Theology Question

[Dutch Uncle]

Wrong.

You are not agnostic about invisible elephants in the road when you are driving. You are not testing for them, you simply fail to believe they exist.

Actually, I am.

Why do you think I would deny the possibility that there are elephants on a different plane of existence marching in front of me? Not an astrophysicist who knows multiverse theory, but I accept the possibility it's true. For me to definitively deny the possibility would be completely asinine. A flamboyant display of ignorance.

Is that what you are doing, Jank? Flamboyantly displaying your ignorance? Dude, there's paper and then there's reality. Recognizing both is a good thing.

 

[Cypress]

Agnosticism is just moral indecision.

Sounds like a pithy aphorism you read in an article or book.

Explain what morality has to do with the agnostic viewpoint.

 

[Cancel 1 2023]

Sad. Now you know why I keep telling everyone who thinks I'm Perry PhD that I don't have a PhD. LOL

And we're back to the "sock hunt". It's good you have a hobby.

Considering that more people seem to think you are a sock of Perry Phimosis I think I'd be quiet if I were you.

 

[Cancel 1 2023]

Actually, I am.

Must make it hard to drive down the road for you. (You do realize I know you aren't actually agnostic about them....you feel the answer is available and so you hit the accelerator. That's all I need to know).

You are free to misrepresent what you think agnosticism is all about or how it manifests but it manifests as purely "atheistic" about the elephants

I'm an atheist. The kind who says "I see no reason to believe in God but if you present me with sufficient data I can change my mind. But I do not currently believe in things for which there is no evidence or any real need for them to exist.

I see people who claim to be agnostic when in reality they are just afraid to commit. They don't utilize the same level of incredulity in their every day life.

Like the invisible elephants on the road before you: you DON'T REALLY believe they are there or you wouldn't move the car. But you drive. Because you don't actually believe they are there. Sure you could be wrong, but that doesn't mean you are "agnostic" about the idea.

 

[Cypress]

This is absurd.

A truly omnipotent god could create the reality that people could be perfectly happy,
and an all-loving god who was indeed omnipotent and wanted to create people
would do exactly that...else it would not be all-loving.

It's far more likely that the concept of god was a construct of "early-phase of evolution" humans,
and that a residual effect of that remains in some present-day-humans for reasons we need to examine.

Anyone posting on this board who is unhappy or depressed probably has a mental health condition that needs medication.

I've never had a problem being reasonably happy over the long run.

Philosophies like Daoism, Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism are supposed to provide both spiritual and practical advice on how to maintain a balanced life, purity of spirit, and coping mechanism for hardships.

Solzhenitsyn, who spent years in the Gulag, said suffering and deprivation was his greatest teacher.

Naturally, we don't want anymore Hitlers. But since humans are gifted with reason and free will, both Germans and Europeans at large had many opportunities to stop Hitler before he even acquired power, but that free will was repeatedly not excercised.

 

[NiftyNiblick]

Anyone posting on this board who is unhappy or depressed probably has a mental health condition that needs medication.

I've never had a problem being reasonably happy over the long run.

Philosophies like Daoism, Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism are supposed to provide both spiritual and practical advice on how to maintain a balanced life, purity of spirit, and coping mechanism for hardships.

Solzhenitsyn, who spent years in the Gulag, said suffering and deprivation was his greatest teacher.

Naturally, we don't want anymore Hitlers. But since humans are gifted with reason and free will, both Germans and Europeans at large had many opportunities to stop Hitler before he even acquired power, but that free will was repeatedly not excercised.

Free will may or may not exist.
There's no known method to prove its existence at this point in time.
If every other effect has a cause, we'd have to prove that behavior is different.

And if free will ever is proved, then psychology itself would appear to be fraudulent.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Must make it hard to drive down the road for you. (You do realize I know you aren't actually agnostic about them....you feel the answer is available and so you hit the accelerator. That's all I need to know)....

Sorry, I don't do text walls.

I have no problems driving down the road since all alternative universes are on a different plane of existence. They have no effect on our plane nor ours on theirs.

I also do not deny the possibility that one day mankind might be able to transit between such planes. Are you going to label me a Jesus Freak because I accept the possibility, Jank?

You are free to misrepresent what you think agnosticism is all about or how it manifests but it manifests as purely "atheistic" about the elephants

I'm an atheist. The kind who says "I see no reason to believe in God but if you present me with sufficient data I can change my mind. But I do not currently believe in things for which there is no evidence or any real need for them to exist.

I see people who claim to be agnostic when in reality they are just afraid to commit. They don't utilize the same level of incredulity in their every day life.

Like the invisible elephants on the road before you: you DON'T REALLY believe they are there or you wouldn't move the car. But you drive. Because you don't actually believe they are there. Sure you could be wrong, but that doesn't mean you are "agnostic" about the idea.

Cute on your fantasies, Jank. Please keep posting them.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

And we're back to the "sock hunt". It's good you have a hobby.

Considering that more people seem to think you are a sock of Perry Phimosis I think I'd be quiet if I were you.

Hobbies are fun. What are yours, Jank?

I'm Perry and I really don't have a PhD. Never trust Perry. Perry is a putz.

 

[NiftyNiblick]

Sorry, I don't do text walls.

I have no problems driving down the road since all alternative universes are on a different plane of existence. They have no effect on our plane nor ours on theirs.

I also do not deny the possibility that one day mankind might be able to transit between such planes. Are you going to label me a Jesus Freak because I accept the possibility, Jank?

This, to me, is starting at step two.
What's our motivation for even considering the possibility, Oom--too much free time?

Do you know what I'm thinking about right now?
You guessed it! Donuts.

 

[Cancel 1 2023]

Sorry, I don't do text walls.

Understood. Reading is not everyone's forte.

 

[Cancel 1 2023]

Anyone posting on this board who is unhappy or depressed probably has a mental health condition that needs medication.

So it's best if you and your buddy Doc Dutch antagonize and attack people.

I've never had a problem being reasonably happy over the long run.

Perhaps you are a carrier of unhappiness. You know, like making others around you feel shitty. Like when you suggest people are antisemitic because they disagree with you.

 

[Cancel 1 2023]

I'm Perry and I really don't have a PhD. Never trust Perry. Perry is a putz.

That's exactly what I would expect you to say if you want people to NOT think you are a sock of Perry.

Both of you are relatively unpleasant people who angrily post and thrash.

It seems to be what you two get off on.

Thankfully you have your other "buddy" Cypress who can be counted on to support your posts and make it seem like you "two" are really on the same wavelength. I understand people often do that with socks as well; support their own ego artificially.

Either way it seems to be your hobby to be immensely unpleasant.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Free will may or may not exist.
There's no known method to prove its existence at this point in time.
If every other effect has a cause, we'd have to prove that behavior is different.

And if free will ever is proved, then psychology itself would appear to be fraudulent.

Regardless, the law holds you accountable like you do have Free Will. If I were in charge, I'd make more room for mental illness as a factor but neither party does more than give lip-service to the idea.

https://cops.usdoj.gov/html/dispatch/05-2022/mental_health_reentry.html

According to the National Alliance on Mental Illness, 21 percent of U.S. adults, or 52.9 million people, experienced mental illness in 2020. For incarcerated people, those rates are much higher; the American Psychological Association reports that “64 percent of jail inmates, 54 percent of state prisoners, and 45 percent of federal prisoners” have reported mental health concerns. Approximately half the people in U.S. jails and over one third of the population of U.S. prisons have been diagnosed with a mental illness. During reentry, mental illness complicates an already difficult path for prisoners returning home.

Although there are limits, I side with those who believe a healthy adult has free will in their overall decision-making. Consider like a trout in a fast moving stream; they have limited freedom to choose where they move in the stream bed including those bound by its genetics and the physics of water flow, but there is always the element of choice AKA Free Will. Greater choice for humans, IMO, than for fish.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

This, to me, is starting at step two.
What's our motivation for even considering the possibility, Oom--too much free time?

Do you know what I'm thinking about right now?
You guessed it! Donuts.

Unknown, but I believe part of it is by choice. More free time does allow for higher thoughts. Education. After all, how much English composition does a subsistence farmer use daily?

Donuts. Ummmmm...... Krispy Kreme ruined me for all other donuts...which now I avoid except for Krisypy Kreme. Unfortunately, I haven't seen one in years.

 

[Ross Dolan]

I see people who claim to be agnostic when in reality they are just afraid to commit. They don't utilize the same level of incredulity in their every day life.

Being agnostic on the question of whether or not there are any gods...does not mean one is agnostic about everything...and it is stupid to suppose otherwise.

I do not have enough unambiguous evidence upon which to make a meaningful guess on the matter.

But I truly do not enjoy having people suppose I am afraid to commit...so if you think I would be displaying less fear by making a guess, I am totally willing to do so.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

That's exactly what I would expect you to say if you want people to NOT think you are a sock of Perry.

Both of you are relatively unpleasant people who angrily post and thrash.

It seems to be what you two get off on.

Thankfully you have your other "buddy" Cypress who can be counted on to support your posts and make it seem like you "two" are really on the same wavelength. I understand people often do that with socks as well; support their own ego artificially.

Either way it seems to be your hobby to be immensely unpleasant.

Clearly you haven't read much Sun Tzu. Is that because you dropped out of Chem to become night manager at a Mickey D's?

Agreed Perry is trash.

Not sure what you mean there, Jank. Please elaborate. TIA

You act all self-righteous, then prove you are not by attacking Cypress. I do tend to piss people off, but Cypress has always done his best to work with people, not against them. Perry Trash did the same thing by attacking Cypress simply because Cypress expressed disagreement to one of Perry's idiotic comments.

Disagreed on your assessment of my "hobby", but I can understand why liars and stupid people become pissed off at me.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Being agnostic on the question of whether or not there are any gods...does not mean one is agnostic about everything...and it is stupid to suppose otherwise.

I do not have enough unambiguous evidence upon which to make a meaningful guess on the matter.

But I truly do not enjoy having people suppose I am afraid to commit...so if you think I would be displaying less fear by making a guess, I am totally willing to do so.

Agreed. Follow the facts. If there are no facts either way, then it's silly to just guess or, in Jank's case, believe in the complete nonexistence of anything beyond the Natural Universe.

 

[Cypress]

Free will may or may not exist.
There's no known method to prove its existence at this point in time.
If every other effect has a cause, we'd have to prove that behavior is different.

And if free will ever is proved, then psychology itself would appear to be fraudulent.

I think it's true that free will is open for debate as an abstract philosophical debate. But at the level of everyday experience, I have no doubt that we feel we have free will to some significant extent.

On another tangent, I do not agree with the premise of the thread that happiness is the goal of life, the be all end all of it.

Happiness is a state of temporary euphoria, it doesn't seem biologically possible to be in a state of euphoria all the time, and it's not clear to me it would even be healthy.

If there is a goal of life it seems to me to be to improve as a person, cultivate righteousness, and cultivate meaningful human relationships.

 

[Cancel 1 2023]

Clearly you haven't read much Sun Tzu. Is that because you dropped out of Chem to become night manager at a Mickey D's?

Agreed Perry is trash.

Not sure what you mean there, Jank. Please elaborate. TIA

You act all self-righteous, then prove you are not by attacking Cypress. I do tend to piss people off, but Cypress has always done his best to work with people, not against them. Perry Trash did the same thing by attacking Cypress simply because Cypress expressed disagreement to one of Perry's idiotic comments.

Disagreed on your assessment of my "hobby", but I can understand why liars and stupid people become pissed off at me.

This is your hobby.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

This is your hobby.

One of them. Is that a problem for you, Jank? Why? Why not?