the federalist papers, the documents which kill all the right wing memes

any part of the federalist papers or the anti federalist papers.

come on guys


your fear means you have based your ideas on lies
 
DamnYankee said:
Because GovCo taxes too much, is too big and uses the IRS to micro-manage social policy.

So why does the Left tink there is a "general welfare clause" that allows GovCo to do whatever it wants, enumeration of powers be damned?
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Says the "old guy" that hasn't done research lately.

GovCo buys the Right now because it's less obvious to people that watch Fox News.

Weird how that works but it's still both parties.
 
Threedee said:
Either tax code would substantially reduce the amount of paperwork that the IRS would have to process, which would cut back considerably on personnel. Sales tax forms would be handled and submitted by each merchant and business. Flat Taxes would require a single page form. They would also produce more revenue, as people would be taxed with a single rate for their entire income, rather than for graduated rates on each segment of their income.
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It requires six grade math to calculate your income with a simple 5 grade progressive income tax system. That is not a real source of complexity in the law. If you kept everything about the law but eschewed it's progressivity, you maybe would've omitted a paragraph, You're an imbecile who can't do basic math if you think otherwise. The flat tax is not simpler, it's just a scheme by the rich to steal more from the poor, from people who hate freedom, discipline, personal responsibility, and progress.

Simple common sense should tell you that if the rich are paying less under your flat tax scheme, and the poor can't really pay any more cus they're fucking poor, who's making up the goddamn difference? Think for two seconds.
 
DamnYankee said:
This is 100% true. And he lost that debate, yet the Left does it anyway.
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No he didn't, dumbass. Hamilton was the greatest founding father, without him this country would be nothing today, it would be a bunch of divided, feuding fiefdoms like you fascist righties who are so desparate to slap chains around your hands want it to be. Rightists hate freedom, they hate America, they want it destroyed, it's as simple as that.
 
DamnYankee said:
Sure.

"It has been urged and echoed, that the power ``to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts, and excises, to pay the debts, and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States,'' amounts to an unlimited commission to exercise every power which may be alleged to be necessary for the common defense or general welfare. No stronger proof could be given of the distress under which these writers labor for objections, than their stooping to such a misconstruction." Federalist 41
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"No axiom is more clearly established in law or in reason than wherever the end is required, the means are authorized; wherever a general power to do a thing is given, every particular power for doing it is included." - James Madison
 
Classic Liberal said:
Every linguistic intercourse is a “discussion” even a debate if you have the balls to face your opponent and articulate rationally. Notice that where you’re concerned I use the word “rationally” loosely.



But democracy isn’t “individualism” it’s collectivism and absolute democracy is just another unworkable ideology and often nothing less than mob rule. You use the word “individual,” but an individual thinker in a collective democracy would be a maverick a non-participator unless he/she agreed with every whim and want of the majority mob, in that case he/she would not be an individual thinker but rather a brain-dead, brainwashed moron. Communism supposes that all are equal thinkers of equal intelligence, equal ambitions, equal likes and dislikes, equal beauty and equal talent. Pure communism supposes that all things being equal government is unnecessary. Communism is totally out of sync with the reality of human nature.



Oh! But they have every “external support” it’s known as “human nature.” Jealousy, competition and even self-degradation are all human nature, along with hatred, partisan-ism, fear, ambition and laziness. Who the fuck in their right mind will stand for a communist philosophy where all work is of equal importance and the lazy bastard that shirks his share of the collective work load is still entitled to a equal share of the imagined benefits? How many folks are willing to take the communist sharing philosophy to it’s perfect conclusion and share even their wives and husbands like the 60’s hippies tried on for size and found that “jealousy” ruled the day? How many women are willing to change the shitty diapers of the collective’s herd of confused children when the mothers thereof are napping in a quite hideout? Where is the authority but with a government. Who is the government? Who keeps the government moral and uncorrupted? Communism is folly of the most insane kind.



BINGO!!!! They weren’t capable of shedding their “human nature” and becoming programmed drones and slaves to an absurd pie-in-the-sky folly because they were “humans.”



So, now days y’all commies are believing that a socialist democracy in Europe and America will eventually install communism in the western world. Well, let’s see how y’all are doing. Since you have managed the abandonment of the Constitution in America, we’ve become a nation of the bribery, by the bribed and for the bribed. Government isn’t shrinking, government is growing by leaps and bounds. National debt is ungodly, rights and freedoms are being challenged and prohibited. Communism is now called “progressivism.” We’re on the edge of bankruptcy, not because of any truer experience of capitalism, but rather because progressivism from both left and right has created a good ole boy crony capitalist bribery scam between Wall Street and the Federal Government.

Communism is an insane joke, a failed philosophy and an absurdity. It’s contrary to reality and human nature.

Only limited government constitutionalism is rationality, conducive of human and individual rights, prosperity and the pursuit of happiness.
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Capitalism is a joke that has failed. Every capitalist government in history has imploded on itself, in its own greed. It is an inevitable law of history, that individualism fails.
 
Classic Liberal said:
The proof that communism doesn’t work is the pure fact that every nation that ever claimed it did not abolish government but rather established the ever fierce force of government, because communism is impossible without the force of government.
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Capitalism is impossible without the force of government, because greed and selfishness and slavery is totally contrary to human nature. Capitalism is the most inhuman, unnatural, externally imposed system the world has ever seen. Capitalism is, by definition, the force of government, property is impossible with the forces of government subjecting people to it.
 
Panda Hugger said:
Capitalism is impossible without the force of government, because greed and selfishness and slavery is totally contrary to human nature. Capitalism is the most inhuman, unnatural, externally imposed system the world has ever seen. Capitalism is, by definition, the force of government, property is impossible with the forces of government subjecting people to it.
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The American people hate politics and don't know the first thing about Capitalism. It's even become that the worst paid jobs are brainwashed by media into thinking that the reason they don't get paid much is because of a few Government Fraud cases and not because the top doesn't want to "trickle down" like expected and has happened OVER AND OVER AND OVER throughout history.

Lots of the people don't have jobs and are getting "cut" because the top can make more profit even when Corporate profits are at an all time high and Workers Wages are at an all time low. Even unemployment is record low.

Yet the Right voted down the "Anti-Outsourcing Bill" of 2010 that stopped tax deductions for outsourcing.
 
Panda Hugger said:
Capitalism is impossible without the force of government, because greed and selfishness and slavery is totally contrary to human nature. Capitalism is the most inhuman, unnatural, externally imposed system the world has ever seen. Capitalism is, by definition, the force of government, property is impossible with the forces of government subjecting people to it.
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You are absolutely correct about this one because the first people mad were the low paid Right wingers, and EVERYONE can remember them screaming, "They took our jobs"

Since, the same people are patting the back of the corporations that "took our jobs"

Basic political ignorance. If the other party does it, it's wrong. If my party does it, it's justified and I will google any reason I need to justify it.

(I want to correct my statement and note that it was both parties that caused this. But the Left took a stand against it. Since there has been mass "redneck" and Fox News support of "in order for us to make more, we need to let corporations make more money". And the fish bite.)
 
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Panda Hugger said:
It requires six grade math to calculate your income with a simple 5 grade progressive income tax system. That is not a real source of complexity in the law. If you kept everything about the law but eschewed it's progressivity, you maybe would've omitted a paragraph, You're an imbecile who can't do basic math if you think otherwise. The flat tax is not simpler, it's just a scheme by the rich to steal more from the poor, from people who hate freedom, discipline, personal responsibility, and progress.

Simple common sense should tell you that if the rich are paying less under your flat tax scheme, and the poor can't really pay any more cus they're fucking poor, who's making up the goddamn difference? Think for two seconds.
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This is something that has never seemed to make any sense to me and maybe you can take a moment to walk me through the intricate details. I very common refrain from those on the left is that the rich are stealing from the poor. There are a few problems with that statement.

1) As you mention later in your post, if they are poor how is there anything for the rich to steal?
2) What is the mechanism by which the poor's money is transferred to the rich?
3) How is it the poor are paying a higher burden in taxes if the rich get a tax cut? Every piece of data shows that as it relates to federal income taxes, the rich pay a higher share than the poor. In fact as the tax code gets more progressive, it goes even higher. 50% of taxpayers pay NO federal income tax whatsoever. Now before you launch into the "Yeah, but they pay payroll taxes" routine, allow me to remind you that we are only talking about federal income taxes and nobody is talking about giving payroll tax cuts to anyone. Additionally, the maximum by which FICA taxes are withheld have been going up ever year. In 2000 it was $72,000 and today it is $113,000.

I might remind you that when Bush signed those dastardly tax cuts into law, he removed many people from the tax rolls completely, so while yes the rich did receive a tax cut so did the poor. And yes, the rich received a larger tax cut because well, they pay the bulk of the taxes. It is kind of impossible for someone who does not pay taxes to get a tax cut don't you think?

The last point I would like to make is that unless you are filling out a 1040EZ, there is nothing easy about complying with our tax code. It is a myriad of ups and downs built to favor special interest groups of all sorts and modify human behavior. Buy this and you get a tax credit. Do this and you get a tax credit. It is a complete sham.

Thanks.
 
Panda Hugger said:
Capitalism is a joke that has failed. Every capitalist government in history has imploded on itself, in its own greed. It is an inevitable law of history, that individualism fails.
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There have been no true capitalist governments. We have been the closest, but unfortunately the system of government that was designed was completely dependent on a moral people. Unfortunately, mostly immoral people gravitate toward government.

It isn't capitalism or free markets that fail. They have created more prosperity for more people than any other system ever designed. That is indisputable. The problem is that human nature always wants to intervene. There are two forces at play. The first is the desire for certain individuals to acquire and hold on to power. The second is for individual to gain an advantage over their fellow man. As it pertains to the second there are two ways to do this. One is to create a service and constantly compete for their voluntary exchange of services or money. The second is to turn to the government to create competitive barriers so as to maintain an advantage. Unfortunately, it is much less work to do the latter. This is where individuals with the desire to attain power become attracted to those who want to create competitive barriers. Thus, crony capitalism is created. Government picks winners and losers. This cronyism however is not unique to capitalism. It can be found in any form of government known to be exist in all of history.

I have always found it shocking that people like you would be opposed to the free exchange of goods and services without the coercion of a third party. How that comports with freedom is beyond me.
 
Kel-Tec PMR-30 said:
Because the original Constitution (something the Federalists wanted) said no tax may be laid on income.
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Actually, it did not specifically say that taxes should not be laid on income. It said that no direct tax could be laid unless it is proportional. Many interpreted that to mean a tax on income up until the 16th Amendment.
 
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