What kind of "Christian values" do Conservatives want?

rjhenn said:
Modern conservatives are severely paranoid, as they keep demonstrating here.

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It is an emotional judgement, not a scientific one, for you to believe that the RWNJs on this forum are typical "Modern conservatives" who do, indeed, display a distinct level of paranoia, schizophrenia, a shit ton of phobias and all the classiness of Irritated Bowel Syndrome.


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Dutch Uncle said:
If that was true then you'd be able to demonstrate the math cacluating how much life exists elsewhere in the galaxy. You can't because they are all guesses. GIGO. <---I mentioned that before along with Fermi's Paradox. The fact remains you, like me, have faith the math is a reasonable assumption althought the Fermi question should give everyone pause.

Secondly since you've declared as fact that God doesn't exist, not simply "disbelieve", it means you are an atheist who has faith in something he cannot prove. Good luck with that!

BTW, it's fine to "disbelieve" there is no force behind creation of the universe and/or no existence beyond the mortal one. Stating it as fact without evidence is as unreasonable as a Televangelist declaring Jonah spent 3 days inside the belly of a whale.

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There is no more evidence for the existence of God than there is for the existence of extraterrestrial life. Less, actually, since we know that life exists.

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Dutch Uncle said:
It is an emotional judgement, not a scientific one, for you to believe that the RWNJs on this forum are typical "Modern conservatives" who do, indeed, display a distinct level of paranoia, schizophrenia, a shit ton of phobias and all the classiness of Irritated Bowel Syndrome.


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I don't see much difference between the RWNJs here and the ones I see elsewhere.

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For how many years has there been

Radio,
Television,
Cars,
Aeroplanes,
Hot-Air ballons,
Rifles & Guns & cannons,
Gas stoves,
Bicycles...?

So now since the age of Athens & the Pharaohs ...

YOU ARE ENLIGHTENED ABOVE THEM ALL...because you use a bicycle rather than teletransportation.

Let's called then 'Spocks'
 
rjhenn said:
I don't see much difference between the RWNJs here and the ones I see elsewhere.

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I do not doubt that’s all you see.

In his book “1776” David McCullough wrote what made George Washington a great man: "He had the salient quality of being able to see things the way they were instead of the way he wanted them to be."

Most people see things the way they want them to be instead of the way they are. Which doesn’t make them, or you, bad. It just makes you average. Good luck with COVID!

Sent by wolves baying at the Moon
 
StoneByStone said:
Actually, the Right in most European countries is only different from the Left in that they're Ethnic Nationalists. When things like universal healthcare went mainstream in Europe, the Right was forced to admit that it worked well. However, because multiracialism never worked, the Right never had to change their stance on this one issue.
It's kind of the same situation in America, just to a smaller degree. The Right was forced to accept abolition, women voting, Catholic immigration, having a Catholic president, and gay marriage. I'm hoping that Democrats will pass Medicare for All at some point, the Republicans will cry for a few months, then eventually accept it as just a normal part of American life.
This is what I mean by liberalizing the Right. We need to make the Right accept every liberal policy that works well, to the point where the only things they're fighting for are Ethnic Nationalism, freedom of association, and states' rights.
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As far as the bolded is concerned, it's been a while since the left has passed anything that works well.

Gay marriage might have been a more recent win for them, but plenty of younger conservatives had no problem with that. That was more of a generational issue than most.

Medicare for All is a terrible idea. Now, if the proposal is to convert our healthcare system into something that is more like the French system, then that would probably work.
 
Woko Haram said:
As far as the bolded is concerned, it's been a while since the left has passed anything that works well.

Gay marriage might have been a more recent win for them, but plenty of younger conservatives had no problem with that. That was more of a generational issue than most.

Medicare for All is a terrible idea. Now, if the proposal is to convert our healthcare system into something that is more like the French system, then that would probably work.
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Well it's a lot harder to pass left-wing policy in America. The Right is able to use the fear of multiracialism to get people to resist change, which is what happened with the rise of Trump. But when the Left does accomplish something, it's generally well-received. The ACA wasn't great, because Obama had to keep the Capitalists happy, but it worked pretty well and most Americans ended up embracing it.

That's part of how the Right becomes more liberal. Each generation is more liberal than the last, including among Conservatives. Younger Conservatives didn't have a problem with Catholic immigration, but that couldn't really happen until enough of the old generation died off. Then when we did let in Catholics in large numbers and the world didn't end, Catholic immigration became so normal, that's it's no longer a political issue. The exact same thing happened with gay marriage.
And like clockwork, younger Conservatives are more open to trans rights and making healthcare more affordable. Eventually, these things will happen on a large-scale, most Conservatives will decide they like them, and then they will no longer be considered political issues.
 
Woko Haram said:
As far as the bolded is concerned, it's been a while since the left has passed anything that works well.

Gay marriage might have been a more recent win for them, but plenty of younger conservatives had no problem with that. That was more of a generational issue than most.

Medicare for All is a terrible idea. Now, if the proposal is to convert our healthcare system into something that is more like the French system, then that would probably work.
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French System is the best in the world
 
StoneByStone said:
Well it's a lot harder to pass left-wing policy in America. The Right is able to use the fear of multiracialism to get people to resist change, which is what happened with the rise of Trump. But when the Left does accomplish something, it's generally well-received. The ACA wasn't great, because Obama had to keep the Capitalists happy, but it worked pretty well and most Americans ended up embracing it.
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The ACA was corporate welfare for insurance companies. How was that a good thing? 85% of the population was insured before the ACA was passed, so it amounted to making most of that 85% pay more for insurance just to cover the 15% -- some of whom didn't want insurance anyway. Plenty of people reject using insurance in general.

StoneByStone said:
That's part of how the Right becomes more liberal. Each generation is more liberal than the last, including among Conservatives. Younger Conservatives didn't have a problem with Catholic immigration, but that couldn't really happen until enough of the old generation died off. Then when we did let in Catholics in large numbers and the world didn't end, Catholic immigration became so normal, that's it's no longer a political issue. The exact same thing happened with gay marriage.
And like clockwork, younger Conservatives are more open to trans rights and making healthcare more affordable. Eventually, these things will happen on a large-scale, most Conservatives will decide they like them, and then they will no longer be considered political issues.
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How it happens is that the media is liberally biased and propagandizes youth into being more liberal. Admittedly, it is very effective. Academia has been compromised by this propaganda as well.

Eventually, however, it leads to what we're seeing in Europe. The mainstream culture will be consumed by foreign influences, many of which are ironically more conservative than the mainstream. In a few generations, Europe may serve well as a great demonstration of the self-destructive tendencies of progressivism.
 
Mr.Mason said:
French System is the best in the world
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In general, the French healthcare system is pretty good. However, the reason for that is because they have a competitive private market in addition to their public services. People generally use the public system for preventive and basic care, while using the private system for time-sensitive advanced care. It plays to the strength of each system.
 
Woko Haram said:
The ACA was corporate welfare for insurance companies. How was that a good thing? 85% of the population was insured before the ACA was passed, so it amounted to making most of that 85% pay more for insurance just to cover the 15% -- some of whom didn't want insurance anyway. Plenty of people reject using insurance in general.
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That's just it. There were too many people rejecting insurance. And then what happens when these people are rushed to the hospital and don't have insurance? We pay for it.
Like I said, it wasn't great, but it was better than what we had and most people were cool with it. So much so, that when Trump talked about repealing the ACA, even Conservatives pushed back.

How it happens is that the media is liberally biased and propagandizes youth into being more liberal. Admittedly, it is very effective. Academia has been compromised by this propaganda as well.

Eventually, however, it leads to what we're seeing in Europe. The mainstream culture will be consumed by foreign influences, many of which are ironically more conservative than the mainstream. In a few generations, Europe may serve well as a great demonstration of the self-destructive tendencies of progressivism.
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The media isn't liberal. Why would it be? 90% of media is controlled by five corporations that only want government regulation in the form of keeping the working-class down. In order words, they need conservative policies to get even richer. This is why they buried Bernie.
This whole narrative of the "liberal media" doesn't make sense. Rich people don't want Social Democracy.
 
StoneByStone said:
That's just it. There were too many people rejecting insurance. And then what happens when these people are rushed to the hospital and don't have insurance? We pay for it.
Like I said, it wasn't great, but it was better than what we had and most people were cool with it. So much so, that when Trump talked about repealing the ACA, even Conservatives pushed back.
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There's a much simpler way to deal with that. Get rid of the state's requirement that people have to be served even if they can't pay. Without that in place, prices normalize.

StoneByStone said:
The media isn't liberal. Why would it be? 90% of media is controlled by five corporations that only want government regulation in the form of keeping the working-class down. In order words, they need conservative policies to get even richer. This is why they buried Bernie.
This whole narrative of the "liberal media" doesn't make sense. Rich people don't want Social Democracy.
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Socially liberal, not economically liberal. I agree that the corporations don't want socialism or whatever else the economic left will push. They do, however, latch onto whatever socially left agenda is popular in order to keep certain narratives intact, and because many socially left positions benefit corporations -- like open borders that grant access to cheap labor.

In short, SJWs are useful idiots to media corporations. Another advantage of siding with identity politics is that it keeps the working class divided. If the social left stopped pushing identity politics, people could more easily focus on class issues, and that scares these corporations.

Even though I'm mostly economically conservative, I do recognize that class consciousness has its advantages for the common man. However, it's pretty clear that the social left has hijacked the mainstream and, by extension, undermined any success at creating unity among working class people. They instead just create more and more division with the "oppression olympics."
 
Woko Haram said:
There's a much simpler way to deal with that. Get rid of the state's requirement that people have to be served even if they can't pay. Without that in place, prices normalize.
Click to expand...

That's just not going to happen. We're not going to let people get rushed to the hospital, find out they have no insurance, and then let them die in the waiting room.

Socially liberal, not economically liberal. I agree that the corporations don't want socialism or whatever else the economic left will push. They do, however, latch onto whatever socially left agenda is popular in order to keep certain narratives intact, and because many socially left positions benefit corporations -- like open borders that grant access to cheap labor.

In short, SJWs are useful idiots to media corporations. Another advantage of siding with identity politics is that it keeps the working class divided. If the social left stopped pushing identity politics, people could more easily focus on class issues, and that scares these corporations.

Even though I'm mostly economically conservative, I do recognize that class consciousness has its advantages for the common man. However, it's pretty clear that the social left has hijacked the mainstream and, by extension, undermined any success at creating unity among working class people. They instead just create more and more division with the "oppression olympics."
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Open borders is the only position that benefits corporations and that's why the Republicans are in favor of it too. Other than that, the media isn't pushing any left-wing ideas, rather they will try to make money off of things that have already become normal. Broflakes are losing their minds that women are being more represented in comic books and video games now. The especially crazy among them are calling this Cultural Marxism. What's actually happening is the number of girls reading comic books and playing video games has been exploding during the past two decades. So now, companies are trying to capitalize on that by making more heroes and villains that look like the people buying comics and games. Don't blame the Left, blame Capitalism.
I've also heard the show "Modern Family" get called Cultural Marxist because it has a gay married couple with two adopted kids. But what's more likely? That this is a Cultural Marxist plot to turn people gay or something, or this is just a corporation trying to make money off of gay people who watch sitcoms?
 
rjhenn said:
Homer and Socrates were not the object of religious beliefs. Jesus is the center of religious beliefs. He has been molded by those beliefs as much as He has molded them.

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Homer clearly believed in the Greek gods and makes them pretty central to his writing, while Socrates believed in a 'daemon' which seems to be central to his development. Jesus, like everyone in his time, expressed his opinions through what you call 'religion': I think it makes more sense to translate those beliefs into our way of thinking than to strike antiquated nineteenth-century attitudes. The US is a bit backward in this respect, I fear. You seem to want to turn the whole human race before Darwin into idiots, and I don't think they were.
 
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rjhenn said:
Homer and Socrates were not the object of religious beliefs. Jesus is the center of religious beliefs. He has been molded by those beliefs as much as He has molded them.

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People did not make hardly any distinction between the secular and the religious in antiquity.

Homer was not the object and center of religious belief anymore than Luke, Mark, or Mathew were. They are simply the authors of works that purport to testify to historical figures, religious, ethical and spiritual themes .

The gods figure prominently in the Iliad and Odyssey, and ancient Greeks considered Homer to be faithfully recording the historical events and religious significance of a heroic past. Homer was not just light reading and entertainment for greeks. It was central to their view of history, ethics, religion. 19th century archaeology has confirmed some of the historicity of the Iliad.

In that sense, Homer, as an author, is almost exactly the same as the authors of the gospels Luke, Mark and Matthew.

As for Socrates, we do not have a single word ever written by him, and some could claim he is just a rhetorical device invented by Plato to give substance to his dialogues. The weight of evidence however, is that Socrates was a noted citizen of 5th century B.C. Athens.

As for Plato, he himself believed in an immortal soul, and that there was a transcendent reality beyond the impermanence of existance on this earth. So Plato's writing itself is imbued with spirituality and mysticism.
 
StoneByStone said:
That's just not going to happen. We're not going to let people get rushed to the hospital, find out they have no insurance, and then let them die in the waiting room.



Open borders is the only position that benefits corporations and that's why the Republicans are in favor of it too. Other than that, the media isn't pushing any left-wing ideas, rather they will try to make money off of things that have already become normal. Broflakes are losing their minds that women are being more represented in comic books and video games now. The especially crazy among them are calling this Cultural Marxism. What's actually happening is the number of girls reading comic books and playing video games has been exploding during the past two decades. So now, companies are trying to capitalize on that by making more heroes and villains that look like the people buying comics and games. Don't blame the Left, blame Capitalism.
I've also heard the show "Modern Family" get called Cultural Marxist because it has a gay married couple with two adopted kids. But what's more likely? That this is a Cultural Marxist plot to turn people gay or something, or this is just a corporation trying to make money off of gay people who watch sitcoms?
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Damn, are you blind to reality...
 
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