate them and tell them both off.
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the only problem with your analogy is that one kid is 6'4" 250 lbs, while the other is 5'0 89 lbs.
 
AnyOldIron said:
Your interpretation of what has occurred over the last few years is entirely one sided, your use of language clearly indicates that you have a partisan opinion on the situation and it is pretty much impossible to discuss anything with a confirmed partisan because they never see issue with the side they have adopted.
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You speak as if an impartial position is moral- whereas it is halfway towards supporting a doctrine of ethnic cleansing and an illegal occupation.

Simply presenting details of the excessive violence that I have mentioned several times coming from the IDF, doesn't negate the fact that, particularly in 2014, Hamas (or partners) fired barrages of ineffective rockets at Israeli targets knowing exactly what the Israeli response would be. The evidence of this is undeniable.
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You claim that Palestinians fire ineffective rockettes at Israelis in the full knowledge that the Israelis will slaughter thousands of Palestinians ? I think you had better review your ' undeniable evidence ' and post it here .

Switching tactics to knife attacks produces exactly the same effect, designed to prompt an overreaction by the Israelis to play court to global public opinion.
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Again, you have omitted the neoZionist provocation. Are you entirely unaware of what the neoZionists did at al-Quds holy sites in order to provoke a Palestinian response ? Are you entirely unaware that Israeli soldiers have been planting knives on Palestinian Israeli citizens as an excuse to murder them in the streets in cold blood ? Look at the video evidence;

https://electronicintifada.net/blog...israeli-soldier-forces-knife-palestinian-girl

Does the Israeli Army Plant Knives on Palestinians?


To the Israeli ear the allegation sounds far-fetched. Israelis find it hard to believe that our soldiers and commanders could lie, until it’s proven otherwise by security footage or photos.
read more: http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.686280
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And this Desh, is another reason why there will never be peace in this land. Neither side, nor their partisans, will ever admit to doing any wrong. Both sides see themselves as innocents. I'm sure the Germans will have a name for this form of myopic delusion.
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Peace will come when Israel is forced to comply with international law. Law is all we have to prevent global catastrophe- so we'd all better get behind it. Israeli criminality is a fine place to start.
 
I have one child who is five and another who is a teenager. They squabble all the time. Her size doesn't excuse the five year old for continuing the tit for tat, or for the mischief she does to her brother in her turn.

They both get told to stop squabbling.
 
AnyOldIron said:
An example of how language used indicates partisan allegiance, that you are buying into one side's propaganda.



What you really have here is a tit for tat situation. Each side will look back at the last attack on them to justify their next attack. It is impossible to identify one side as the initial aggressor because tit for tat violence is cyclic.
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That's simply an attempt to justify Zionist aggression by creating a moral ' side ' for it. In truth the first act of aggression was the invasion of Palestine by European Zionists. No invasion = no resistance to invasion. Mull on that for a while.
 
AnyOldIron said:
I have one child who is five and another who is a teenager. They squabble all the time. Her size doesn't excuse the five year old for continuing the tit for tat, or for the mischief she does to her brother in her turn.

They both get told to stop squabbling.
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I expect my teenagers to have the maturity to understand that the other is just five and deal with them accordingly.
 
Another example of Israeli incitement. Who can wonder why this fascist state is hated worldwide and supported only by a Zionist-controlled US government ?

Gaza faces harsh winter after Israel cuts gas supply

Palestinians say Israel has drastically reduced natural gas into Gaza, worsening bitter cold weather conditions.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/...r-israel-cuts-gas-supply-160113151958861.html
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The fascist government of Israel has been working hard to provoke West Bank Palestinians so that it can ' legitimise ' and increase its squatter programme. Now it wants to incite Gazans in order to attack Gaza again.

Gaza's agricultural sector - which depends heavily on gas to run greenhouses, especially since Israel sprayed herbicides to destroy vast swathes of crops near the border as part of a "no-grow zone" - has been further hurt by the gas crisis.
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This is not the work of decent Jews. This is the work of neoZionist filth backed by deluded Americans.
 
You speak as if an impartial position is moral- whereas it is halfway towards supporting a doctrine of ethnic cleansing and an illegal occupation.
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This made me chortle. I would describe partisans of both sides as having a dodgy moral compass. As I have said, to be partisan means seeing fault only in your opponent and to turn a blind side to the fault of your own side.

How can you ever come to a peaceful settlement without being impartial, without admitting the faults on both sides and working to fix them? To be a partisan is to fan the violence. Which is difficult to see as moral.

Also, by logical extension of your argument, the violence of the crusades is justified by the illegal occupation and ethnic cleansing of the Christians when Arab Islam conquered the area in the C7th? You realise that, right?

You claim that Palestinians fire ineffective rockettes at Israelis in the full knowledge that the Israelis will slaughter thousands of Palestinians ? I think you had better review your ' undeniable evidence ' and post it here
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You want me to link that Hamas were firing ineffectual rockets into Israel? Or are you struggling to comprehend that Hamas knew what the reaction would be? What do you imagine Hamas thought the reaction would be? Do you think they thought that Israel would immediately retreat to the 1948 borders in the face of this terrifying barrage of ineffectual rockets? Really?

Knives.... again, two partisan sources. google 'echo chamber'. And again, tit for tat. You are taking a side when this violence is clearly cyclic.

Peace will come when Israel is forced to comply with international law.
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Lets examine the time before Israeli illegal occupation started. How much peace occurred then exactly?
 
moon2012 said:
That's simply an attempt to justify Zionist aggression by creating a moral ' side ' for it.
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Wow, comprehension not really your strong point is it? I am not condoning Israeli actions or violence. I am not condoning Palestinian violence (that's where you're at). I am condemning the stupid tit for tat violence on both sides that perpetuates this cyclic bullshit merry-go-round.

In truth the first act of aggression was the invasion of Palestine by European Zionists. No invasion = no resistance to invasion. Mull on that for a while.
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Oh, you're under the impression that the Palestinians are some kind of aboriginal people and didn't illegally conquer and occupy the area in the C7th, culminating in the seige and fall of Jerusalem in 637AD. Does your no invasion = no resistance rule not apply here? I mean, the Jews did illegally invade and occupy the land (from the Aegean Sea People) before the Palestinians. They were there first, and the land only fell to the Muslim Arabs through illegal invasion and occupation. See how this tit for tat bullshit cyclic merry-go-round stretches into millennia now?
 
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AnyOldIron said:
This made me chortle. I would describe partisans of both sides as having a dodgy moral compass. As I have said, to be partisan means seeing fault only in your opponent and to turn a blind side to the fault of your own side.
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You think that's a convenient moral niche you've created for yourself but it's a rejection of morality. You fail to recognise Zionism as the root of the problem, a doctrine of ethnic cleansing - condemned by its own speeches and writings- which seeks to rob an indigenous people of their homeland by means of a programme of brutal aggression, murder and theft. You've swallowed the Zionist propaganda and been recruited by an organisation which specialises in scorn for law- and you don't realise what's happened to you.

How can you ever come to a peaceful settlement without being impartial, without admitting the faults on both sides and working to fix them? To be a partisan is to fan the violence. Which is difficult to see as moral.
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Not at all. To support the Palestinian cause is to support international law. The impartiality fudge that you are attempting to sell makes no mention that Israel gets flayed alive every time its actions are judged by those legally qualified. Instead, you ' chortle '

Also, by logical extension of your argument, the violence of the crusades is justified by the illegal occupation and ethnic cleansing of the Christians when Arab Islam conquered the area in the C7th? You realise that, right?
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I haven't seen any sign of sound logic on your part to date- so you can hardly expect any of your ' logical extensions ' to receive a response.


You want me to link that Hamas were firing ineffectual rockets into Israel? Or are you struggling to comprehend that Hamas knew what the reaction would be? What do you imagine Hamas thought the reaction would be? Do you think they thought that Israel would immediately retreat to the 1948 borders in the face of this terrifying barrage of ineffectual rockets? Really?
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You claimed to have ' evidence ' that Hamas launched ' barrages of rockets ' in order to provoke the Israelis to kill Palestinians. I can see from your words, above, that you are already attempting a smoke screen and I anticipate more fudge of impartiality to take the place of any evidence claimed.

Knives.... again, two partisan sources. google 'echo chamber'. And again, tit for tat. You are taking a side when this violence is clearly cyclic.
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You're shocked by the video evidence, I can see. You also seem unaware that, whilst one source of Israeli knife-planting is from the Electronic Intifada- a non-violent pro-Palestinian Internet organisation based in Chicago- the question of this aspect of almost unbelievable Israeli criminalty is being asked by an Israeli newspaper. It's enough to make Humpty-Dumpty fall off his wall, is it not ?


Lets examine the time before Israeli illegal occupation started. How much peace occurred then exactly?
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The Jews and Arabs of Palestine existed together for millennia before Zionism laid claim to it all.
 
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