LINCOLN, the CIVIL WAR and SLAVERY

[Judy Johnstone]

Why are Trump supporters pro-Confederate,and anti-American?

 

[Iolo/Penderyn]

Why are Trump supporters pro-Confederate,and anti-American?

They feel deprived of lynching and wonder why no death-camps have been set up yet. Can there be something wrong with their Fuhrer?

 

[Dutch Uncle]

That all changed Jan 1863,with the emancipation proclamation

Intelligent, sane and people who don't use sock puppets know that the Emancipation Proclamation only freed slaves in the CSA, not the USA.

https://www.archives.gov/exhibits/featured-documents/emancipation-proclamation
The proclamation declared "that all persons held as slaves" within the rebellious states "are, and henceforward shall be free."

Despite this expansive wording, the Emancipation Proclamation was limited in many ways. It applied only to states that had seceded from the United States, leaving slavery untouched in the loyal border states. It also expressly exempted parts of the Confederacy (the Southern secessionist states) that had already come under Northern control. Most important, the freedom it promised depended upon Union (United States) military victory.

 

[Judy Johnstone]

Intelligent, sane and people who don't use sock puppets know that the Emancipation Proclamation only freed slaves in the CSA, not the USA.

https://www.archives.gov/exhibits/featured-documents/emancipation-proclamation
The proclamation declared "that all persons held as slaves" within the rebellious states "are, and henceforward shall be free."

Despite this expansive wording, the Emancipation Proclamation was limited in many ways. It applied only to states that had seceded from the United States, leaving slavery untouched in the loyal border states. It also expressly exempted parts of the Confederacy (the Southern secessionist states) that had already come under Northern control. Most important, the freedom it promised depended upon Union (United States) military victory.

There was no CSA,it freed slaves in the USA states in rebellion.

 

[Judy Johnstone]

They feel deprived of lynching and wonder why no death-camps have been set up yet. Can there be something wrong with their Fuhrer?

Their Fuhrer is a nightmare

 

[Dutch Uncle]

There was no CSA,it freed slaves in the USA states in rebellion.

Never trust a fucking scumbag liar or sock puppeteer. They might tell the truth on occasion, but they are very dishonest, deplorable people. Worse are the antisemitics, racists and other haters. Truly people who harm society and would do society a favor by removing themselves from it.

 

[Celticguy]

You can't support a pro-CSA stance without being anti-American. It's the same as being pro-Soviet or pro-Third Reich. One does not need to address a specific pro-CSA argument to truthfully point out that the perspective is anti-American.

We are talking about history here and history is just facts and lies. Eventually the lies just shown for what they are and its just facts.
The Lincoln myth was written basically as it was happening and its only recently that historians are going back and examining evidence from the period and painting a new factual picture. This is pretty normal as the passions of the original writters fades and open eyes start looking at things.

 

[Minister of Truth]

We are talking about history here and history is just facts and lies. Eventually the lies just shown for what they are and its just facts.
The Lincoln myth was written basically as it was happening and its only recently that historians are going back and examining evidence from the period and painting a new factual picture. This is pretty normal as the passions of the original writters fades and open eyes start looking at things.

What myth is that. A Republican won an election and Dems didn't like it. So, they conspired to commit espionage secede from America in hopes of getting him impeached their way.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

 

[Celticguy]

What myth is that. A Republican won an election and Dems didn't like it. So, they conspired to commit espionage secede from America in hopes of getting him impeached their way.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Dont know much about history do you ?

 

[Mason Michaels]

What myth is that. A Republican won an election and Dems didn't like it. So, they conspired to commit espionage secede from America in hopes of getting him impeached their way.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

You forget the Democrats split North and South,so your post is misleading.
Tell the truth

 

[Jerome]

There are some American members of this forum (like "Domer") who still do not understand that Lincoln did not fight the Civil War in order to abolish slavery. Here is an extract from a letter he wrote in 1862 (during the Civil War) to Horace Greely in which he explicitly states that he viewed saving the Union to be a higher priority than ending slavery.


Lincoln writes...


"I would save the Union. I would save it the shortest way under the Constitution. The sooner the national authority can be restored; the nearer the Union will be "the Union as it was." If there be those who would not save the Union unless they could at the same time save slavery, I do not agree with them. If there be those who would not save the Union unless they could at the same time destroy slavery, I do not agree with them. My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave then I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the coloured race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not think it will help save the Union. I shall do less whenever I shall believe what I am doing hurts the cause, and I shall do more whenever I shall believe doing more will help the cause. I shall try to correct errors when shown to be errors; and I shall adopt new views so fast as they shall appear to be true views."


So, there you have it, straight from the pen of "Honest Abe" himself. For Lincoln the conflict was all about saving the Union, NOTHING ELSE. He believed it was imperative that the Union survived to provide an example that free men can rule themselves without a Monarch. Right Domer ?


Dachshund

Correct, Lincoln fought the war to keep the union together.

However, the war started because southern states wanted to preserve slavery. Period.

The Civil War was about slavery. That's not disputed by serious historians. It's only disputed by racist, modern-day confederate apologists. If you sat down with a confederate soldier/representative/general back then, they'd look at you like you're a fucking dumbass if you attempted to argue that the war was about anything OTHER than the right to perpetuate slavery in the South and in the western territories.

 

[Jerome]

Slavery played a role, but it wasn't the cause of the war. If America never had slavery, the war likely still would have happened.

You're a fucking idiot.

Read the articles of secession from those southern states, moron. They'd be only too happy to tell you that their position is wholly identified with slavery.

 

[Jerome]

The North was quite hypocritical, because Northerners also financed & benefited from slavery.

True, but that's not an answer to his question.

 

[BattleofHodow]

Never trust a fucking scumbag liar or sock puppeteer. They might tell the truth on occasion, but they are very dishonest, deplorable people. Worse are the antisemitics, racists and other haters. Truly people who harm society and would do society a favor by removing themselves from it.

So, racism is dishonesty?

I think since everybody's a little racist or more, that those who stand against racism are the dishonest ones.

It's funny that you claim to hate prejudiced haters, but see nothing wrong with prejudiced hate against Polish people, of all people.

You are prime example of someone who can't think logically.

 

[Bill]

So, racism is dishonesty?

I think since everybody's a little racist or more, that those who stand against racism are the dishonest ones.

It's funny that you claim to hate prejudiced haters, but see nothing wrong with prejudiced hate against Polish people, of all people.

You are prime example of someone who can't think logically.

Good to see you added yourself to the mix...

LOL, you poor victim.. Hates on Jews, cries about others doing the same to him/ppl like him..

If the shoe fits wear it..............

 

[Jerome]

We are talking about history here and history is just facts and lies. Eventually the lies just shown for what they are and its just facts.
The Lincoln myth was written basically as it was happening and its only recently that historians are going back and examining evidence from the period and painting a new factual picture. This is pretty normal as the passions of the original writters fades and open eyes start looking at things.

Why are you verbally masturbating with this "Lincoln mythology" bullshit? Yes, everyone knows he was not an enlightened, Jesse-Jackson type figure. He was not a raving abolitionist. Everyone already knew this. We all knew he said he'd preserve slavery to keep the South in the country. We all knew he'd floated the idea of "repatriating" slaves back to Africa. He was a pragmatic politician of his day, and his day included a well-established institution of white supremacy.

NONE of this excuses the treasonous, vile behavior of the Southern states, which weren't satisfied with slavery being allowed in their states by every weak 18th and 19th century president from Washington until Lincoln. They wanted to enforce slavery in territorial states, and enforce the fugitive slave act, which had the effect of imposing their own sovereignty on northern states. The CSA was as vile a government as Hitler's Reich. Lincoln was no saint, but he wasn't Jefferson Davis. He had Frederick Douglass in the White House and he fought tooth and nail to preserve the consequences of the outcome of the war and pass the 13th Amendment. Had he lived, he would have ensured black people kept their 40 acres via the Sherman order in the South, but instead a Southern president took over upon his death and rained terror upon blacks in the South, depriving them of land, leaving them homeless and vulnerable to a murderous white population to do as they pleased. Only Lincoln's favored general, Ulysses S. Grant, enforced federal orders and made sure the South (for a time) honored the spirit of reconstruction.

After that, southern states made it a condition of re-entering the union that they be allowed to terrorize, murder, imprison, and re-enslave blacks.

The South is and was as racist a region in the world as ever there was.

 

[Jerome]

So, racism is dishonesty?

I think since everybody's a little racist or more, that those who stand against racism are the dishonest ones.

It's funny that you claim to hate prejudiced haters, but see nothing wrong with prejudiced hate against Polish people, of all people.

You are prime example of someone who can't think logically.

Seems like you just say this to make yourself feel better.

 

[Celticguy]

Why are you verbally masturbating with this "Lincoln mythology" bullshit? Yes, everyone knows he was not an enlightened, Jesse-Jackson type figure. He was not a raving abolitionist. Everyone already knew this. We all knew he said he'd preserve slavery to keep the South in the country. We all knew he'd floated the idea of "repatriating" slaves back to Africa. He was a pragmatic politician of his day, and his day included a well-established institution of white supremacy.

NONE of this excuses the treasonous, vile behavior of the Southern states, which weren't satisfied with slavery being allowed in their states by every weak 18th and 19th century president from Washington until Lincoln. They wanted to enforce slavery in territorial states, and enforce the fugitive slave act, which had the effect of imposing their own sovereignty on northern states. The CSA was as vile a government as Hitler's Reich. Lincoln was no saint, but he wasn't Jefferson Davis. He had Frederick Douglass in the White House and he fought tooth and nail to preserve the consequences of the outcome of the war and pass the 13th Amendment. Had he lived, he would have ensured black people kept their 40 acres via the Sherman order in the South, but instead a Southern president took over upon his death and rained terror upon blacks in the South, depriving them of land, leaving them homeless and vulnerable to a murderous white population to do as they pleased. Only Lincoln's favored general, Ulysses S. Grant, enforced federal orders and made sure the South (for a time) honored the spirit of reconstruction.

After that, southern states made it a condition of re-entering the union that they be allowed to terrorize, murder, imprison, and re-enslave blacks.

The South is and was as racist a region in the world as ever there was.

Youve never been to Boston i see.

 

[Jerome]

Youve never been to Boston i see.

Where the fuck did I say "racism exists nowhere else on earth"?

I'll wait.

 

[Minister of Truth]

You forget the Democrats split North and South,so your post is misleading.
Tell the truth

George B. McClellan was a great example of a Northern Dem. Another traitor was Gov Clement Vallandigham.