A good example of why people are screaming for HC reform.

[canceled.2021.1]

I don't see what this has to do with personal responsibility. You go to see a doctor to check on your health for a reason. I don't see how it is responsible to ignore ta doctor's recommendation on the grounds of price.

And getting an answer to the costs prior to the procedure isn't a matter of intelligence. Cost isn't fixed in most cases. If you have insurance, the cost is a hell of a lot different than if you do. And among different insurers the cost is different. And depending on your insurer and type of coverage, what you end up having to pay out of pocket is variable. So it's not a matter of being intelligent, really. Anyone can find out the cost before the procedure it they put the time it, but in most instances it's going to take some time. And really, at the end of the day, most people are going to follow the recommendation of their doctors because that's what doctors are for.

Dr's recommend lots of shit people ignore. Happens all the time.

FAIL

 

[Bonestorm]

Dear moron... try to pay attention to what this thread is about. Mutt is bitching and moaning that he didn't know the costs prior to all the tests. The personal responsibility was HIS to make sure that he got that if it was that important to him. It was up to Mutt to say 'hey, I am worried about the costs, I want to know what they are prior to doing them'.

That is all he had to say. If they said no, then Mutt would probably have a good indication he was dealing with one of those unscrupulous doctors you mentioned. But Mutt didn't. Instead, he asked and then when not answered, he went along with it anyway and now wants to bitch about it.

Dear Wise Man of the Board Learned in all Matters Requiring Learning, your comments have gone well-beyond Mott's specific circumstances to generalities about doctor's a patients. My comments have as well. I'm not even talking about Mott. I'm responding to your general pronouncements. You have, quite explicitly, said that people are idiots for following the advice of their physicians and that doctors bear no blame for recommending unnecessary treatments and procedures. The answer to "how much does this cost" depends on whether you have insurance, whether the insurance company is under contract with the doctor, what negotiated reimbursement rate the insurance company and the physician have agreed to and (for cost to the patient) the particulars of a individual's insurance plan.

It is when you are concerned with it as Mutt has said he was. It is if you are going to after the fact bitch about not getting it before the procedure.

No, it isn't. It's really a function of time and speaking with the right person in the office and speaking with your insurance company (where applicable).

LMAO... you have no idea how hospitals/doctors offices work do you? You think they just randomly assign the costs to procedures/tests? No... they already know what they are.

Actually, I know quite well how a doctor's office works. In fact, a close family member of mine is an office manager for a physician. No, prices aren't randomly assigned to procedures. However, the amount that a physician will be paid for performing a procedure varies depending on who is paying for it. If you have no insurance, you will be billed and be required to pay whatever price the doctor sets. If you have insurance, you will not and your insurance company will not. In most instances, the insurers with whom the doctor has a relationship have entered into contractual arrangements that set the amount that the doctor will be reimbursed for by a patient's insurance company for various procedures. These reimbursement amounts vary among insurance companies. So, no, price is not random, but is dependent on a number of factors that makes the answer to the question variable.

Yes, insurance plans are different. Thanks captain obvious. But if they tell Mutt the total costs, he will likely know what his plan covers and what his deductible is. IF he doesn't, that is yet again on him.

As I said, some people are really more like sheep. You and those that simply follow the recommendation of their doctors without question are a big part of the problem.

Again, I don't see how relying on the advice of the professional you have solicited to give you advice is being a sheep. That's what doctors are for. We have them and pay them so much because they have specific training and education that we don't have. They're the experts. The bigger part of the problem (and the part that you for some odd reason refuse to acknowledge) is doctors recommending unnecessary treatments and procedures in the first instance.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

and who's fault IS that......would we go to a mechanic and not refuse to let him start working without getting a quote?.......would we go to a grocery store that didn't label the cans or let us know how much they were charging for bread until after we ate it?.......we have gotten where we are because no one cared when we thought "someone else is paying for it"......the insurance company paid our bills, our employers paid for our insurance....we are merely reaping what we've sown.......the question has arisen because we need to decide if we will continue sowing it......if our "solution" is "the government and rich people's taxes will pay for it" the problem isn't going away......

That's a legitimate point. I take that blame. I should have threatened to walk out unless I was given a straight answer about the cost. What I was collosolly niave about was getting billed $2,500 for a stress test. I was thinking it would be in the realm of $500. Live and learn. I know my GP is going to hear about it. Fuck that Doctor/Patient shit. It's my money and I'm paying the bill. If they don't respect that.....time for a new GP.

And that's really the issue to me. My father is a physician and so was my late Uncle. Now they didn't have a God complex but they were both grossly insenstive to other peoples financial situations. Their attitudes, and they learned this in grad school, was authoritarian. "I'm the Doctor, I know what's best, do what I say with out question and pay the bill 30 day net.". Anyone who didn't meet that expectation was either a problem patient or a free loader.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

You are just too ignorant to realize the stress test comes when you get the bill. They are watching you right now and documenting for posterity.

That would explain the transmitting wires on the envelopes.

 

[The Dude]

That's hat I'm talking about Mott

 

[Mott the Hoople]

and yet you continued on... you want to know how they get away with it? There are a lot of idiots in this world that will simply follow along and do what they are told without getting the answer.

Yup. You're right. I should have told them "We proceed no further till I'm informed on how much this will cost." I assumed and you know the old saying about that.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Let me guess, you think the government should determine what the 'good salary' is?

No, actually the market determines that. They post a job offer with competative salaries but profits must be spent on patient care and not executive bonuses or dividends.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

They aren't forced to do squat. They're professionals for Christ's sake and earn a damn good living on the basis of their professional judgment. If they think they're professional judgment is inadequate and indefensible, they ought to look for a new line of work.

You don't think doctors are forced to use defensive medicine practices?

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Dear Wise Man of the Board Learned in all Matters Requiring Learning, your comments have gone well-beyond Mott's specific circumstances to generalities about doctor's a patients. My comments have as well. I'm not even talking about Mott. I'm responding to your general pronouncements. You have, quite explicitly, said that people are idiots for following the advice of their physicians and that doctors bear no blame for recommending unnecessary treatments and procedures. The answer to "how much does this cost" depends on whether you have insurance, whether the insurance company is under contract with the doctor, what negotiated reimbursement rate the insurance company and the physician have agreed to and (for cost to the patient) the particulars of a individual's insurance plan.

Dear douchbag... where did I state they are idiots for following the advice of physicians. Where did I state that doctors bear no blame for unneccesary treatments. Go ahead... link up to that post.

 

[Bonestorm]

You don't think doctors are forced to use defensive medicine practices?

No, I don't. I think many elect to.

 

[Bonestorm]

Dear douchbag... where did I state they are idiots for following the advice of physicians. Where did I state that doctors bear no blame for unneccesary treatments. Go ahead... link up to that post.

Um, is what I said not a fair reading of this post?

The truth of the matter is, you continue to try and place the blame on the doctor rather than on the dumbass patient. The truth of the matter is that their are a lot of people who are just too fucking retarded to get the price up front. This doesn't seem to have been a life threatening 'do it now, you could be dead in ten minutes' thing where Mutt just simply didn't have the time to get the answer. He chose to be a sheep and be led along.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

They are forced to practice defensive medicine to protect themselves from the lazy fucks who make a living suing respectable professionals.

They're also pressured into ordering additional testing and hospitalization, when not necessary, to increase reveneu.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

You don't think doctors are forced to use defensive medicine practices?

I wouldn't say "forced" but some certainly feel pressured too. Many more feel pressured from the business end of hospitals and clinics to order as much testing and procedures as possible to increase revenue and not based on patient needs. So that works both ways. I've talked with more than one phsycician who told me that they would order additional x-rays, lab work, tests and non-invasive procedures for patients, even when they were not indicated by the case history, because they are what drove the clinics profit center and there was a lot of pressure on them from the clinic/hospitial administration to increase revenue streams. They called it "MBA Medicine."

 

[Cancel 2018. 3]

Easily. They provide a service for which they earn a good salary that is funded by the public. The system in France, which by the way is the best in the world in terms of results, uses private insurance companies to manage health care finance but they are legaly operated as non-profits. In fact in all modern industrialized nations except the US all health insurance companies are operated as non-profits. It's a big factor in controling costs.

can you provide a cite or link for that...i would be interested to see it.

 

[Phantasmal]

You were the prick. You were the dumbass who kept going along with the treatments without getting the answer first. You know what you do when they don't answer???

You say NO

Yeah, good advice, since I know so much about medicine, when I was diagnosed with cancer, it was what I told my oncologist every visit? Sometimes, I would call him on the phone in between visits just to let him know I really mean it!

 

[The Dude]

It shows serious lack of economics to think insurance profits re the only cause of extreme medical cost!

 

[Phantasmal]

An intelligent person can get the answer to the costs prior to the procedure. You and many of the other left wing morons can't ever seem to grasp the concept of personal responsibility. You instead trot out the bullshit like yours above and then pretend it is the doctors fault.

SF, when it is your heart, when it is cancer, when they say certain buzz words, you want to know the costs, you asks for the costs, but bottom line, you do what your doctor suggests, there are just certain things that you just do.

The frustrating part is that these professionals know you will do it. There is little service to the consumer when it comes to medical practices. They know they have you between a rock and a hard place.

When I had elective surgery all the costs were estimated and presented to me, the same was not supplied when I went through cancer treatment and the bottom line is, you not care, you do what you have to to live.

It sucks.

 

[Phantasmal]

That's a legitimate point. I take that blame. I should have threatened to walk out unless I was given a straight answer about the cost. What I was collosolly niave about was getting billed $2,500 for a stress test. I was thinking it would be in the realm of $500. Live and learn. I know my GP is going to hear about it. Fuck that Doctor/Patient shit. It's my money and I'm paying the bill. If they don't respect that.....time for a new GP.

And that's really the issue to me. My father is a physician and so was my late Uncle. Now they didn't have a God complex but they were both grossly insenstive to other peoples financial situations. Their attitudes, and they learned this in grad school, was authoritarian. "I'm the Doctor, I know what's best, do what I say with out question and pay the bill 30 day net.". Anyone who didn't meet that expectation was either a problem patient or a free loader.

Ridiculous analogy, you don't die from a faulty battery, but you do go into a bit of shock when the word "heart" is mentioned.

We as patients need to be pro active, but sometimes there is just no choice.

 

[cancel2 2022]

It shows serious lack of economics to think insurance profits re the only cause of extreme medical cost!

Instead of your usual one line answers, how about you use that keen MBA trained brain and tell everybody what the real problems are??

 

[The Dude]

Instead of you usual one line answers, how about you show everybody that keen MBA trained brain and tell everybody what the real problems are??

Learn to read I've listed them numerous times
For instance, what is the average salary of a doctor!
Not in third rate England but here!