The U.S. national debt exceeded $33 trillion for the first time ever

Doc Dutch said:
They knew what was coming. That's the immorality of the entire Trump administration; putting money over American lives and welfare.

Note that the unnecessary deaths aren't all from COVID; many were simply because of an overwhelmed medical system where there were no hospital beds for patients with other serious medical problems. Still, botching the US COVID response resulted in, from one estimate, over 150,000 unnecessary deaths.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/covid-19s-other-unnecessary-death-toll/
COVID-19’s Other Unnecessary Death Toll
Our bungled national response exposed the fragility of our already broken health care system by keeping people with other fatal diseases from getting treatment
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Yes. I remember. Millions of people had to wait to get what were considered 'non essential' procedures because there simply weren't enough beds in the hospitals.
 
Althea said:
Yes. I remember. Millions of people had to wait to get what were considered 'non essential' procedures because there simply weren't enough beds in the hospitals.
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That was part of why Trump's lies cost American lives and, as a result, hurt the economy.

Another part was simply the lies about COVID and the vaccine which ended up costing Americans their lives from the disease itself.

https://nationalinterest.org/feature/how-many-america’s-coronavirus-deaths-were-unnecessary-180015
More specifically, how many of the half-million Americans who died from coronavirus in the past year would not have died had the US federal government, state governments, and health care providers acted as effectively as their counterparts in other nations did?

Taiwan’s population is a quarter larger than that of the entire state of New York. Since the outbreak of the pandemic, how many Taiwanese have been killed? The number can be counted on the fingers of two hands. It is ten. To repeat: ten out of 23 million. With a population roughly the size of the state of Massachusetts, Singapore has seen 29 deaths compared to more than 16,000 for Massachusetts. South Korea’s population of 52 million includes 28,000 American troops stationed there. Deaths among that population, including the Americans, total less than 1/50th of the per capita fatalities in the United States.

The impact of this failure on other nations’ views of the US has been substantial. The most recent Pew poll found that only 15% worldwide give the US a passing grade in handling this outbreak.

Within the USA, the differences in death tolls among the best and worst-performing states are almost as striking. Had New York’s governor, health department, and health care providers acted as effectively as their counterparts in Hawaii or Vermont did, 42,000 of its former residents would be alive today. Had the dozen worst-performing states seen the same number of deaths per capita as the dozen who have done the best job, more than 100,000 of their fellow citizens would now be looking forward to spring.
 
Doc Dutch said:
That was part of why Trump's lies cost American lives and, as a result, hurt the economy.

Another part was simply the lies about COVID and the vaccine which ended up costing Americans their lives from the disease itself.

https://nationalinterest.org/feature/how-many-america’s-coronavirus-deaths-were-unnecessary-180015
More specifically, how many of the half-million Americans who died from coronavirus in the past year would not have died had the US federal government, state governments, and health care providers acted as effectively as their counterparts in other nations did?

Taiwan’s population is a quarter larger than that of the entire state of New York. Since the outbreak of the pandemic, how many Taiwanese have been killed? The number can be counted on the fingers of two hands. It is ten. To repeat: ten out of 23 million. With a population roughly the size of the state of Massachusetts, Singapore has seen 29 deaths compared to more than 16,000 for Massachusetts. South Korea’s population of 52 million includes 28,000 American troops stationed there. Deaths among that population, including the Americans, total less than 1/50th of the per capita fatalities in the United States.

The impact of this failure on other nations’ views of the US has been substantial. The most recent Pew poll found that only 15% worldwide give the US a passing grade in handling this outbreak.

Within the USA, the differences in death tolls among the best and worst-performing states are almost as striking. Had New York’s governor, health department, and health care providers acted as effectively as their counterparts in Hawaii or Vermont did, 42,000 of its former residents would be alive today. Had the dozen worst-performing states seen the same number of deaths per capita as the dozen who have done the best job, more than 100,000 of their fellow citizens would now be looking forward to spring.
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Unfortunately for this nation, once trump could no longer hide the information he received on Jan 2 '20, he turned every aspect of Covid preventive measures into a political issue.

So we had morons in MAGA states making mask mandates illegal. They opened up the states to tourism and ended up killing tens of thousands of people in the process.

They love to point to the numbers of deaths in NY/California as proof of efficacy, but they ignore that the trump virus landed in NY and California when he was still keeping it a secret. Once the truth came out, both states took drastic measures to stop the destruction.

There is absolutely no excuse for the increased numbers of deaths after the point when we pinpointed the issue, had vaccines, and a better explanation of how to avoid unnecessary spread.
 
Althea said:
Unfortunately for this nation, once trump could no longer hide the information he received on Jan 2 '20, he turned every aspect of Covid preventive measures into a political issue.

So we had morons in MAGA states making mask mandates illegal. They opened up the states to tourism and ended up killing tens of thousands of people in the process.

They love to point to the numbers of deaths in NY/California as proof of efficacy, but they ignore that the trump virus landed in NY and California when he was still keeping it a secret. Once the truth came out, both states took drastic measures to stop the destruction.

There is absolutely no excuse for the increased numbers of deaths after the point when we pinpointed the issue, had vaccines, and a better explanation of how to avoid unnecessary spread.
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History will not be kind to Donald J. Trump and those who supported him.

The biggest irony is that the Republicans have become Dr. Frankenstein in this scenario and have created a monster they can no longer control. Remember when Trump was booed for mentioning vaccinations? Classic!

Not a single Trumper on JPP is very bright. They may have been in the past, but nowadays, they are demented or just never very educated or smart to begin with.
 
ptif219 said:
Why is it Democrats do not want to lower the debt. It must be done soon or we will become a very poor country
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Trump added more to the debt in 4 years than any President ever.

The deficit expanded to a record level three times when he was President. Before that, the last largest deficit belonged to Bush the Dumber. And prior to that, the largest deficit belonged to Ronald Reagan.

Conservatives ruin everything they touch because Conservatism is bankrupt in every single regard.

There has never been a successful Conservative policy in this country that has done the country any good.

There has not been a successful Republican Presidency since Eisenhower, and there has never been a successful Conservative President.

Every single Conservative President has left office either in disgrace or with a stinking economy in their wake.
 
Damocles said:
The republicans are not trying to lower debt either... The choice we have is between driving full speed or just really fast but not quite full speed towards the cliff, nobody at all votes for the version where we stop driving towards the cliff.
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Joe Biden reduced the deficit from where Trump left it...the deficit Trump left was caused primarily by his tax cuts.

Conservative Perverts loved to say their tax cut would lead to growth of 3% when the truth is that they couldn't even top Obama's best annual GDP growth.

Conservatism is bankrupt in every regard. There has never been a successful Conservative policy that has benefitted the nation, and there never will be. There has never been a successful Conservative President despite MANY MANY attempts, and every single Conservative President since Nixon has either left office in disgrace, or left behind a collapsed and damaged economy. EVERY. FUCKING. TIME.

Conservatism is the problem. It's why the deficit is so large. It's why the debt continues to grow. It's why we can't get good economic growth. Conservatism has no merits and we're seeing those faults play out over and over again.

In order for democracy and our economy to survive, Conservatism must be annihilated like the Nazis were.
 
Damocles said:
The time for creating enough growth to cover the deficit spending is past, we either buckle down and do it the hard way or we never will. The way folks vote lately we never will. Republicans are arguing about how much to slow down while driving towards the cliff, but they are not arguing between themselves on how quickly to turn around. Nobody in Congress at this moment is arguing in any way to actually stop the deficit spending.
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The best way to produce economic growth is to raise wages and have direct government spending.

We tried your trickle down supply side bullshit for 40+ years and it didn't work.

Time to stop pretending like you know what you're talking about.
 
LV426 said:
Joe Biden reduced the deficit from where Trump left it...the deficit Trump left was caused primarily by his tax cuts.

Conservative Perverts loved to say their tax cut would lead to growth of 3% when the truth is that they couldn't even top Obama's best annual GDP growth.

Conservatism is bankrupt in every regard. There has never been a successful Conservative policy that has benefitted the nation, and there never will be. There has never been a successful Conservative President despite MANY MANY attempts, and every single Conservative President since Nixon has either left office in disgrace, or left behind a collapsed and damaged economy. EVERY. FUCKING. TIME.

Conservatism is the problem. It's why the deficit is so large. It's why the debt continues to grow. It's why we can't get good economic growth. Conservatism has no merits and we're seeing those faults play out over and over again.

In order for democracy and our economy to survive, Conservatism must be annihilated like the Nazis were.
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I still laugh every time I think of how many times they used the term 'rocket fuel for the economy' when they were pushing the tax giveaway to the rich.
 
LV426 said:
The best way to produce economic growth is to raise wages and have direct government spending.

We tried your trickle down supply side bullshit for 40+ years and it didn't work.

Time to stop pretending like you know what you're talking about.
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Slash taxes for the middle class, and cut taxes for corporations that move all production back to the U.S.

Hike taxes for corporations that don't.

It's just that easy.
 
Althea said:
Slash taxes for the middle class, and cut taxes for corporations that move all production back to the U.S.

Hike taxes for corporations that don't.

It's just that easy.
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You don't need to cut anyone's taxes because cutting taxes only cuts tax revenue, which then starves social programs and causes them to fail.

All tax cuts do is steal from the future to pay instant gratification, and that goes for every income group, every level.

The ONLY SUREFIRE WAY we get an economy that grows is by raising people's wages.

We cut taxes in lieu of raising wages in the 2000's and look what that gave us. We did it again in 2018 and look what that gave us.

When are people going to realize that the problem isn't taxation, it's wages?

And besides, the more you make, the more you pay in taxes...so raising everyone's wages will result in raised tax revenue to pay for cool things.
 
LV426 said:
You don't need to cut anyone's taxes because cutting taxes only cuts tax revenue, which then starves social programs and causes them to fail.

All tax cuts do is steal from the future to pay instant gratification, and that goes for every income group, every level.

The ONLY SUREFIRE WAY we get an economy that grows is by raising people's wages.

We cut taxes in lieu of raising wages in the 2000's and look what that gave us. We did it again in 2018 and look what that gave us.

When are people going to realize that the problem isn't taxation, it's wages?

And besides, the more you make, the more you pay in taxes...so raising everyone's wages will result in raised tax revenue to pay for cool things.
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Jobs are created when there is demand for products. Which is why trickle down is a joke. More money in the hands of billionaires and corporations just brings your aforementioned stock buybacks and CEO pay hikes.

Put more money into the hands of the middle class, and you create demand. Thus creating jobs AND income tax revenue.

If you don't want to create more of the criminal profiteering by corporations due to lies about increased wages, simply cut taxes on the biggest source of consumption and watch demand increase.

This must be coupled with tax hikes for companies that offshore labor.
 
Althea said:
Jobs are created when there is demand for products. Which is why trickle down is a joke. More money in the hands of billionaires and corporations just brings your aforementioned stock buybacks and CEO pay hikes.

Put more money into the hands of the middle class, and you create demand. Thus creating jobs AND income tax revenue.

If you don't want to create more of the criminal profiteering by corporations due to lies about increased wages, simply cut taxes on the biggest source of consumption and watch demand increase.

This must be coupled with tax hikes for companies that offshore labor.
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Again, cutting taxes has never influenced consumer behavior the way everyone hopes it does.

Like, we've had countless examples at the federal and state level the last 23 years and every single result is the same...no marked or noticeable effect on spending habits and an increase in household debt. Which means that people are taking out lines of credit in order to pay for things...this is what happened from 2003-2008.

The tax cuts Obama passed in the ARRA were neutral, which is why they didn't really have as much an impact on things as the direct government spending did.
 
Damocles said:
The republicans are not trying to lower debt either... The choice we have is between driving full speed or just really fast but not quite full speed towards the cliff, nobody at all votes for the version where we stop driving towards the cliff.
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The GOP is fighting now over cutting spending
 
LV426 said:
Trump added more to the debt in 4 years than any President ever.

The deficit expanded to a record level three times when he was President. Before that, the last largest deficit belonged to Bush the Dumber. And prior to that, the largest deficit belonged to Ronald Reagan.

Conservatives ruin everything they touch because Conservatism is bankrupt in every single regard.

There has never been a successful Conservative policy in this country that has done the country any good.

There has not been a successful Republican Presidency since Eisenhower, and there has never been a successful Conservative President.

Every single Conservative President has left office either in disgrace or with a stinking economy in their wake.
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Because of the pandemic
 
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