Theology Question

ZenMode said:
I don't know. I'm just stating the obvious - God made earth essentially perfect

and then setup Adam and Eve to ruin it

knowing that they would ruin it.

Now, Christians are basically waiting for Jesus/God to return, hurl non-believers into the eternal lake of fire and return earth to how he originally made it.
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Says who besides you?

Why would any all powerful being set up someone to fail?

Which goes back to my question you couldn't answer.

There are those who believe that and have believed it for 2000 years. Go figure. There are many religions in world. Do you only hate the Christian one or do you hate them all equally?
 
BidenPresident said:
I am like a chess grandmaster. You are a beginner. Every you say I learned in Sunday School.

You think being a sceptic is profound, it is not. You are incapable of critical thought.
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You become more like a Trumper every day, Ms. BP! Interesting.

Who is more of an angry wacko, you or Frank?
 
Doc Dutch said:
Wouldn't living in eternity be perfect bliss? If God did make everyone happy, why make the Natural Universe? What would be the purpose?
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What would hardcore atheists do without Genesis and the books of Moses?? 99 times out of 100, their complaints zero in on the five books of the Jewish Torah, and you virtually never hear them complain about the New Testament or the life and teachings of Jesus.

On the flip side, if you took gays and abortion off the table, you would remove almost everything rightwing holly rollers have to complain about.
 
Cypress said:
What would hardcore atheists do without Genesis and the books of Moses?? 99 times out of 100, their complaints zero in on the five books of the Jewish Torah, and you virtually never hear them complain about the New Testament or the life and teachings of Jesus.

On the flip side, if you took gays and abortion off the table, you would remove almost everything rightwing holly rollers have to complain about.
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Agreed. It's odd they never complain directly complain about the Jews. Just the Christians.

Agreed about cherry-pickers. They never complain about shrimp eaters or adulterers. In fact, most of them are admitted adulterers.
 
Cypress said:
What would hardcore atheists do ...
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Cypress being an idiot again.

There is no such thing as a "hardcore" atheist. There are no shades of a lack of something. An absence of something does not form a spectrum. All lacks of theism are identical.
 
BidenPresident said:
If God is all powerful, why can God not make everyone happy? If God created the entire universe, why not create a utopia?

If God cannot make everyone happy, God is not all powerful.
If God can make everyone happy and does not, God is cruel and petty.

Solution, God is not all powerful and cannot make everyone happy.

Even God has limits to power.
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We on Earth are God(s) version of a long running TV drama/sitcom/action/romance show? Makes about as much sense as anything else. ;)
 
IBDaMann said:
Cypress being an idiot again.

There is no such thing as a "hardcore" atheist. There are no shades of a lack of something. An absence of something does not form a spectrum. All lacks of theism are identical.
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You don't speak for all atheists, Sybil.
 
Frank Apisa said:
Nonsense!

I suggest that ANY and EVERY person who identifies as an atheist (weak or strong atheist) does so because of a "belief".
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Too funny. You melt like the wicked witch of the west if someone points out one of your beliefs (i.e. you scream that you never "believe") and then you insist that others who hold no belief on a matter nonetheless hold a belief on the matter.

Frank, there truly is no contradiction too absurd for you to use to strangle each and every aspect of your arguments.

You know it's bad when BidenPresident rakes you over the coals.
 
IBDaMann said:
There is no such thing as a "hardcore" atheist. There are no shades of a lack of something. An absence of something does not form a spectrum.
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You obviously just blurted this out without even thinking it through.

There are shades of atheism just like there are shades of Judaism or Protestantism.

Some atheists have a mellow live-and-let-live attitude towards people of other belief systems.

Some atheists are intent on murdering christians, Muslims, Buddhists, as witnessed by history.

And everything in-between
 
Three positions.
1. God exists.
2. God does not exist.
3. Truth value of existence or nonexistence cannot be determined.

The first is the believer, second is atheist, third is agnostic.
The agnostic is a skeptic claiming the truth values of the first and second claims cannot be determined.
But the skeptic is making a claim that it has knowledge that the first two cannot be proven.
 
BidenPresident said:
Three positions.
1. God exists.
2. God does not exist.
3. Truth value of existence or nonexistence cannot be determined.

The first is the believer, second is atheist, third is agnostic.
The agnostic is a skeptic claiming the truth values of the first and second claims cannot be determined.
But the skeptic is making a claim that it has knowledge that the first two cannot be proven.
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Bottom line: agnostics question everything, so religious dogma of any stripe gets the analysis .... but we don't deny that there is something going on that explains life, the universe and everything (thanks to the late Douglas Adams for that one).
 
Cypress said:
You obviously just blurted this out without even thinking it through.
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You are projecting. You did not think through the stupid comment you made. You understand zero on this topic. You are wasting bandwidth with a vengeance.

Cypress said:
There are shades of atheism just like there are shades of Judaism or Protestantism.
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I'll tell you what, I will.give you a lesson on the topic. Walk through it with me.

Twelve people have cars. There are many types of cars. Each of the twelve people have a distinctly different car. Another twelve people have no cars at all. Each of these twelve people's lack of any car is exactly the same.

Twelve people have theisms. There are many types of theisms. Each of the twelve people have distinctly different theisms. Another twelve people are atheists; they have no theism at all. Each of these twelve people's lack of any theism is exactly the same.

Let me know if you have any questions.
 
Taichiliberal said:
Bottom line: agnostics question everything,
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Stupid comment. You are conflating agnostics with scientists (and engineers).


Taichiliberal said:
...so religious dogma of any stripe gets the analysis
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Scientists, engineers and agnostics can all be religious.

You don't know what "agnostic" means, do you?

Taichiliberal said:
.... but we don't deny that there is something going on that explains life, the universe and everything (thanks to the late Douglas Adams for that one).
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I deny it (I don't have any such belief) but I don't reject the possibility.
 
BidenPresident said:
Three positions.
1. God exists.
2. God does not exist.
3. Truth value of existence or nonexistence cannot be determined.
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This is incorrect. Just as "to believe" does not overlap with "to know", theism and (A)Gnosticism do not overlap.

Three theism positions:
1.actively believes in the supernatural.
2. actively rejects the supernatural
3. (atheist): has not been convinced of either the existence or the absence of the supernatural and does not reject either possibility, i.e. does not hold any beliefs about the supernatural.

Three gnostic positions
1. The truth of a set of supernatural beliefs has been revealed
2. The set of supernatural beliefs has been falsified
3.(agnostic) The truth of a set of beliefs cannot be known.

Any theist can be gnostic or agnostic.
 
IBDaMann said:
This is incorrect. Just as "to believe" does not overlap with "to know", theism and (A)Gnosticism do not overlap.

Three theism positions:
1.actively believes in the supernatural.
2. actively rejects the supernatural
3. (atheist): has not been convinced of either the existence or the absence of the supernatural and does not reject either possibility, i.e. does not hold any beliefs about the supernatural.

Three gnostic positions
1. The truth of a set of supernatural beliefs has been revealed
2. The set of supernatural beliefs has been falsified
3.(agnostic) The truth of a set of beliefs cannot be known.

Any theist can be gnostic or agnostic.
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A theist is not agnostic. By definition.
 
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