Trump’s Boxes and Clinton’s Sock Drawer

Yes the tapes had classified briefing information on them. Clearly they had information that was classified on them and Clinton was trying to hide them in his sock drawer. The court ruled they were his and ONLY the President has the right to decide what record belongs to him and what does not.

When did you get the tapes to know that there is classified information on them?
The court ruled that documents and tapes created by the President can be personal records. It did not rule that documents created by the Department of Defense are personal records.
 
By Michael Bekesha
Although the indictment against Donald Trump doesn’t cite the Presidential Records Act, the charges are predicated on the law. The indictment came about only because the government thought Mr. Trump took records that didn’t belong to him, and the government raided his house to find any such records.

This should never have happened. The Presidential Records Act allows the president to decide what records to return and what records to keep at the end of his presidency. And the National Archives and Records Administration can’t do anything about it. I know because I’m the lawyer who lost the “Clinton sock drawer” case.

In 2009, historian Taylor Branch published “The Clinton Tapes: Wrestling History With the President.” The book is based on recordings of Mr. Branch’s 79 meetings with Bill Clinton between Jan. 20, 1993, and Jan. 20, 2001. According to Mr. Branch, the audiotapes preserved not only Mr. Clinton’s thoughts on issues he faced while president, but also some actual events, such as phone conversations. Among them:

• Mr. Clinton calling several U.S. senators and trying to persuade them to vote against an amendment by Sen. John McCain requiring the immediate withdrawal of troops from Somalia

• Mr. Clinton’s side of a phone call with Rep. William Natcher (D., Ky.) in which the president explained that his reasoning for joining the North American Free Trade Agreement was based on technical forecasts in his presidential briefings.

• Mr. Clinton’s side of a phone conversation with Secretary of State Warren Christopher about a diplomatic impasse over Bosnia.

• Mr. Clinton seeking advice from Mr. Branch on pending foreign-policy decisions such as military involvement in Haiti and possibly easing the embargo of Cuba.

The White House made the audiotapes. Nancy Hernreich, then director of Oval Office operations, set up the meetings between Messrs. Clinton and Branch and was involved in the logistics of the recordings. Did that make them presidential records?......

The National Archives and Records Administration was never given the recordings. As Mr. Branch tells it, Mr. Clinton hid them in his sock drawer to keep them away from the public and took them with him when he left office.

In defending NARA, the Justice Department argued that NARA doesn’t have “a duty to engage in a never-ending search for potential presidential records” that weren’t provided to NARA by the president at the end of his term. Nor, the department asserted, does the Presidential Records Act require NARA to appropriate potential presidential records forcibly. The government’s position was that Congress had decided that the president and the president alone decides what is a presidential record and what isn’t. He may take with him whatever records he chooses at the end of his term.


Judge Amy Berman Jackson agreed: “Since the President is completely entrusted with the management and even the disposal of Presidential records during his time in office,” she held, “it would be difficult for this Court to conclude that Congress intended that he would have less authority to do what he pleases with what he considers to be his personal records.”

Judge Jackson added that “the PRA contains no provision obligating or even permitting the Archivist to assume control over records that the President ‘categorized’ and ‘filed separately’ as personal records. At the conclusion of the President’s term, the Archivist only ‘assumes responsibility for the Presidential records.’ . . . PRA does not confer any mandatory or even discretionary authority on the Archivist to classify records. Under the statute, this responsibility is left solely to the President.”


I lost because Judge Jackson concluded the government’s hands were tied. Mr. Clinton took the tapes, and no one could do anything about it.

The same is true with Mr. Trump. Although he didn’t keep records in his sock drawer, he gathered newspapers, press clippings, letters, notes, cards, photographs, documents and other materials in cardboard boxes. Then Mr. Trump, like Mr. Clinton, took those boxes with him when he left office. As of noon on Jan. 20, 2021, whatever remained at the White House was presidential records. Whatever was taken by Mr. Trump wasn’t. That was the position of the Justice Department in 2010 and the ruling by Judge Jackson in 2012......

https://www.wsj.com/articles/clinto...ictment-documents-pra-personal-files-13986b28
===========================
NARA does not have the authority to decide what is or what is not Presidential records. Trump is going to win this case. Joe Biden is trying to knock out his number one political opponent.




The guy is a loser


Face that none of your idiot flailings like this will save your want to be dictator trump


He’s TOAST just like trumps personal pick to head the top cop spot said
 
marxist-satanist_doj_tratiors_lie_throug-2850296-jpg.1303775

Altering a picture won’t save your trump dictator dreams either
 
He said the "President" dummy.
Is Trump the "President" dummy?


It's funny how you want to have one rule for Clinton and a different rule for Trump.
Documents created by the person can be governmental or personal. Documents created by a department of the US government can't be personal.
A document created by the Department of Defense can't be a personal document for Trump or Clinton. An email from an employee at the Department of Defense could be personal or governmental depending on the content. Asking about daughter's wedding would be personal. Asking if the document that lays out the attack on Iran makes sense would be governmental.
 
Is Trump the "President" dummy?


It's funny how you want to have one rule for Clinton and a different rule for Trump.
Documents created by the person can be governmental or personal. Documents created by a department of the US government can't be personal.
A document created by the Department of Defense can't be a personal document for Trump or Clinton. An email from an employee at the Department of Defense could be personal or governmental depending on the content. Asking about daughter's wedding would be personal. Asking if the document that lays out the attack on Iran makes sense would be governmental.

Trump was the president, Dummy.
 
I believe in EQUAL application of the law. And I believe in the Presidential records act. Hillary and Joe Biden did not have the Presidential Records act to justify their having Classified documents. In fact Joe Biden had documents that were smuggled out of a SCIF while he was a Senator. I'm amazed that you don't see when one Presidential candidate tries to knock out his number one political opponent it is very wrong and dangerous for the republic.


The attempted insurrection that you guys made excuses for was a danger to the republic.

This is just the rule of law doing rule of law stuff. No one in this country is above the law.
 
The attempted insurrection that you guys made excuses for was a danger to the republic.

This is just the rule of law doing rule of law stuff. No one in this country is above the law.

It was the democrats who had an armed insurrection based on the Floyd race hoax. They took over and burned gov't buildings. And even seceded from the Union, again.

"
This police-free protest zone was dismantled - but was it ...

BBC
https://www.bbc.com › world-us-canada-53218448
Jul 12, 2020 — The area was declared the Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone - or Chaz, for short. It was to be a police-free, self-governing utopia."
 
so now retard Trumpers say he can take any classified docs?

why not just give your messiah the crown already. JFC
 
"Under Bekesha's misreading of Presidential Records Act, current president has no means (other than begging) of getting former president to return wrongly retained national-security docs, no matter how sensitive. Very odd to torture PRA and 2012 ruling to reach such a result."

This is what the retarded Trumpers would leave us with. Talk about your Banana Republic where each newly elected leader has to beg or pay off the last guy to get records returned
 

Ed Whelan is a constitutional scholar - having worked under Scalia. He finds this claim to be idiotic - although is nicer than I am in explaining it

From the link within ^^^...

Frivolous Trump Argument No. 1: Classified Intelligence Reports Compiled by Government Agencies Are ‘Personal Records’ under the Presidential Records Act

...

...The PRA carves out an exception for personal records of the president (under Section 2201[3]). Chunks of this exception (subsections B and C) are not really relevant to our present concerns; they relate to partisan political and electoral activities that “have no relation to or direct effect upon the carrying out of constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the president.” Putting them aside, let’s quote in full, the part of the PRA’s personal records definition that, according to Trump defenders, bears on the documents in the indictment:

The term “personal records” means all documentary materials, or any reasonably segregable portion thereof, of a purely private or nonpublic character which do not relate to or have an effect upon the carrying out of the constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President. Such term includes—(A) diaries, journals, or other personal notes serving as the functional equivalent of a diary or journal which are not prepared or utilized for, or circulated or communicated in the course of, transacting Government business.

As you can see, it’s surprising that people who want to be taken seriously would contend that top-secret, close-held intelligence reports compiled by U.S. spy agencies were analogous to a president’s personal journal or diary. Of course, Trump defenders are not really making that contention — they’re cynically assuming you won’t read the very simple laws they’re babbling about.

Still, it’s not enough to observe how undeniable it is that the intelligence-agency documents pertaining to national defense described in the indictment could not conceivably be deemed a president’s personal records, as defined by the PRA. More fundamentally: They’re not presidential records at all.
 
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By Michael Bekesha
Although the indictment against Donald Trump doesn’t cite the Presidential Records Act, the charges are predicated on the law. The indictment came about only because the government thought Mr. Trump took records that didn’t belong to him, and the government raided his house to find any such records.

This should never have happened. The Presidential Records Act allows the president to decide what records to return and what records to keep at the end of his presidency. And the National Archives and Records Administration can’t do anything about it. I know because I’m the lawyer who lost the “Clinton sock drawer” case.

In 2009, historian Taylor Branch published “The Clinton Tapes: Wrestling History With the President.” The book is based on recordings of Mr. Branch’s 79 meetings with Bill Clinton between Jan. 20, 1993, and Jan. 20, 2001. According to Mr. Branch, the audiotapes preserved not only Mr. Clinton’s thoughts on issues he faced while president, but also some actual events, such as phone conversations. Among them:

• Mr. Clinton calling several U.S. senators and trying to persuade them to vote against an amendment by Sen. John McCain requiring the immediate withdrawal of troops from Somalia

• Mr. Clinton’s side of a phone call with Rep. William Natcher (D., Ky.) in which the president explained that his reasoning for joining the North American Free Trade Agreement was based on technical forecasts in his presidential briefings.

• Mr. Clinton’s side of a phone conversation with Secretary of State Warren Christopher about a diplomatic impasse over Bosnia.

• Mr. Clinton seeking advice from Mr. Branch on pending foreign-policy decisions such as military involvement in Haiti and possibly easing the embargo of Cuba.

The White House made the audiotapes. Nancy Hernreich, then director of Oval Office operations, set up the meetings between Messrs. Clinton and Branch and was involved in the logistics of the recordings. Did that make them presidential records?......

The National Archives and Records Administration was never given the recordings. As Mr. Branch tells it, Mr. Clinton hid them in his sock drawer to keep them away from the public and took them with him when he left office.

In defending NARA, the Justice Department argued that NARA doesn’t have “a duty to engage in a never-ending search for potential presidential records” that weren’t provided to NARA by the president at the end of his term. Nor, the department asserted, does the Presidential Records Act require NARA to appropriate potential presidential records forcibly. The government’s position was that Congress had decided that the president and the president alone decides what is a presidential record and what isn’t. He may take with him whatever records he chooses at the end of his term.


Judge Amy Berman Jackson agreed: “Since the President is completely entrusted with the management and even the disposal of Presidential records during his time in office,” she held, “it would be difficult for this Court to conclude that Congress intended that he would have less authority to do what he pleases with what he considers to be his personal records.”

Judge Jackson added that “the PRA contains no provision obligating or even permitting the Archivist to assume control over records that the President ‘categorized’ and ‘filed separately’ as personal records. At the conclusion of the President’s term, the Archivist only ‘assumes responsibility for the Presidential records.’ . . . PRA does not confer any mandatory or even discretionary authority on the Archivist to classify records. Under the statute, this responsibility is left solely to the President.”


I lost because Judge Jackson concluded the government’s hands were tied. Mr. Clinton took the tapes, and no one could do anything about it.

The same is true with Mr. Trump. Although he didn’t keep records in his sock drawer, he gathered newspapers, press clippings, letters, notes, cards, photographs, documents and other materials in cardboard boxes. Then Mr. Trump, like Mr. Clinton, took those boxes with him when he left office. As of noon on Jan. 20, 2021, whatever remained at the White House was presidential records. Whatever was taken by Mr. Trump wasn’t. That was the position of the Justice Department in 2010 and the ruling by Judge Jackson in 2012......

https://www.wsj.com/articles/clinto...ictment-documents-pra-personal-files-13986b28
===========================
NARA does not have the authority to decide what is or what is not Presidential records. Trump is going to win this case. Joe Biden is trying to knock out his number one political opponent.

Obviously this is MAGA militia’s defense of Trump, because Clinton did this, Hunter this, and the President something else, Trump isn’t guilty and is above the law
 
From the link within ^^^... No. 1: Classified Intelligence Reports


"Presidential Power to Declassify Information, Explained
https://www.nytimes.com › U.S. › Politics
Sep 22, 2022 — In an interview, Mr. Trump again insisted that “I declassified everything.” He added that as president, “you can declassify just by saying ..."

Comprende?

Next.
 
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"Presidential Power to Declassify Information, Explained
https://www.nytimes.com › U.S. › Politics
Sep 22, 2022 — In an interview, Mr. Trump again insisted that “I declassified everything.” He added that as president, “you can declassify just by saying ..."

Comprende?

Next.

it is you who does not 'comprende'.

The POTUS has the POWER to declassify. That is not the issue.

But as he and his White House argued in the only 3 cases that went to court because Trump and Meadows took them to court, that declassifying power does NOT happen unless they complete a process.


As i said in the other thread...


That is factually inaccurate as proven by Trump and his White House lawyers and Mark Meadows in the only 3 precedent cases that exist in this general area of law.

In all 3 instances Trump had stated in Tv interview (words) and on Twitter (official writings) that certain doc's had been declassified by him.

In all 3 instances the Media said, 'ok good. Since you declassified them, we want to see them. Here is a FOIA request. Hand them over'.

In all 3 instances the Trump White House, supported by Trump, argued in court, Trump words on TV or Trump official Writings (twitter) are NOT sufficient to declassify anything. That a second REQUIRED step is needed where Trump instructs the agencies responsible to take the steps to actually declassify them and since Trump HAD NOT done that in any of these 3 cases, they remained classified.

In all 3 cases the Judges agree with the Trump Team arguments and denied the media the documents which remained classified.


- James Madison Project v. U.S. Dep't of Justice
- LEOPOLD et al v. U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE et al, No. 1:2019cv01278 - Document 86 (D.D.C. 2020)
- The New York Times, et al., v. Central Intelligence Agency


Comprende?
 
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