Damo nobody said they're not human beings except for you. You are doing the right wing faux outrage here, and building up a strawman to knock it down.
And thanks, but I don't need you to "support' my life choices. I'm not that insecure.
The Spouses
- Thread starter Cypress
- Start date
Damo nobody said they're not human beings except for you. You are doing the right wing faux outrage here, and building up a strawman to knock it down.
And thanks, but I don't need you to "support' my life choices. I'm not that insecure.
Most aren't. There are exceptions. I know a real ignorant hick, high school dropout at 16, later got a ged, and though education isn't everything, she is the living stereotype. She's married to a low-earner, and they're poor, but she's a stay at home mom.
But typically, this is a high-falutin debate taking place between educated women on both ends of this. Typically, educated women marry educated men, and in order to have the choice to be a stay at home mom, you normally would have to be married to a high earner, ie; a highly educated man.
Also typically, uneducated women marry uneducated men, both are low earners and both must work.
That is why this new debate, which is really the old debate brought about by Betty Friedan's "The Feminine Mystique" is so alienating to so many women, just as it was during second wave feminism.
You can't have this debate without bringing class into it, and I'd argue, without race as well, and during second wave feminism it took the black feminist intellectuals to bring both those things into it.
Otherwise what you are doing is having an arguement between the top percentile, representative of no one other than themselves, and thus excluding the majority of women in this country.
Then you throw men into the mix, with them molding their idea of the perfect woman, whatever that might be, the driven accomplished, brilliant career woman, or the mother earth type, (and a lot of that is about their mothers) and you really have nothing except a bunch of bullshit.
I know several husbands, all conservatives, whose wives stay at home and they do not belive that there wives work, because they dont get a paycheck. The men control the money, because they earn it, and they do not help the wives out on weekends or in the evenings, because they work. I can think of quite a few men like this, all conservatives. I dont have a lot of respect for the wives or the men, they both allow this type of situation.
Annie
Not So Junior Member
It was not obvious:
implication: Democrats marry educated working women, Republicans marry less educated, working women. it wasn't about 'candidates', since the topic was on the candidates, seems you were moving the discussion a bit?
You really need to work on your reading comprenhension.
Well, women can get themselves into bad situations, and once they have had children in this situation, it can be difficult to get out of.
but what I don't understand is why they raise their daughters to follow in their footsteps. I know a woman who is a high school graduate only, and who married and never worked. She had two kids. One week after the second one was born, her husband left her for a woman he had been screwing throughout her pregnancy, though nobody knew this.
They eventually got back together, but she has no power in the marriage whatsoever, none. He goes out all of the time, and while he might not be having affairs any longer, he lives his life as a single man. She rages at home about it, and this is all communicated to her daughter. Here is how to be a woman, be powerless. And her daughter is being raised surrounded by this and by her traditional extended family, where the girls all stop working the second they get married and have 5 kids just like dear old mom. Never mind that this woman is not the only one in the family who has been left holding the bag. Her older sister has been left by two husbands now.
And this is what she teaches her daughter. Why not teach your daughter to dream of her graduation day, not her wedding day? Don't tell her she shouldn't have kids, but tell her she can do more than that too. She can be anything.
And it disturbs me because the girl is my niece. And her crazy aunt does the best that she can do to instill in her that she needs to go to a university, that women can do anything, that she is so bright and beautiful (and she is both) that there is an entire world out there just waiting for her to make her choices, and those choices are not limited to sitting home on a Friday night screaming on the phone because once again, your husband is not coming home.
I wish you and other rightwingers on the thread would stop personalizing this. Projecting onto other posters.
I was quite explicit, that my point was that values voters tend to prefer that a first lady conform to a traditional gender role. I said nothing about people basing their VOTES simply on that (although that lie has been propogated and cheerled by a college kid, and his cheerleader on the thread).
I have no idea which party marries "more educated" women, nor do I care. I have a ton of male relatives who worked in the coal mines, and married stay at home Moms. And most of them are union coal miners, and democrats.
This had nothing to do with family choices, or women's choices. I wish we lived in an economy, where every family could choose, if they wanted, for one of the spouse to stay home with the kids.
But, I think it's a undeniable fact that values voters, would like a first lady that conforms to the traditional caregiver and mommy role. And the contrast in the candidates wives, to me, suggests that the republican spouses are a more obvious example of that first lady stereotype.
My sisters, both stay at home mothers, one of whome is in the situation discussed above, are all three HIGHLY educated. One has a Ph.D, the other a Masters in Accounting and is a CPA, and the other has a masters in Physical Therapy and is a liscensed PT. My mother insisted they get an education so that if they are trapped in such a situation they could get out.
My sister chooses her situation as she could go out and get a job at any time.
Annie
Not So Junior Member
Gee, thought I was responding and quoting, Jarod. Who is taking everything personal?
With the actual candidates, that appears to be the case. But that is a very small group, and I don't think representative of women in general.
The point of the thread, as i understood it anyway, was that the republicans who call themselves "traditional values voters" prefer a traditional first lady, that is, a stay at home mom.
How that is controversial, I don't know. Read WRL's post on this thread. I mean, t hey'll come out and tell you so.
It's just republicans like damo who are embarrassed of their own base, who fight against this categorization and try and pretend anyone who makes this claim is crazy. It's really funny as hell.
evince
Truthmatters
This is really funny stuff guys.
Women and MEN should be allowed to make the choice for themselfs.
I stayed home. They were the happiest and hardest days of my life. This day and age when you are a stay at home ( well at least in a middle class nieghborhood) you end up being the nieghborhood Mom.
Yes I got treated like an idiot by the nieghbor hood Dads and was often avoided by the Moms who I think felt guilty and jelous.
I very often on here get told Im stupid and worthless because I stayed home by the more conservative posters.
I took kids to the pool ,the movies, the park, the water park and even drove vanloads to the beach. Often had to supliment the adventure with my own cash. I often talked to kids about things their parents didnt have time to talk to them about. I have walked of my house and found kids (who had no supervision during certain hours) doing things where I had to herd 5 or 6 teens or preteens up and lecture them about Lighing fires , throwing rocks, smoking or whatever. I would like to pat myself on the back here because I always did it in a way that they still liked and respected me in the end. They all still say hi and stop and talk to me and pet my dog. Its wierd to walk away are realize hey thats right those are not my kids.
I learned so much about people both large and small doing this. I was treated like shit by all the parents who I rendered these free services for.They wanted to pretend I was not a part of raising their kids so I never told them about anything that went on. I never told them I found Johnny trying to light your pine tree on fire or I found Timmy heaving rocks at the nieghbors house. Instead the kids had an extra Mom arround who would come and help them when Mom and Dad were not home. If someohne got hurt ,if the toilet overflowed and they did not know how to stop it , if the dogs got out, if there was someone in the nieghborhood who was scaring them or whatever.
I was there with a lecture , a hand, a little knowledge, a bandaid, a car or an adult voice telling someone they did not belong in the nieghborhood and needed to leave.
This was worthless to most of my neighbors only becuase they want to say someday they raised their kids all on their own while working.I did not do it for them I did it for my son and I have to admitt I kept doing his whole life because I realized He would have been one of them and then there would be no Me in the nieghborhood. I am proud of my ohter kids too thought they have turned out pretty good too.
Men or women can choose to stay home and its an honorable thing to do. You do learn alot by doing so. You make very little money doing it though and I think for some money trumps all. For me the kids ended up trumping all.
Women and MEN should be allowed to make the choice for themselfs.
I stayed home. They were the happiest and hardest days of my life. This day and age when you are a stay at home ( well at least in a middle class nieghborhood) you end up being the nieghborhood Mom.
Yes I got treated like an idiot by the nieghbor hood Dads and was often avoided by the Moms who I think felt guilty and jelous.
I very often on here get told Im stupid and worthless because I stayed home by the more conservative posters.
I took kids to the pool ,the movies, the park, the water park and even drove vanloads to the beach. Often had to supliment the adventure with my own cash. I often talked to kids about things their parents didnt have time to talk to them about. I have walked of my house and found kids (who had no supervision during certain hours) doing things where I had to herd 5 or 6 teens or preteens up and lecture them about Lighing fires , throwing rocks, smoking or whatever. I would like to pat myself on the back here because I always did it in a way that they still liked and respected me in the end. They all still say hi and stop and talk to me and pet my dog. Its wierd to walk away are realize hey thats right those are not my kids.
I learned so much about people both large and small doing this. I was treated like shit by all the parents who I rendered these free services for.They wanted to pretend I was not a part of raising their kids so I never told them about anything that went on. I never told them I found Johnny trying to light your pine tree on fire or I found Timmy heaving rocks at the nieghbors house. Instead the kids had an extra Mom arround who would come and help them when Mom and Dad were not home. If someohne got hurt ,if the toilet overflowed and they did not know how to stop it , if the dogs got out, if there was someone in the nieghborhood who was scaring them or whatever.
I was there with a lecture , a hand, a little knowledge, a bandaid, a car or an adult voice telling someone they did not belong in the nieghborhood and needed to leave.
This was worthless to most of my neighbors only becuase they want to say someday they raised their kids all on their own while working.I did not do it for them I did it for my son and I have to admitt I kept doing his whole life because I realized He would have been one of them and then there would be no Me in the nieghborhood. I am proud of my ohter kids too thought they have turned out pretty good too.
Men or women can choose to stay home and its an honorable thing to do. You do learn alot by doing so. You make very little money doing it though and I think for some money trumps all. For me the kids ended up trumping all.
uscitizen
Villified User
I agree Darla.
The right wing diversions from the origional intent of this thread have been very normal for them.
This. However, I don't remember anybody but the lefty topspin calling you worthless for staying home.
Desh, let's address your last paragraph.
You say you think that for some money trumps all, but for you the kids trumped all.
You are making a judgement right there. And you don't even realize it.
You just gave away that deep down, you see working moms as caring less about their kids than you do about yours, and more about money than you do.
That is absolutely false.
Super freak called you worthless for being a stay at home mom?
I will skewer his butt for him the next time I see him!
THANK YOU.
I'm glad some people can read, and comprehend the english language.
Frankly, there's about two or three posters on the fringe right, who are are always sniffing around my posts, and trying to find a way to divert it into an issue of how "disingenous" I am, or how I "lied". Its an obsession with them.