When Does Life End?

[apple0154]

Apple,

This statement needs to be backed up with stats.

Since Roe, pregnancy rates per capita have risen, not decreased. The number of kids being raised in single parent families has increased not decreased. Illegal abortions were rare because women did not find themselves pregnant as often, and if they did, men usually stepped up and married her or she sought a descrete place to have her baby and it was adopted.

Killing babies as convenience is an abomination. 97% of ALL abortions are for convenience...period.

I'm almost sure stats were not kept from the 50s and earlier. It was more word of mouth.

As you acknowledged women were sent away to a discrete place. The reason being if it became public knowledge she was ostracized. A man certainly would not bring such a woman home to meet his mother.

 

[apple0154]

Above is the exchange; why don't you show where the comprehension level failed??

ObvIously your comprehension level is lacking; because I thought it was pretty clear what I wanted to tell you.
But if you failed to understand, I'll repeat it.

FUCK YOU, YOU FUCKING ASSWIPE!!

I was referring to a boyfriend and a girlfriend, not incest or a back street rape but let's not get off topic. Let's say a woman is raped. How can you justify an abortion, in your mind the killing of an innocent human being? How can you justify taking the life of a human being because of the way he/she was created?

What value do you put on a human life? Because a woman did not want to have sex she should have the right to kill an innocent human being?

If that is the value you put on the life of a human being then you are the ass wipe along with being the biggest hypocrite of all time.

 

[apple0154]

You were the one that continues to make references to "back then".

In case you missed it, FUCK YOU, YOU FUCKING ASSWIPE.

My goodness. I sure touched a nerve there, didn't I? Are you sure there's nothing you want to share?

Yes, I do make references to "back then" for two reasons. First, because I'm old enough and, second, because I have done research. I know that restrictions on abortion resulted in destroying woman's lives and, in some cases, resulted in deaths due to botched abortions.

Restrictions on abortion caused emotional/mental trauma that lasted a lifetime and that is not going to happen again whether or not ass wipes like you think embryos and zygotes are human beings.

You have no idea what women and their children went through and although the world has changed bearing an unwanted child negatively impacts a woman's life as well as the child's.

Yes, I know of a woman who was young, bore a child, then had to give it up. All her life she wondered about that child. Well, for 18 years until they could contact the "authorities" and attempt to make contact with the child. The child was notified by the "authorities" and decided to meet her biological mother.

I know the mother very well as I dated her for a period of time, years after she gave up the child. I know the anguish she went through. I know the heartache she still goes through as she phoned me just last week to say she's coming for a visit to this country to see her daughter. Of course, the daughter never knew her growing up so there is no connection, no bond. Do you have any idea what that must feel like knowing the child you bore has no more feelings towards you than any other stranger?

Talking about ass wipe it's most fitting for you considering you're the one interested in other people's ass. Maybe that's due to having your head up yours for so long.

Frankly, I don't give a damn what you think of me. My only interest is exposing the hypocrisy and bullshit and lies and deceit and manipulation of anti-abortionists. They interfere in the most intimate aspects of people's lives, cause unnecessary anguish with their lies and deceit and manipulation, then walk away after a child comes into the world.

We aren't going back to the "good, ol' days" regardless of your screeching and perverted obsession with other people's asses and sex lives. Do us all a favor and go get laid, if you can.

P.S. My back is acting up and I'm a bit cranky.

 

[Damocles]

My "style" is asking direct questions and expecting direct answers. The reality is abortion is legal. It has been legal for over 35 years. If ones concern was late term abortions then common sense dictates they would want their government to insure women did not needlessly wait to have one done, regardless of the reason.

If one feels that's not the case I expect them to state so in a clear manner and post a link if they know of one. That is the civilized way to debate.

No, your style is to make up silly straw men and avoid thinking. It has been prevalent throughout the thread. When faced with deliberate ignorance the best advice I can and will follow is to just let people who want to be ignorant stay ignorant... I've walked you down the road to discovery where you were able to finally understand that something is alive that you previously said wasn't... I'll call that a Pyrrhic victory and move on, your deliberate ignorance knows no boundary.

As I said, I'm cool with that. What I'll never understand is how you can be.

 

[Canceled2]

I'm almost sure stats were not kept from the 50s and earlier. It was more word of mouth.

As you acknowledged women were sent away to a discrete place. The reason being if it became public knowledge she was ostracized. A man certainly would not bring such a woman home to meet his mother.

In other words you have NO proof to back up your statements. Stats on abortion deaths and other birth stats were collected prior to the 50's apple. That's how I can say that pregnancies have increased as well as single mothers....couple this with the fact that abortions have done nothing but increase permiscuity and a convenient way to be irresponsible and not face the consequences.

Going off to be discrete was not a bad thing...a little shame went a LONG way in curbing irresponsible sex. Before you say something:Any sex is irresponsible if you don't want a baby and do nothing to try and prevent it.

 

[USFREEDOM911]

I was referring to a boyfriend and a girlfriend, not incest or a back street rape but let's not get off topic. Let's say a woman is raped. How can you justify an abortion, in your mind the killing of an innocent human being? How can you justify taking the life of a human being because of the way he/she was created?

What value do you put on a human life? Because a woman did not want to have sex she should have the right to kill an innocent human being?

If that is the value you put on the life of a human being then you are the ass wipe along with being the biggest hypocrite of all time.

You don't get to change the subject and just hope that your stupid comments are forgotten.
Care to explain how you're talking about a boyfriend and a girlfriend, when you mentioned rape AND incest??

 

[USFREEDOM911]

My goodness. I sure touched a nerve there, didn't I? Are you sure there's nothing you want to share?

Yes, I do make references to "back then" for two reasons. First, because I'm old enough and, second, because I have done research. I know that restrictions on abortion resulted in destroying woman's lives and, in some cases, resulted in deaths due to botched abortions.

Restrictions on abortion caused emotional/mental trauma that lasted a lifetime and that is not going to happen again whether or not ass wipes like you think embryos and zygotes are human beings.

You have no idea what women and their children went through and although the world has changed bearing an unwanted child negatively impacts a woman's life as well as the child's.

Yes, I know of a woman who was young, bore a child, then had to give it up. All her life she wondered about that child. Well, for 18 years until they could contact the "authorities" and attempt to make contact with the child. The child was notified by the "authorities" and decided to meet her biological mother.

I know the mother very well as I dated her for a period of time, years after she gave up the child. I know the anguish she went through. I know the heartache she still goes through as she phoned me just last week to say she's coming for a visit to this country to see her daughter. Of course, the daughter never knew her growing up so there is no connection, no bond. Do you have any idea what that must feel like knowing the child you bore has no more feelings towards you than any other stranger?

Talking about ass wipe it's most fitting for you considering you're the one interested in other people's ass. Maybe that's due to having your head up yours for so long.

Frankly, I don't give a damn what you think of me. My only interest is exposing the hypocrisy and bullshit and lies and deceit and manipulation of anti-abortionists. They interfere in the most intimate aspects of people's lives, cause unnecessary anguish with their lies and deceit and manipulation, then walk away after a child comes into the world.

We aren't going back to the "good, ol' days" regardless of your screeching and perverted obsession with other people's asses and sex lives. Do us all a favor and go get laid, if you can.

P.S. My back is acting up and I'm a bit cranky.

Touched a nerve, would be correct.
I guess I"m just the odd one that doesn't find you equating rape and incest to "mommy doesn't feel like it.
Your lengthy attempt at spinning, doesn't detract from the FACT that you're an asswipe.

 

[apple0154]

No, your style is to make up silly straw men and avoid thinking. It has been prevalent throughout the thread. When faced with deliberate ignorance the best advice I can and will follow is to just let people who want to be ignorant stay ignorant... I've walked you down the road to discovery where you were able to finally understand that something is alive that you previously said wasn't... I'll call that a Pyrrhic victory and move on, your deliberate ignorance knows no boundary.

As I said, I'm cool with that. What I'll never understand is how you can be.

Walked ME down the road? HAHAHAHAHA. Only in your dreams.

The ignorance was on the part of those who believed the moment the sperm joined the egg a human being popped into existence as if it was a flash of lightening. It is a process taking approximately a full day.

 

[apple0154]

In other words you have NO proof to back up your statements. Stats on abortion deaths and other birth stats were collected prior to the 50's apple. That's how I can say that pregnancies have increased as well as single mothers....couple this with the fact that abortions have done nothing but increase permiscuity and a convenient way to be irresponsible and not face the consequences.

Going off to be discrete was not a bad thing...a little shame went a LONG way in curbing irresponsible sex. Before you say something:Any sex is irresponsible if you don't want a baby and do nothing to try and prevent it.

"Going off to be discrete was not a bad thing...a little shame went a LONG way"

That's exactly what I'm talking about. The wealthy, those with connections, knew doctors who would perform abortions. It was the less advantaged who suffered.

As for my having no proof the proof is in the fact the women had to go away. It was all hushed up. Why?

Why has one of the main arguments for legal access to abortion been woman having either died or became sterile from back street abortions? Do you honestly think I made that up? If so, you know little history concerning abortion.

 

[apple0154]

You don't get to change the subject and just hope that your stupid comments are forgotten.
Care to explain how you're talking about a boyfriend and a girlfriend, when you mentioned rape AND incest??

Anti-abortionists have this habit of taking a portion of the abortion argument and making it the issue on to itself or using twisted logic that would be outright discounted in any other situation.

What justifies giving a woman the right to kill an innocent human being, ASSUMING a zygote/embryo/fetus is a human being, because of how it came into being?

Most anti-abortionists bring God and/or morals and/or values and/or the sanctity of life into the discussion while at the same time having no problem allowing a woman to kill an innocent human being because of how it was created. What are they thinking? What has that innocent human being done, assuming it is a human being, to deserve the death penalty? How can anyone claiming the "high road" justify the death of that innocent human being, regardless of how it came into being? How? It is the height of absurdity and hypocrisy.

Whether the child was created in a moment of passion or in some back street it is a human being, according to anti-abortionists. What degree of twisted, perverted thinking goes into justifying the woman having the right to kill that human being?

So, I pose a question or two to you. Is a human being created from a violent rape less of a human being than one created by a happily married couple? Is the life of a human being created in the back seat of Daddy's car by two passionate teenagers more valuable than the life of a human being created through a violent rape? Are you the judge of what a human being is worth based on how they came into existence?

If so, what does the sanctity of life mean to you? How do morals and values fit in here?

 

[apple0154]

Touched a nerve, would be correct.
I guess I"m just the odd one that doesn't find you equating rape and incest to "mommy doesn't feel like it.
Your lengthy attempt at spinning, doesn't detract from the FACT that you're an asswipe.

I'll be back later to see if you answered the questions I posed in my last post. Do tell us how you judge the value of a human being. A point scale would be most appreciated.

 

[PostmodernProphet]

apple reminds me of zombie movies......the movie begins with her walking a vacant stared argument down a foggy street.....someone chops an arm off her argument, she still keeps walking....someone else chops a leg off her argument, she keeps hopping......someone else blows the other leg off, she drags herself along with one arm......a grenade takes off the last limb, she rolls down the road.....someone cuts off her head, she propels herself forward with mere jaw action......and even though she refuses to quit, the whole time her argument has been nothing but dead, rotten meat.....

 

[apple0154]

apple reminds me of zombie movies......the movie begins with her walking a vacant stared argument down a foggy street.....someone chops an arm off her argument, she still keeps walking....someone else chops a leg off her argument, she keeps hopping......someone else blows the other leg off, she drags herself along with one arm......a grenade takes off the last limb, she rolls down the road.....someone cuts off her head, she propels herself forward with mere jaw action......and even though she refuses to quit, the whole time her argument has been nothing but dead, rotten meat.....

"Vacant stare." Do you mean the way anti-abortionists look when questioned why it's fine to slaughter an innocent human because Mommy didn't want sex?

"Dead, rotten meat." Do you mean the way anti-abortionists think of human beings who were created without Mommy's consent?

Nothing says "Life is sacred" quite like determining the value of a life by who the mommy and daddy were.

 

[Canceled2]

"Going off to be discrete was not a bad thing...a little shame went a LONG way"

That's exactly what I'm talking about. The wealthy, those with connections, knew doctors who would perform abortions. It was the less advantaged who suffered.

As for my having no proof the proof is in the fact the women had to go away. It was all hushed up. Why?

Why has one of the main arguments for legal access to abortion been woman having either died or became sterile from back street abortions? Do you honestly think I made that up? If so, you know little history concerning abortion.

Again, no proof. The fact of the matter is that out of wedlock births prior to Roe were less common. Abortions were much less common. WHY? In short, women were more responsible when they had to face the consequences of their choices. Abortion is an abomination as much as slavery was.

It is the same mind set that results in actions that are justified because the human life in question is deemed to be less than human. It is this mind set that thinks by enacting laws that support their mind set that they can then stand on the side of right~~~In reality it's a false cocoon of self righteous arrogance!

 

[apple0154]

Again, no proof. The fact of the matter is that out of wedlock births prior to Roe were less common. Abortions were much less common. WHY? In short, women were more responsible when they had to face the consequences of their choices. Abortion is an abomination as much as slavery was.

It is the same mind set that results in actions that are justified because the human life in question is deemed to be less than human. It is this mind set that thinks by enacting laws that support their mind set that they can then stand on the side of right~~~iIn reality it's a false cocoon of self righteous arrogance!

Tell me what, exactly, is the value of a zygote/embryo/fetus when anti-abortionists condone abortion for rape victims? Why is it OK to kill an innocent human being? What logic are you drawing on? What values?

What morals condone killing an innocent human being because of how it was created?

That's where I have a problem with anti-abortionist propaganda. They claim it is a life. They claim life is sacred. But they have no problem killing that life depending on how it was created? Talk about arrogance! It sounds like they're wannabe Gods.

Then there's the idea of the mother's health. I've asked this many times and never get a reply. Is a kidney worth more than a human being? Partial loss of eye sight? The possibility of a stroke? Is the killing of an innocent human being as a precaution against a woman's possible health problems OK?

Help me here. I'm trying to determine the value anti-abortionists put on the life of a human being. If their argument is a zygote/embryo/fetus is a human being it seems vile, to me, to say their life it worth less than another person's kidney or the fact a person may require wearing glasses.

Or is the intention of anti-abortionists to prohibit abortions and then slowly narrow the reasons one may be permitted? In other words will it become necessary to prove the imminent death of a woman before an abortion is acceptable? If so, is it not reasonable to assume a doctor's judgment may be off in which case women will die?

Perhaps if anti-abortionists wanted to further their cause they'd print pamphlets answering questions like those posed. Why do we never see that? Any idea?

 

[USFREEDOM911]

Anti-abortionists have this habit of taking a portion of the abortion argument and making it the issue on to itself or using twisted logic that would be outright discounted in any other situation.

What justifies giving a woman the right to kill an innocent human being, ASSUMING a zygote/embryo/fetus is a human being, because of how it came into being?

Most anti-abortionists bring God and/or morals and/or values and/or the sanctity of life into the discussion while at the same time having no problem allowing a woman to kill an innocent human being because of how it was created. What are they thinking? What has that innocent human being done, assuming it is a human being, to deserve the death penalty? How can anyone claiming the "high road" justify the death of that innocent human being, regardless of how it came into being? How? It is the height of absurdity and hypocrisy.

Whether the child was created in a moment of passion or in some back street it is a human being, according to anti-abortionists. What degree of twisted, perverted thinking goes into justifying the woman having the right to kill that human being?

So, I pose a question or two to you. Is a human being created from a violent rape less of a human being than one created by a happily married couple? Is the life of a human being created in the back seat of Daddy's car by two passionate teenagers more valuable than the life of a human being created through a violent rape? Are you the judge of what a human being is worth based on how they came into existence?

If so, what does the sanctity of life mean to you? How do morals and values fit in here?

That is amusing.
Yoiu asking me if I'm a judge and yet here you are, judging everyone that doesn't go along with you.

I do see you're still attempting to run and hide from your mommy comment.

YOU'RE JUST A COWARDLY ASSWIPE.

 

[USFREEDOM911]

I'll be back later to see if you answered the questions I posed in my last post. Do tell us how you judge the value of a human being. A point scale would be most appreciated.

Keep looking all you want; because you get nothing in response, until you make amends for your rape, incest, and mommy comments.

So go ahead and spin this, as you're used to doiing when you're having your ass handed to you; but it still just means that you're nothing but an ASSWIPE.

 

[Canceled2]

Tell me what, exactly, is the value of a zygote/embryo/fetus when anti-abortionists condone abortion for rape victims? Why is it OK to kill an innocent human being? What logic are you drawing on? What values?

What morals condone killing an innocent human being because of how it was created?

That's where I have a problem with anti-abortionist propaganda. They claim it is a life. They claim life is sacred. But they have no problem killing that life depending on how it was created? Talk about arrogance! It sounds like they're wannabe Gods.

Then there's the idea of the mother's health. I've asked this many times and never get a reply. Is a kidney worth more than a human being? Partial loss of eye sight? The possibility of a stroke? Is the killing of an innocent human being as a precaution against a woman's possible health problems OK?

Help me here. I'm trying to determine the value anti-abortionists put on the life of a human being. If their argument is a zygote/embryo/fetus is a human being it seems vile, to me, to say their life it worth less than another person's kidney or the fact a person may require wearing glasses.

Or is the intention of anti-abortionists to prohibit abortions and then slowly narrow the reasons one may be permitted? In other words will it become necessary to prove the imminent death of a woman before an abortion is acceptable? If so, is it not reasonable to assume a doctor's judgment may be off in which case women will die?

Perhaps if anti-abortionists wanted to further their cause they'd print pamphlets answering questions like those posed. Why do we never see that? Any idea?

You keep inserting this argument when backed into a corner apple. Less than 2% of all abortions are related to rape, and most of those are incest...meaning a medical neccesity. If states choose to allow abortion for this reason I am down with it. This at least is a truly subjective gray area choice. The woman was not irresponsible she was violated. She truly could suffer from mental or physical causes directly related to the pregnancy that resulted due to this violation. The fact that you try and justify 97% of abortions because of this, is quite frankly, pathetic and illogical.

The truth of the matter is that a human being is created at the moment of conception and once it implants itself in a womans womb becomes viable unless nature or man kills it. It is no less human simply because it is in its beginning stages. The fact that people like you have to deem it non-human or less than human so that you can morally and legally kill it is exactly the mind set of those who who imposed slavery on an entire race of human beings...that's is arrogance at its height of expression!

 

[Canceled1]

apple reminds me of zombie movies......the movie begins with her walking a vacant stared argument down a foggy street.....someone chops an arm off her argument, she still keeps walking....someone else chops a leg off her argument, she keeps hopping......someone else blows the other leg off, she drags herself along with one arm......a grenade takes off the last limb, she rolls down the road.....someone cuts off her head, she propels herself forward with mere jaw action......and even though she refuses to quit, the whole time her argument has been nothing but dead, rotten meat.....

HERE. THIS WILL HELP...

 

[apple0154]

That is amusing.
Yoiu asking me if I'm a judge and yet here you are, judging everyone that doesn't go along with you.

I do see you're still attempting to run and hide from your mommy comment.

YOU'RE JUST A COWARDLY ASSWIPE.

Awwww. Just because you've been shown to be a hypocrite is no reason to be upset. I'm sure it's not the first time.

Anti-abortionists, all the same. They talk about how sacred life is but have no problem with killing an innocent human being if they don't like how that human being was created.

Do you ever think about what you espouse? Or perhaps I should ask, "Do you ever think?"

What is the life of a human being worth to you? One kidney? Partial loss of eye sight? A lost foot due to circulation problems resulting from uncontrolled diabetes? A few toes? One toe? Can you give us an idea?