What defines a Christian?

PostmodernProphet said:
yes there is.....it is speaking about an individual and while it is true that "The Jewish people are consistently referred to with the singular pronoun" that pronoun is "you" not "he"......



really?.....any of this sound familiar?......


can you give me an example of such things being said about the nation of Israel?....
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believers with The Spirit know in our hearts and that from the scriptures Jesus was the suffering servant; faithful unto death, even the death of the cross. fake jews produce fake news. these bastards will teach heresy and some will follow their pernicious ways. they are not jews; they say they are jews and are not, but they are proven liars. they are self deluded and shall remain in their sins because they refuse the Lamb of God. there is no more sacrifice for sin. allow them to do their job. they are the damned. just leave them alone so as not to give them convenient opportunity to speak their blasphemies. our redemption draws very near. I testify truly. what we are witnessing is the fulfillment of prophecy esp. 8-11 http://biblehub.com/kjv/revelation/2.htm esp. 7-13 http://biblehub.com/kjv/revelation/3.htm . hold fast to the faith once delivered to the saints. and faithful believers shall overcome esp. 7-12 http://biblehub.com/kjv/revelation/12.htm . it is good. right on schedule...
 
guno said:
Amazing that the goy who had no knowledge of hebrew know anything about jewish scripture and knows what it says,

the ignorant goy only know what they are taught

The Context of Isaiah 53
The key to deciphering any biblical text is to view it in context. Isaiah 53 is the fourth of the four “Servant Songs.” (The others are found in Isaiah chapters 42, 49 and 50.) Though the “servant” in Isaiah 53 is not openly identified – these verses merely refer to “My servant” (52:13, 53:11) – the “servant” in each of the previous Servant Songs is plainly and repeatedly identified as the Jewish nation. Beginning with chapter 41, the equating of God’s Servant with the nation of Israel is made nine times by the prophet Isaiah, and no one other than Israel is identified as the “servant”:

“You are My servant, O Israel” (41:8)
“You are My servant, Israel” (49:3)
see also Isaiah 44:1, 44:2, 44:21, 45:4, 48:20
The Bible is filled with other references to the Jewish people as God’s “servant”; see Jeremiah 30:10, 46:27-28; Psalms 136:22. There is no reason that the “servant” in Isaiah 53 would suddenly switch and refer to someone other than the Jewish people.


One obvious question that needs to be addressed: How can the “Suffering Servant,” which the verses refer to grammatically in the singular, be equated with the entire Jewish nation?

The Jewish people are consistently referred to with the singular pronoun.
This question evaporates when we discover that throughout the Bible, the Jewish people are consistently referred to as a singular entity, using the singular pronoun. For example, when God speaks to the entire Jewish nation at Mount Sinai, all of the Ten Commandments are written as if speaking to an individual (Exodus 20:1-14). This is because the Jewish people are one unit, bound together with a shared national destiny (see Exodus 4:22, Deuteronomy chapter 32). This singular reference is even more common in biblical verses referring to the Messianic era, when the Jewish people will be fully united under the banner of God (see Hosea 14:6-7, Jeremiah 50:19).

As we will see, for numerous reasons this chapter cannot be referring to Jesus. Even in the Christian scriptures, the disciples did not consider the Suffering Servant as referring to Jesus (see Matthew 16:21-22, Mark 9:31-32, Luke 9:44-45).


http://www.aish.com/sp/ph/Isaiah_53_The_Suffering_Servant.html
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True.. early Christians did NOT think Jesus was the messiah mentioned in Isaiah.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
yes there is.....it is speaking about an individual and while it is true that "The Jewish people are consistently referred to with the singular pronoun" that pronoun is "you" not "he"......



really?.....any of this sound familiar?......


can you give me an example of such things being said about the nation of Israel?....
Click to expand...

Over and over again all thru scripture Israel is spoken of as one entity.. sometimes the whore of Babylon.. other times as the suffering servant. Are you trying to change scripture?
 
kudzu said:
Over and over again all thru scripture Israel is spoken of as one entity.. sometimes the whore of Babylon.. other times as the suffering servant. Are you trying to change scripture?
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In addition
According to Torah, the Messiah will:

Ezekiel 37:26-28: Build the Third Temple
Isaiah 43:5-6: Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel
Isaiah 2:4: Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore."
Zechariah 14:9: Spread universal knowledge of the G-d of Israel - uniting the entire human race as one: "G-d will be King over all the world—on that day, G-d will be One and His Name will be One"
Jesus fulfilled none of these messianic prophecies. Additionally:

Jesus was not a prophet. Prophecy could only exist in Israel when the land is inhabited by a majority of world Jewry. During the time of Ezra (~300 BCE) the majority of Jews refused to move from Babylon to Israel, thus prophecy ended upon the death of the last prophets (Haggai, Zechariah and Malachi). Jesus appeared on the scene approximately 350 years after prophecy had ended.
Jesus was not descended from King David. Per Genesis 49:10 and Isaiah 11:1, the Messiah must be descended on his father's side from King David. However, according to the Christian claim that Jesus was the product of a virgin birth, he had no father -- and thus could not have possibly fulfilled the messianic requirement of being descended on his father's side from King David! The Christian idea of a virgin birth is derived from a verse in Isaiah describing an "alma" as giving birth. The word "alma" has always meant a young woman, but Christian theologians came centuries later and translated it as "virgin." This accords Jesus' birth with the first century pagan idea of mortals being impregnated by G-ds.
Tradition teaches that the Messiah will lead the Jewish people to full Torah observance. Deut. 13:1-4 states that all mitzvahs remain binding forever, and anyone coming to change the Torah is immediately identified as a false prophet. Throughout the New Testament, Jesus contradicts the Torah and states its commandments are no longer applicable. (John 1:45 and 9:16, Acts 3:22 and 7:37)
In Christianity, the role of the messiah was redefined in order to fit the man’s career as written by his followers. As Jesus was said to have been resurrected, the Bible was examined with the purpose of finding evidence that the messiah would be killed without bringing peace to the world or redemption to Israel. There was therefore the expectation of a second coming, at which time Jesus would carry out the task expected of the messiah (because he obviously didn't do it the first time). This also required creation of an explanation for the first coming and its catastrophic end. The net result of all of this was to shift the function of the messiah from a visible level where it could be tested (as in Tanach, what Christians call the "Old Testament") to an invisible level where it could not. As a result of this reworking, the messiah’s goal the first time around was changed from the redemption of Israel to the atonement for "original sin". A reworking of Biblical themes.
 
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iewitness said:
believers with The Spirit know in our hearts and that from the scriptures Jesus was the suffering servant; faithful unto death, even the death of the cross. fake jews produce fake news. these bastards will teach heresy and some will follow their pernicious ways. they are not jews; they say they are jews and are not, but they are proven liars. they are self deluded and shall remain in their sins because they refuse the Lamb of God. there is no more sacrifice for sin. allow them to do their job. they are the damned. just leave them alone so as not to give them convenient opportunity to speak their blasphemies. our redemption draws very near. I testify truly. what we are witnessing is the fulfillment of prophecy esp. 8-11 http://biblehub.com/kjv/revelation/2.htm esp. 7-13 http://biblehub.com/kjv/revelation/3.htm . hold fast to the faith once delivered to the saints. and faithful believers shall overcome esp. 7-12 http://biblehub.com/kjv/revelation/12.htm . it is good. right on schedule...
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the goyim knew nothing about hebrew scripture , it was only in the year 325 C.E. , the council of Nicea that voted jesus as God along with the construct of the christian bible which used mistranslations of the hebrew bible
 
The idea of the Trinity was made up by the Catholic Church, a status Jesus was elected to at the Council of Nicea in 325 CE.

· This was done on the orders of the Emperor Constantine who wished to make Christianity the new state religion of the Roman Empire.

· This ‘son of god’ status being given to Jesus was a follow on from pagan ideas of ‘god men’ such as Mithras and Dionysus.
 
Christians, do your research. There may have been a man that walked the earth in the land known as Nazareth that attempted to guide the people back to righteousness, but, this man was not JESUS CHRIST. You see no mention of any man in Nazareth named JESUS mentioned during the meetings in Rome, or of a woman named Mary (the virgin) giving birth to a child named Jesus.

https://www.oneworldofnations.com/2015/03/the-council-of-nicea-council-that.html
 
iewitness said:
believers with The Spirit know in our hearts and that from the scriptures Jesus was the suffering servant; faithful unto death, even the death of the cross. fake jews produce fake news. these bastards will teach heresy and some will follow their pernicious ways. they are not jews; they say they are jews and are not, but they are proven liars. they are self deluded and shall remain in their sins because they refuse the Lamb of God. there is no more sacrifice for sin. allow them to do their job. they are the damned. just leave them alone so as not to give them convenient opportunity to speak their blasphemies. our redemption draws very near. I testify truly. what we are witnessing is the fulfillment of prophecy esp. 8-11 http://biblehub.com/kjv/revelation/2.htm esp. 7-13 http://biblehub.com/kjv/revelation/3.htm . hold fast to the faith once delivered to the saints. and faithful believers shall overcome esp. 7-12 http://biblehub.com/kjv/revelation/12.htm . it is good. right on schedule...
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In your heart? Why don't you READ what it says instead?
 
PostmodernProphet said:
Israel is NEVER referred to as a SUFFERING servant.......
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This is where the credibility of fundamentalists suffers.. You can't change scripture.

The writers of the gospels were working overtime to make Jesus fit ancient prophesies .. and they failed.

Jesus wasn't the messiah because he rode into Jerusalem on a donkey.. EVERYBODY rode donkeys..

Jesus is enough to stand on his own... There's no reason to borrow from the Jews to convince people.
 
shakespeare wrote (to paraphrase), "even the devil can quote scripture to suit his purposes". Quoting scripture is often used as a scare tactic by wolves in sheeps clothing, whose main agenda is to enrich themselves. The billionaire, Pat robertson, of the CBN is the prime example of this evil act.


some charltons, such as jimmy swaggart, do it for trim. That whiny philander is still in business after being busted by the vice squad.

My point is: the words of the bible can be used to exploit and corrupt people's minds into heinous beliefs about things like race and cultural diversity. The "God is on my side" concept has been used to promote countless bloody wars throughout history by both sides of the conflict.

If you want to promote your religious beliefs, do it by your personal actions such as compassion for the weak and poor, charity, love, temperance, and respect for the beliefs of others.

You'll never get to heaven by grabbing trims.

Amen.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
because as Christians we read both the OT and the NT and consider both to be the word of God.......its sort of a defining characteristic of Christianity......
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I think some Christians misread scripture to suit themselves... just as they have translated the Greek word to fit their ideas.

For instance .. Sargon also was cast adrift in a basket on the river long before Moses. Religions usually borrow from other mythology and change them to suit their needs.
 
kudzu said:
This is where the credibility of fundamentalists suffers.. You can't change scripture.

The writers of the gospels were working overtime to make Jesus fit ancient prophesies .. and they failed.

Jesus wasn't the messiah because he rode into Jerusalem on a donkey.. EVERYBODY rode donkeys..

Jesus is enough to stand on his own... There's no reason to borrow from the Jews to convince people.
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is any of that intended to refute the fact Israel is not referred to as a "suffering" servant?.....
 
kudzu said:
For instance .. Sargon also was cast adrift in a basket on the river long before Moses. Religions usually borrow from other mythology and change them to suit their needs.
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the claim:
sargons-birth-placed-in-basket-set-adrift-in-river-to-16206881.png


the story:
Sargon was the illegitimate child of a high priestess.......she knew if his birth was discovered he and she would be killed.......she put him in a basket and let him float downstream.....a fisherman, a commoner, found him and raised him.......

Moses: a slave had a child and knew if he was discovered he would be killed......she put him in a basket and left him where the princess bathed, her daughter to watch over him from cover.........the princess found him and raised him as royalty......

isn't the story of Moses the exact opposite of the story of Sargon?......
 
PostmodernProphet said:
the claim:
sargons-birth-placed-in-basket-set-adrift-in-river-to-16206881.png


the story:
Sargon was the illegitimate child of a high priestess.......she knew if his birth was discovered he and she would be killed.......she put him in a basket and let him float downstream.....a fisherman, a commoner, found him and raised him.......

Moses: a slave had a child and knew if he was discovered he would be killed......she put him in a basket and left him where the princess bathed, her daughter to watch over him from cover.........the princess found him and raised him as royalty......

isn't the story of Moses the exact opposite of the story of Sargon?......
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The story of Moses borrows from 2 sources.. The story of Sargon and the popular, romantic tale of Sinuhe.
 
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