Why Should Anyone Believe in Global Warming?

ZenMode said:
Are you under the impression that copy/paste means you truly understand what you're copying/pasting?
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Shall I take it that you truly have no interest in learning anything? I made a good faith offer to clear up your misconceptions. All I asked you to do was to tell me how you believe you would go about computing the earth's temperature. Shall I simply resume with the mockery?
 
ZenMode said:
There isn't a singular global climate,but every square inch of the planet has a measurable climate.
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What is the unit of measurement for climate?

ZenMode said:
If a blanket over your body is effective in slowing the flow of energy from the body to the colder atmosphere, then your understanding of the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics is clearly misguided because if you were right, a blanket would do nothing.
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Scenario 'A': ZenMode is dressed in shorts and a t-shirt and is sitting in a 58degF room underneath an elevated outstretched blanket that is not wrapped around himself (i.e. a "blanket over his body" in the form of a canopy).

Scenario 'B': ZenMode is dressed in shorts and a t-shirt and is sitting in a 58degF room underneath a non-elevated outstretched blanket that is wrapped around himself (i.e. a "blanket over his body" that is comfortably wrapped around himself).

Question (that I already know the answer to): Why is ZenMode "warm" in Scenario 'B' but "cold" in Scenario 'A'?

Question (for ZenMode): Why should any rational adult believe that Earth's atmosphere "is not a blanket" but "acts like a blanket" resulting in Earth's temperature increasing (even though Earth's atmosphere is already a part of Earth)?
 
gfm7175 said:
What is the unit of measurement for climate?
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There isn't a single unit of measure....which you already knew. "Climate" is a measure of temperature and precipitation in a specific area.
Scenario 'A': ZenMode is dressed in shorts and a t-shirt and is sitting in a 58degF room underneath an elevated outstretched blanket that is not wrapped around himself (i.e. a "blanket over his body" in the form of a canopy).
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A more accurate comparison to Scenario A would be a tent, not a blanket, since a tent fully encloses me, just as the atmosphere fully encloses the earth....sort of**.
Scenario 'B': ZenMode is dressed in shorts and a t-shirt and is sitting in a 58degF room underneath a non-elevated outstretched blanket that is wrapped around himself (i.e. a "blanket over his body" that is comfortably wrapped around himself).

Question (that I already know the answer to): Why is ZenMode "warm" in Scenario 'B' but "cold" in Scenario 'A'?

Question (for ZenMode): Why should any rational adult believe that Earth's atmosphere "is not a blanket" but "acts like a blanket" resulting in Earth's temperature increasing (even though Earth's atmosphere is already a part of Earth)?
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First, let's talk about scenario B where the blanket is on me. According to what other climate change skeptics have posted, climate change can't happen because the colder atmosphere can't warm the Earth. That's based on the understanding of the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics- a colder gas can't warm something that is already warmer than it is. IF that assumption is accurate, then a 58 degree blanket in a 58 degree room, even if it's completely covering me, should not be able to warm me, right? According to the understanding of the 2nd Law, the colder blanket should not be able to "warm" my warmer body, right?

** The earth's atmosphere actually starts at ground level, but there's no need to add that complication into the discussion at this point.
 
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gfm7175 said:
What is the unit of measurement for climate?


Scenario 'A': ZenMode is dressed in shorts and a t-shirt and is sitting in a 58degF room underneath an elevated outstretched blanket that is not wrapped around himself (i.e. a "blanket over his body" in the form of a canopy).

Scenario 'B': ZenMode is dressed in shorts and a t-shirt and is sitting in a 58degF room underneath a non-elevated outstretched blanket that is wrapped around himself (i.e. a "blanket over his body" that is comfortably wrapped around himself).

Question (that I already know the answer to): Why is ZenMode "warm" in Scenario 'B' but "cold" in Scenario 'A'?

Question (for ZenMode): Why should any rational adult believe that Earth's atmosphere "is not a blanket" but "acts like a blanket" resulting in Earth's temperature increasing (even though Earth's atmosphere is already a part of Earth)?
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No one claimed that the temperature is increased past equilibrium as, like you love to Parrot, it violates the 1st.
 
gfm7175 said:
You say you're "quickly bored", yet here you still are.

If you're being honest with yourself, then you'd admit that you can't get enough of us.
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True. We laugh at you guy(s) constantly. Sometimes it gets boring since you keep repeating yourself over and over. Then when you guy(s) say something so stupid, we laugh again.

You are a clown living in a circus tent.
 
IBDaMann said:
Shall I take it that you truly have no interest in learning anything? I made a good faith offer to clear up your misconceptions. All I asked you to do was to tell me how you believe you would go about computing the earth's temperature. Shall I simply resume with the mockery?
Click to expand...

Against my better judgement, I'm going down this path again. I highlighted the relevant exchange with gfm. What are your thoughts?

gfm7175 said:
What is the unit of measurement for climate?
Click to expand...
There isn't a single unit of measure....which you already knew. "Climate" is a measure of temperature and precipitation in a specific area.
Scenario 'A': ZenMode is dressed in shorts and a t-shirt and is sitting in a 58degF room underneath an elevated outstretched blanket that is not wrapped around himself (i.e. a "blanket over his body" in the form of a canopy).
Click to expand...

A more accurate comparison to Scenario A would be a tent, not a blanket, since a tent fully encloses me, just as the atmosphere fully encloses the earth....sort of**.
Scenario 'B': ZenMode is dressed in shorts and a t-shirt and is sitting in a 58degF room underneath a non-elevated outstretched blanket that is wrapped around himself (i.e. a "blanket over his body" that is comfortably wrapped around himself).

Question (that I already know the answer to): Why is ZenMode "warm" in Scenario 'B' but "cold" in Scenario 'A'?

Question (for ZenMode): Why should any rational adult believe that Earth's atmosphere "is not a blanket" but "acts like a blanket" resulting in Earth's temperature increasing (even though Earth's atmosphere is already a part of Earth)?
Click to expand...

First, let's talk about scenario B where the blanket is on me. According to what other climate change skeptics have posted, climate change can't happen because the colder atmosphere can't warm the Earth. That's based on the understanding of the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics- a colder gas can't warm something that is already warmer than it is. IF that assumption is accurate, then a 58 degree blanket in a 58 degree room, even if it's completely covering me, should not be able to warm me, right? According to the understanding of the 2nd Law, the colder blanket should not be able to "warm" my warmer body, right?

** The earth's atmosphere actually starts at ground level, but there's no need to add that complication into the discussion at this point.
 
What is the unit of measurement for climate?
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ZenMode said:
There isn't a single unit of measure....which you already knew.
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Oh of course. So according to you there are multiple units of measure for climate. That's great. I'll then amend my question:

"What is a unit of measure for climate?"

I'm sure you can tell me just one of the many units of measure for climate then? ...

ZenMode said:
"Climate" is a measure of temperature and precipitation in a specific area.
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Not what I asked. Please pay attention. I asked you for the unit of measure for climate. For example, 'inches' is a unit of measure for distance and 'fluid ounces' is a unit of measure for volume. You corrected my egregious error and told me that climate has all sorts of units of measure, not just one. Ergo:

What is a unit of measure for climate? I'd like to measure and verify for myself this "measurable climate" of which you speak.

ZenMode said:
A more accurate comparison to Scenario A would be a tent, not a blanket, since a tent fully encloses me, just as the atmosphere fully encloses the earth....sort of**.
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Hahahahaha "sort of" hahahahahaha.... gotta leave that escape door open, eh? You do realize that "the atmosphere" IS A PART OF EARTH, right? How can Earth enclose Earth? Earth IS Earth.

ZenMode said:
First, let's talk about scenario B where the blanket is on me. According to what other climate change skeptics have posted, climate change can't happen because the colder atmosphere can't warm the Earth. That's based on the understanding of the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics- a colder gas can't warm something that is already warmer than it is. IF that assumption is accurate, then a 58 degree blanket in a 58 degree room, even if it's completely covering me, should not be able to warm me, right?
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Right, and the blanket is NOT warming you. Your temperature is regulated, remember?

ZenMode said:
According to the understanding of the 2nd Law, the colder blanket should not be able to "warm" my warmer body, right?
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Right, and you're NOT being warmed by the blanket. Your temperature is regulated, remember?

ZenMode said:
** The earth's atmosphere actually starts at ground level, but there's no need to add that complication into the discussion at this point.
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You haven't even understood the most basic of things as of yet.

P.S. "FEELING warmer" (subjectively asserted) is NOT equivalent to "BEING warmer" (objectively measured).
 
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ZenMode said:
IF that assumption is accurate, then a 58 degree blanket in a 58 degree room, even if it's completely covering me, should not be able to warm me, right?
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This is why you have to use the cold stone wrapped in a cold blanket example if you want to draw a parallel. The human body is warm blooded and is its own heat source. The earth, however, is not its own heat source. Wrapping a blanket around the earth is akin to wrapping a blanket around a cold stone, which we have already acknowledged will not increase in temperature and will not keep the stone warm.

ZenMode said:
According to the understanding of the 2nd Law, the colder blanket should not be able to "warm" my warmer body, right?
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Your body is warming your body. This is why living things are never included in science/thought experiments. Go back to the cold stone wrapped in a blanket and tell me when the blanket "warms" the stone.

ZenMode said:
** The earth's atmosphere actually starts at ground level, but there's no need to add that complication into the discussion at this point.
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Yes, there most certainly is. If you wish to discuss black body science, you must be prepared to specify whether you are discussing the bottom of the atmosphere, the top of the atmosphere, or the entirety of the atmosphere. If you simply use the word "surface" to conveniently shift semantics between "the bottom of the atmosphere" and "the top of the atmosphere" and "sea level" and "ground level (at elevation)" then all of your conclusions will be discarded as invalid, pointing back to the shifting semantics.
 
IBDaMann said:
This is why you have to use the cold stone wrapped in a cold blanket example if you want to draw a parallel. The human body is warm blooded and is its own heat source. The earth, however, is not its own heat source. Wrapping a blanket around the earth is akin to wrapping a blanket around a cold stone, which we have already acknowledged will not increase in temperature and will not keep the stone warm.
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:rofl2: Thanks for the laugh.
 
gfm7175 said:
Oh of course. So according to you there are multiple units of measure for climate. That's great. I'll then amend my question:

"What is a unit of measure for climate?"

I'm sure you can tell me just one of the many units of measure for climate then? ...


Not what I asked. Please pay attention. I asked you for the unit of measure for climate. For example, 'inches' is a unit of measure for distance and 'fluid ounces' is a unit of measure for volume. You corrected my egregious error and told me that climate has all sorts of units of measure, not just one. Ergo:

What is a unit of measure for climate? I'd like to measure and verify for myself this "measurable climate" of which you speak.
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There is no measure of climate. Climate is a term the refers to averages of, at the very least, temperature and precipitation.
Hahahahaha "sort of" hahahahahaha.... gotta leave that escape door open, eh? You do realize that "the atmosphere" IS A PART OF EARTH, right? How can Earth enclose Earth? Earth IS Earth.
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I said "sort of" because a tent is not the same as atmosphere. Atmosphere starts at the Earth's surface and extends up from there. A tent does not. Earth is the physical planet. The atmosphere is not part of the physical planet any more than a blanket or tent is part of me simply because it's around me.
Right, and the blanket is NOT warming you. Your temperature is regulated, remember?


Right, and you're NOT being warmed by the blanket. Your temperature is regulated, remember?


You haven't even understood the most basic of things as of yet.

P.S. "FEELING warmer" (subjectively asserted) is NOT equivalent to "BEING warmer" (objectively measured).
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You can pick whatever terminology you want to use if it allows you to actually answer the question. If you have a 58 degree blanket in a 58 degree room, you, wearing short sleeves and shorts, will experience the coolness of the room differently if you are fully covered in the blanket. IF the claimed understanding, on this forum, of the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics is accurate, putting a 58 degree blanket over you should have no impact on how you experience the cooler air in the room.

If you disagree, please explain why.
 
IBDaMann said:
This is why you have to use the cold stone wrapped in a cold blanket example if you want to draw a parallel. The human body is warm blooded and is its own heat source. The earth, however, is not its own heat source. Wrapping a blanket around the earth is akin to wrapping a blanket around a cold stone, which we have already acknowledged will not increase in temperature and will not keep the stone warm.

Your body is warming your body. This is why living things are never included in science/thought experiments. Go back to the cold stone wrapped in a blanket and tell me when the blanket "warms" the stone.
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Thanks for diving right into the heart of it.
 
ZenMode said:
There isn't a single unit of measure....which you already knew. "Climate" is a measure of temperature and precipitation in a specific area.
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Nope. Climate is not a measure, and climate has no measure. It is a subjective characterization. It has no values. Ask yourself, what is the climate of Phoenix, Arizona? Answer: it is really hot ... and dry. It is a hot, desert climate. There are no numbers. There are no measures. There is no weather. There is no data. There is nothing that can change.

As such, you can see how absurd it is to speak of a global climate. What would that even be? Freezing hot? Cloudy/Foggy/Clear and sunny? Windy calm? Rainy arid? All of them and none of them? The idea of a global climate is an inherent contradiction in terms. Inherent in the word climate is the idea of exclusively local conditions, so there can't be a global local anything.

ZenMode said:
A more accurate comparison to Scenario A would be a tent, not a blanket, since a tent fully encloses me, just as the atmosphere fully encloses the earth....sort of**.
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Nope. As long as you are warm blooded and serve as your own heat source, you have to go with the "cold stone wrapped in the cold blanket" scenario. Or, you could possibly use a cold blooded reptile that has been acclimated to room temperature and then wrap it in a room-temperature blanket and notice how the reptile does not increase in temperature and eventually dies of hypothermia while wrapped in a cumfy wool blanket.
 
IBDaMann said:
This is why you have to use the cold stone wrapped in a cold blanket example if you want to draw a parallel. The human body is warm blooded and is its own heat source. The earth, however, is not its own heat source. Wrapping a blanket around the earth is akin to wrapping a blanket around a cold stone, which we have already acknowledged will not increase in temperature and will not keep the stone warm.

Your body is warming your body. This is why living things are never included in science/thought experiments. Go back to the cold stone wrapped in a blanket and tell me when the blanket "warms" the stone.
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The stone/blanket comparison isn't any more accurate. What would be more accurate is the experience of a stone (earth) in a tent (atmosphere). With no additional energy the stone inside a tent, which is sitting in direct sunlight, is comparable to how climate change is believed to work. However, if the forum beliefs of the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics are accurate, there should be no change inside the 58 degree tent, right?
 
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