Kerry reverts to his roots

christiefan915 said:
The lying is on your shoulders, buddy. None of us said the entire American military was a bunch of war criminals. But the proof is indisputable that some were, and that the military and the government did nothing about it except cover it up for decades.

I'm still waiting for your response on Camil and Ridenhour. Were they lying about the atrocities also? And the others who testified at the hearings, were they lying?
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Sweety drawers, it's called war .. modern war and sometimes innocent people get hurt and killed.

But that doesn't explain why you think we were war criminals.

How many of my fallen brothers on the wall were war criminals?

If there are the names of war criminals on that wall, that thing should be removed.

It's like putting up a memorial for SS Nazi soldiers.

I agree with you that it should be destroyed in the name of decency.

Shouldn't there be a memorial built for your side who won the war in it's place? The communists were the liberators of the Vietnamese people and fought the U.S. imperialists.
 
philly rabbit said:
Look, they're either war criminals or they're not war criminals. According to you, they're war criminals. So at least stay consistent.
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Sorry, false dichotomy. Learn it here: http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FalseDichotomy

How many of us were war criminals? You said some. How many are some by your estimation? 40%? 50%? 75%?
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Hopefully a very small percentage of the total. But who knows? We didn't even know about Tiger Force until 30 years after it happened. Who can say how much is still being hidden?

Now your entire underlining theme on this thread is that Kerry was telling the truth and you even dug up a story to verify that he was.
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And? He was telling the truth. I provided info from others beside him who said the same thing. I gave news articles about My Lai and Tiger Force. You and your pals certainly didn't prove he was lying.

I know it's uncomfortable for you that atrocities were proven and you can't crow about American high standards and exceptionalism during war. Maybe you have PTSD. Seek help from your nearest VA hospital.
[h=1]Will America Ever Grapple with the Atrocities It Committed in Vietnam?[/h]
 
philly rabbit said:
I said that you were trying to change U.S. foreign policy when your side won that war. You changed it because the communists won which is what you wanted to happen.
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:rolleyes: Yeah, that's right. I wanted 58,286 American deaths, 153,303 American wounded and 1645 American MIA just so communism would triumph in a country halfway around the world from here.

Seek help, you really need it.
 
philly rabbit said:
Sweety drawers, it's called war .. modern war and sometimes innocent people get hurt and killed.
Click to expand...

Yes and our wonderful government calls it "collateral damage." How nice of them to dehumanize the victims.

But that doesn't explain why you think we were war criminals.

How many of my fallen brothers on the wall were war criminals?
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I already explained many times over who I think were war criminals. And I include in that bunch all the armchair generals and talking heads in DC who made that war happen.

If there are the names of war criminals on that wall, that thing those names should be removed.

It's like putting up a memorial for SS Nazi soldiers.
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Take it up with your Senators.

I agree with you that it should be destroyed in the name of decency.

Shouldn't there be a memorial built for your side who won the war in it's place? The communists were the liberators of the Vietnamese people and fought the U.S. imperialists.
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Really lame. Seek help for your longstanding PTSD.
 
Originally Posted by Truth Detector This is a loony blogosphere myth that cannot be supported by credible facts; further proof that you selectively get your information from the loony leftist blogs and avoid reality and truth.
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Then refute this.

"Saddam Hussein donated hundreds of thousands of dollars to a Detroit church and received a key to the city more than two decades ago, soon after he became president of Iraq.

The events contrast sharply with the attack Saddam's regime is now facing from a U.S.-led coalition, reflecting his changed relationship with the United States since Washington helped Saddam covertly in his 1980-88 war with Iran.

Saddam's bond with Detroit started in 1979, when the Rev. Jacob Yasso of Chaldean Sacred Heart congratulated Saddam on his presidency. In return, Yasso said, his church received $250,000.

"He was very kind person, very generous, very cperative with the West. Lately, what's happened, I don't know," Yasso, 70, said Wednesday. "Money and power changed the person."

Detroit Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick did not immediately return a phone message seeking comment.

Yasso said that at the time, Saddam made donations to Chaldean churches around the world.

"He's very kind to Christians," Yasso said.

Chaldeans are a Catholic group in predominantly Muslim Iraq. Among prominent Chaldeans is Iraq's deputy prime minister, Tariq Aziz.

A year later, Yasso traveled with about two dozen people to Baghdad as a guest of the Iraqi government, and they were invited to Saddam's palace.

"We were received on the red carpet," Yasso said.

Yasso said he presented Saddam with the key to the city, courtesy of then-Mayor Coleman Young. Then, Yasso said, he got a surprise.

"He said, `I heard there was a debt on your church. How much is it?"' Yasso said.

Saddam donated another $200,000.

In the 1980s, Iraq and the United States were allied in their mistrust of Iran, which held hundreds of Americans hostage under the regime of Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini.

Yasso called Saddam an American puppet.

"The job the United States trusted to him is done; now he's no good," he said.

There are tens of thousands of Chaldeans among the roughly 300,000 Americans of Middle Eastern descent in the Detroit area. About 1,200 families attend Sacred Heart, said Yasso, who came to the United States in 1964.

View attachment 2335
 
maineman said:
Here... in case you lost track...here is the question again: After the fall of Saigon the country went communist. Now explain how US foreign policy was drastically changed because of it.
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I do not believe US policy drastically changed as a result of Vietnam. The main lesson to be learned from Vietnam is that one cannot and should never enter into military engagements in the belief they can be "limited."

It didn't work in Korea, it didn't work in Vietnam, it isn't working for this adminstration in Libya and now they think they can do it in Syria.

If you have a point, please make it.
 
quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by Truth Detector
I am amused, you claim that the Saudi’s are cruel and vicious, yet their citizens are some of the most free and wealthy in the world. Yep, that is certainly cruel.
Click to expand...

Free? Now I am amused.

Saudi Arabia

Saudi Arabia in 2012 stepped up arrests and trials of peaceful dissidents, and responded with force to demonstrations by citizens. Authorities continue to suppress or fail to protect the rights of 9 million Saudi women and girls and 9 million foreign workers. As in past years, thousands of people have received unfair trials or been subject to arbitrary detention. The year has seen trials against half-a-dozen human rights defenders and several others for their peaceful expression or assembly demanding political and human rights reforms...

Under the discriminatory Saudi guardianship system, girls and women are forbidden from traveling, conducting official business, or undergoing certain medical procedures without permission from their male guardians. In July, after a car chase by religious police left the driver dead and his wife and daughter in critical condition, King Fahd hospital in Baha postponed amputating the wife’s hand because she had no male legal guardian to authorize the procedure, Okaz newspaper reported...

Women remain banned from driving. In November 2011, lawyer Abd al-Rahman al-Lahim sued the traffic department on behalf of Manal al-Sharif, who led a women’s driving protest in May 2011, for gender discrimination after the department refused to issue her a driving license. The case remained pending at this writing...

Over 9 million migrant workers fill manual, clerical, and service jobs, constituting more than half the workforce. Many suffer multiple abuses and labor exploitation, sometimes amounting to slavery-like conditions...

Some 1.5 million migrant domestic workers remain excluded from the 2005 Labor Law. In years past, Asian embassies reported thousands of complaints from domestic workers forced to work 15 to 20 hours a day, seven days a week, and denied their salaries. Domestic workers, most of them women, frequently endure forced confinement, food deprivation, and severe psychological, physical, and sexual abuse...

Detainees, including children, commonly face systematic violations of due process and fair trial rights, including arbitrary arrest and torture and ill-treatment in detention. Saudi judges routinely sentence defendants to thousands of lashes...

http://www.hrw.org/world-report/2013/country-chapters/saudi-arabia
 
maineman said:
Here... in case you lost track...here is the question again: After the fall of Saigon the country went communist. Now explain how US foreign policy was drastically changed because of it.
Click to expand...

Simple. We did not have diplomatic relations with Vietnam again until August 1995.

However, we marched on with the Cold War. So the larger foreign policy did not change much.

In the end, Vietnam represented a battle was lost in the larger Cold War, but ultimately we emerged victorious, causing much gnashing of teeth, rending of hair, and tearing of clothing amongst the liberals.
 
christiefan915 said:
Free? Now I am amused.

Saudi Arabia

Saudi Arabia in 2012 stepped up arrests and trials of peaceful dissidents, and responded with force to demonstrations by citizens. Authorities continue to suppress or fail to protect the rights of 9 million Saudi women and girls and 9 million foreign workers. As in past years, thousands of people have received unfair trials or been subject to arbitrary detention. The year has seen trials against half-a-dozen human rights defenders and several others for their peaceful expression or assembly demanding political and human rights reforms...

Under the discriminatory Saudi guardianship system, girls and women are forbidden from traveling, conducting official business, or undergoing certain medical procedures without permission from their male guardians. In July, after a car chase by religious police left the driver dead and his wife and daughter in critical condition, King Fahd hospital in Baha postponed amputating the wife’s hand because she had no male legal guardian to authorize the procedure, Okaz newspaper reported...

Women remain banned from driving. In November 2011, lawyer Abd al-Rahman al-Lahim sued the traffic department on behalf of Manal al-Sharif, who led a women’s driving protest in May 2011, for gender discrimination after the department refused to issue her a driving license. The case remained pending at this writing...

Over 9 million migrant workers fill manual, clerical, and service jobs, constituting more than half the workforce. Many suffer multiple abuses and labor exploitation, sometimes amounting to slavery-like conditions...

Some 1.5 million migrant domestic workers remain excluded from the 2005 Labor Law. In years past, Asian embassies reported thousands of complaints from domestic workers forced to work 15 to 20 hours a day, seven days a week, and denied their salaries. Domestic workers, most of them women, frequently endure forced confinement, food deprivation, and severe psychological, physical, and sexual abuse...

Detainees, including children, commonly face systematic violations of due process and fair trial rights, including arbitrary arrest and torture and ill-treatment in detention. Saudi judges routinely sentence defendants to thousands of lashes...

http://www.hrw.org/world-report/2013/country-chapters/saudi-arabia
Click to expand...

Saudis are free, Jeebus, this guy does create his own set of facts.

Truth Defector, I say.
 
Damocles said:
Don't think so, the President is a Democrat. You are a democrat.
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come on Damo... give me a break. It's OUR party. We get to call it what we want. DEMOCRATIC is an adjective. DEMOCRAT is a noun. It's the democratic party. Its members are democrats. THe president is a democratic (party) president.
 
christiefan915 said:
Then refute this.

"Saddam Hussein donated hundreds of thousands of dollars to a Detroit church and received a key to the city more than two decades ago, soon after he became president of Iraq.

The events contrast sharply with the attack Saddam's regime is now facing from a U.S.-led coalition, reflecting his changed relationship with the United States since Washington helped Saddam covertly in his 1980-88 war with Iran.

Saddam's bond with Detroit started in 1979, when the Rev. Jacob Yasso of Chaldean Sacred Heart congratulated Saddam on his presidency. In return, Yasso said, his church received $250,000.

"He was very kind person, very generous, very cperative with the West. Lately, what's happened, I don't know," Yasso, 70, said Wednesday. "Money and power changed the person."

Detroit Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick did not immediately return a phone message seeking comment.

Yasso said that at the time, Saddam made donations to Chaldean churches around the world.

"He's very kind to Christians," Yasso said.

Chaldeans are a Catholic group in predominantly Muslim Iraq. Among prominent Chaldeans is Iraq's deputy prime minister, Tariq Aziz.

A year later, Yasso traveled with about two dozen people to Baghdad as a guest of the Iraqi government, and they were invited to Saddam's palace.

"We were received on the red carpet," Yasso said.

Yasso said he presented Saddam with the key to the city, courtesy of then-Mayor Coleman Young. Then, Yasso said, he got a surprise.

"He said, `I heard there was a debt on your church. How much is it?"' Yasso said.

Saddam donated another $200,000.

In the 1980s, Iraq and the United States were allied in their mistrust of Iran, which held hundreds of Americans hostage under the regime of Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini.

Yasso called Saddam an American puppet.

"The job the United States trusted to him is done; now he's no good," he said.

There are tens of thousands of Chaldeans among the roughly 300,000 Americans of Middle Eastern descent in the Detroit area. About 1,200 families attend Sacred Heart, said Yasso, who came to the United States in 1964.

View attachment 2335
Click to expand...

This is a blog post you gullible fool. It's not news; you wont find a credible source for this lie.

Good lord; no wonder you voted for Obama. You prove the low information voter claim.
 
christiefan915 said:
Free? Now I am amused.

Saudi Arabia

Saudi Arabia in 2012 stepped up arrests and trials of peaceful dissidents, and responded with force to demonstrations by citizens. Authorities continue to suppress or fail to protect the rights of 9 million Saudi women and girls and 9 million foreign workers. As in past years, thousands of people have received unfair trials or been subject to arbitrary detention. The year has seen trials against half-a-dozen human rights defenders and several others for their peaceful expression or assembly demanding political and human rights reforms...

Under the discriminatory Saudi guardianship system, girls and women are forbidden from traveling, conducting official business, or undergoing certain medical procedures without permission from their male guardians. In July, after a car chase by religious police left the driver dead and his wife and daughter in critical condition, King Fahd hospital in Baha postponed amputating the wife’s hand because she had no male legal guardian to authorize the procedure, Okaz newspaper reported...

Women remain banned from driving. In November 2011, lawyer Abd al-Rahman al-Lahim sued the traffic department on behalf of Manal al-Sharif, who led a women’s driving protest in May 2011, for gender discrimination after the department refused to issue her a driving license. The case remained pending at this writing...

Over 9 million migrant workers fill manual, clerical, and service jobs, constituting more than half the workforce. Many suffer multiple abuses and labor exploitation, sometimes amounting to slavery-like conditions...

Some 1.5 million migrant domestic workers remain excluded from the 2005 Labor Law. In years past, Asian embassies reported thousands of complaints from domestic workers forced to work 15 to 20 hours a day, seven days a week, and denied their salaries. Domestic workers, most of them women, frequently endure forced confinement, food deprivation, and severe psychological, physical, and sexual abuse...

Detainees, including children, commonly face systematic violations of due process and fair trial rights, including arbitrary arrest and torture and ill-treatment in detention. Saudi judges routinely sentence defendants to thousands of lashes...

http://www.hrw.org/world-report/2013/country-chapters/saudi-arabia
Click to expand...

Yes free; you know, can come and go as you like. Or do you think the Saudi Kingdom has a fence around the country like a Marxist State?

By the way, if you get your information from HRW; you just may be a gullible fool.
 
Rana said:
Saudis are free, Jeebus, this guy does create his own set of facts.

Truth Defector, I say.
Click to expand...

Excuse me; are you trying to say that a Saudi citizen cannot come and go as he pleases? Hell, you don't just create your own set of facts, but your own whacko world bereft of reality or logical reasoning.

I'm amused that someone who wallows in lies claims I am somehow a truth defector. Hell, that isn't as creative as some others I have seen; you lack originality as well as honesty.
 
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