4 kids killed outside Atlanta.

[TOP]

how did you come to that conclusion?

Excellent question

 

[Walt]

The open borders aren't helping things, Yes, we are along the lines of a third world country. It has been going on for years.

But there are not open borders. Europe has real open borders, but the USA does not.

So if open borders are bad, then we would expect Europe to be far worse than the USA.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I guess pigs have flown. Commander Cunt and I agree on something

I'm used to sitting across the table from foreigners and anti-Americans, Joe. Of course there will be some things in which we agreed. We're both human regardless of your personal limitations.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I know this- There was a time and place called the Wild, WIld West. In towns across the West, it became unsafe because of all the shoot-outs in the streets, at every card table, in every saloon, and lots of innocent men, women, children, and even horses were being shot and dying from all of the collateral damage. It was because every man carried, and if you didn't, you had no way to defend yourself when the bullets started firing.

It got so bad, some very brave lawmen started passing No-Carry laws in town. I say brave, because in order to insure the law was being followed, these lawmen would have to challenge men who did not follow the law, and had to disarm them and arrest them. It was a dangerous job just trying to enforce the law. But the towns eventually got cleaned up, they became civilized, and the OLD WEST came to an end.

This was not just in the Movies- THIS IS AMERICAN HISTORY 101!

And now, we are back into the WILD, WILD, WEST- THANKS TO THE OPEN CARRY LAW!

And the looser the law is on guns, the more dangerous it is getting for the rest of us!

WHAT WE NEED IS A NEW SHERIFF IN TOWN- if we are to be a civilized NATION again!

How many shootouts have you been a part of in the US? Me? None.

The fact remains you exemplify the Democratic agenda on this matter: You put banning guns over better mental health care. You don't give a shit about almost 50,000 suicides every year. You only care about banning guns on the dubious belief that banning guns in America will make everyone safe from gun violence...which, according to the gun banners, includes suicides using guns. They don't care about the hangings, the gassings, the poisonings, drugs, etc. Only the suicides using guns. Sad.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I don't believe that the study that uncovered my statistic differentiated between offense and defense. Simply used all self defense shootings by civilians and compared to all shots fired response by law enforcement.

Marines know that it takes a minimum of a 3 to 1 ratio of attack versus defending. The attackers are likely to suffer higher casualties if solely using infantry. Clearly it's more dangerous to be on the offense than the defense without overwhelming force and combined arms....and not so great even then.

The worst place to be is a civilian caught in the crossfire. IMO, in such scenarios, it's best to get the fuck out of Dodge since being in the middle of bullets flying in both directions is not a good survival strategy.

I have no doubt your numbers are accurate, but they are probably distorting the truth on the number of incidents. If there's a 100,000 police incidents and only 10 civilian, then the differences are understandable. Do you have a link to your data?

 

[SmarterthanYou]

Marines know that it takes a minimum of a 3 to 1 ratio of attack versus defending. The attackers are likely to suffer higher casualties if solely using infantry. Clearly it's more dangerous to be on the offense than the defense without overwhelming force and combined arms....and not so great even then.

The worst place to be is a civilian caught in the crossfire. IMO, in such scenarios, it's best to get the fuck out of Dodge since being in the middle of bullets flying in both directions is not a good survival strategy.

I have no doubt your numbers are accurate, but they are probably distorting the truth on the number of incidents. If there's a 100,000 police incidents and only 10 civilian, then the differences are understandable. Do you have a link to your data?

all good points and, yes, for the most part getting the F out of dodge is almost always the best advice.

For civilian self defense uses, i'm going to refer to the CDC study that had been started, then stopped by Obama, because of nearly 250,000 a year........granted, not all of them even required a shot. I'm not sure that there are any clear stats as to how many have shots fired. It doesn't sound like a stat that the government wants out there.

For the 11%/2% stat, all I have is the article name, where it came from, and the authors.......no link. but the website that has been producing these has been around for some time.

Gun Facts | Accidental Gun Deaths and Gun Injuries

Research on rates of accidental death and injuries resulting from firearms. Includes national and international perspectives.

www.gunfacts.info

 

[Dutch Uncle]

You may want to read some history! GUN LAWS ARE AS OLD AS THE OLD WILD WEST!

Gun Control Is as Old as the Old West

Contrary to the popular imagination, bearing arms on the frontier was a heavily regulated business

www.smithsonianmag.com

I'm fine with Big Blue Cities creating more Gun Free Zones. That's where all the shootings happen. LOL

Still, the more Democrats and Republicans chip away at our rights, the less rights We, the People, shall have.

 

[Diesel]

You aren't going to talk them out of it at this point in society's decay. It's generational now. What the fuck is wrong with your logic tree?

It makes zero difference what they are motivated by. You and I both know the answers to this and that nothing is on course to change it for the better in this broken society. So what are we going to do just sit around and hope they will get better while leaving our kids in soft target zones?

You mock the airplane door analogy but it's spot on. Make them safe first, then worry about why some idiot would want to shoot them.

Why is this so hard for your brain to digest? Is it really possible for a human to be this irrational and illogical? No doubt you're voting for the filthy whore and her soy boy.

You are worse than worthless in this conversation. "Things is bad. I dunno why. Cain't get better. Fill our schools with guns." Shut up and let the adults talk.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

all good points and, yes, for the most part getting the F out of dodge is almost always the best advice.

For civilian self defense uses, i'm going to refer to the CDC study that had been started, then stopped by Obama, because of nearly 250,000 a year........granted, not all of them even required a shot. I'm not sure that there are any clear stats as to how many have shots fired. It doesn't sound like a stat that the government wants out there.

For the 11%/2% stat, all I have is the article name, where it came from, and the authors.......no link. but the website that has been producing these has been around for some time.

Gun Facts | Accidental Gun Deaths and Gun Injuries

Research on rates of accidental death and injuries resulting from firearms. Includes national and international perspectives.

www.gunfacts.info

Thanks for the link. Unfortunately, the link to it's data ended up being a dead end due to age(?) It was based on the 1979 paper ; Carol R Silver & Don B. Kates, Jr., Self-Defense, Handgun Ownership, and the Independence of Women in a Violent, Sexist Society, in RESTRICTING HANDGUNS: THE LIBERAL SKEPTICS SPEAK OUT (Don B. Kates, Jr. ed., 1979)

Not that I think they are lying, just that I have questions about how they arrived at their figures. Since it's dated data, can we agree further research in that direction is moot? Still, as the quote below points out, there's a lot of reasons for the 11% vs. 2% difference.

All that aside, you and I can agree that the US benefits from a healthy, educated, lawful and armed citizenry.

Your link.

Gun Facts | Accidental Gun Deaths and Gun Injuries

Research on rates of accidental death and injuries resulting from firearms. Includes national and international perspectives.

www.gunfacts.info

A link the Cramer and Kopel paper (1994)

"Shall Issue": The New Wave of Concealed Handgun Permit Laws

Another study examined newspaper reports of gun incidents in Missouri, involving police or civilians. In this study, civilians were successful in wounding, driving off, capturing criminals 83% of the time, compared with a 68% success rate for the police. Civilians intervening in crime were slightly less likely to be wounded than were police. Only 2% of shootings by civilians, but 11% of shootings by police, involved an innocent person mistakenly thought to be a criminal. [145]

The Missouri research does not prove that civilians are more competent than police in armed confrontations. Civilians can often choose whether or not to intervene in a crime in progress, whereas police officers are required to intervene. Being forced to intervene in all cases, police officers would naturally be expected to have a lower success rate, and to make more mistakes. Attorney Jeffrey Snyder elaborates:

• Rape, robbery, and attempted murder are not typically actions rife with ambiguity or subtlety, requiring special powers of observation and great book-learning to discern. When a man pulls a knife on a woman and says, "You're coming with me," her judgment that a crime is being committed is not likely to be in error. There is little chance that she is going to shoot the wrong person. It is the police, because they are rarely at the scene of the crime when it occurs, who are more likely to find themselves in circumstances where guilt and innocence are not so clear-cut, and in which the probability for mistakes is higher. [146]

In addition, the Missouri study was not restricted to "carry" situations, but also included self-defense in the home. Persons using a gun to defend their own home, who know its layout much better than does an intruder, might be expected to have a higher success rate than would persons using a gun in a less familiar public setting.

 

[Geeko Sportivo]

I'm fine with Big Blue Cities creating more Gun Free Zones. That's where all the shootings happen. LOL

Still, the more Democrats and Republicans chip away at our rights, the less rights We, the People, shall have.

When I went to school, I walked 2 miles uphill barefooted! No! That was my Dad's joke!

But, I feel very fortunate, for the 12 years I spent in Public Schools, that I didn't have one thought of someone coming into my class with a MACHINE GUN and killing us all!

Can you even imagine what all of these children have experienced over the 20 years, that have survived these thousands of public school shootings, and not just the many thousands of children that were maimed physically for life. But, even the ones that were not shot, but witnessed and experienced these shootings- how those kinds of events can cause PTSD and other mental problems. for life.

And how much grieve all of these parents, siblings, and classmates have had to deal with in having to bury them all because of these unnecessary BARBARIC deaths!

And the thousands of Teachers that have been GUNNED DOWNED- Why has their job become one of the most dangerous jobs in America now?

WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT RIGHTS- WHAT ABOUT THE RIGHTS OF ALL THESE PEOPLE I JUST MENTIONED WHO ARE DIRECTLY EFFECTED- PHYSICALLY AND MENTALLY- ALL BY THESE 1,000's of SCHOOL SHOOTINGS?

Do these people have any rights?

Are your rights more important than theirs?

 

[Dutch Uncle]

When I went to school, I walked 2 miles uphill barefooted! No! That was my Dad's joke!

But, I feel very fortunate, for the 12 years I spent in Public Schools, that I didn't have one thought of someone coming into my class with a MACHINE GUN and killing us all!

Can you even imagine what all of these children have experienced over the 20 years, that have survived these thousands of public school shootings, and not just the many thousands of children that were maimed physically for life. But, even the ones that were not shot, but witnessed and experienced these shootings- how those kinds of events can cause PTSD and other mental problems. for life.

And how much grieve all of these parents, siblings, and classmates have had to deal with in having to bury them all because of these unnecessary BARBARIC deaths!

And the thousands of Teachers that have been GUNNED DOWNED- Why has their job become one of the most dangerous jobs in America now?

WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT RIGHTS- WHAT ABOUT THE RIGHTS OF ALL THESE PEOPLE I JUST MENTIONED WHO ARE DIRECTLY EFFECTED- PHYSICALLY AND MENTALLY-ALL BY THESE SCHOOL SHOOTINGS?

Are your rights more important than theirs?

So did I! Uphill both ways...in the snow!

Sounds like you agree they need better mental health care.

Wow! Thousands of teachers were gunned down? How many are shot to death in their classrooms every year?

 

[Geeko Sportivo]

So did I! Uphill both ways...in the snow!

Sounds like you agree they need better mental health care.

Wow! Thousands of teachers were gunned down? How many are shot to death in their classrooms every year?

List of school shootings in the United States (2000–present) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

List of school shootings in the United States by death toll - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I am just going to say- TOO DAMN MANY!

I don't know, but one would have to read through this to do the math!

 

[IBDaMann]

We don't expect a cunt like you to not want children gunned down.

Nope. You and Jarod totally own this one. Leftists insist that all schools be defenselessness zones for the single solitary purpose of ensuring that violent criminals are fully aware that nobody is armed and that as many children are gunned down as possible. You and Jarod probably laughed with glee when you learned that Georgia has some of the strictest truancy laws that can have parents charged with misdemeanors for not sufficiently huddling their children into those defenselessness zones. Your glee, however, was probably tempered by the gunman's incompetence at only killing four children despite the Georgia leftists doing so much to set him up for success.

You and Jarod are sick mother fuckers who HATE humanity and who lust for ever more killing of living humans who have not committed any crime.

@JPP - Apalachee HS was successfully molded into exactly the kind of defenselessness zone that invites mass shootings with open arms. The students who are to be mass murdered are not allowed to be able to defend themselves in any way.

Firearms at School: Students who possess a firearm on campus will be subject to a minimum of a one-calendar
year suspension/expulsion and will be referred to law enforcement officials (JCD). See Explanation of Terms
for an explanation of what is considered a firearm.
Firearm: Firearm is defined by Federal law in Title 18 Section 921 U.S.C. Firearms include but are notlimited to any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted toexpel a projectile by the action of an explosive or any destructive device such as any explosive, incendiary, orpoison gas - bomb, grenade, or rocket.

 

[IBDaMann]

WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT RIGHTS- WHAT ABOUT THE RIGHTS OF ALL THESE PEOPLE I JUST MENTIONED WHO ARE DIRECTLY EFFECTED- PHYSICALLY AND MENTALLY- ALL BY THESE 1,000's of SCHOOL SHOOTINGS?

Why do you encourage mass killings? Why do you prevent law abiding citizens from defending themselves before violent criminals? Why do you insist that children be compulsorily congregated into deflenselessness zones to be most efficiently murdered?

You're a sick fuck.

 

[archives]

It is completely moronic to believe you can keep everyone safe by keeping everyone defenseless.

Well your needing guns to keep us safe argument has been debunked by the facts, America has more guns out there than people and as a result, more shootings, mass shootings, and school shootings. Based on your view we should be the safest nation in the world and the reality is just the opposite

 

[Dutch Uncle]

List of school shootings in the United States (2000–present) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

List of school shootings in the United States by death toll - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I am just going to say- TOO DAMN MANY!

I don't know, but one would have to read through this to do the math!

I only count 15 teachers, not "thousands" as you claimed.

FWIW, it's best to be honest and factual in order to gain the trust of others. How can I discuss reasonable guns laws with a person who lies, exaggerates and will say anything to ban guns?

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Well your needing guns to keep us safe argument has been debunked by the facts, America has more guns out there than people and as a result, more shootings, mass shootings, and school shootings. Based on your view we should be the safest nation in the world and the reality is just the opposite

In @SmarterthanYou 's defense, I think he's more concerned about keeping himself and his family safe, not you per se. Living in rural area where it takes the police up to 30-60 minutes to arrive, I'd rather just handle it myself and tell the police to bring the coroner.

Again, upon examining the shootings, mental health is a major factor, even with gang-bangers. Most shootings involve people who know each other.

Americans Mostly Kill the Ones We Know | Essay | Zócalo Public Square

Turn on your television in the coming months, and you will see and hear just how much Americans fear strangers and guns. Yet when it comes to violent

www.zocalopublicsquare.org

A majority of homicides involve offenders and victims who share a large number of characteristics. The most typical homicide involves a victim and offender who are similar in age, race/ethnicity, gender, and prior involvement in the criminal justice system. They also typically have other background characteristics in common: educational attainment, employment history, and poverty levels. The familiarity that breeds contempt is not an emotional familiarity based on association, but a familiar set of background and experiential characteristics, including involvement in crime, gangs, and urban gun culture.

It is important to note that firearms are involved in about two-thirds of homicides in the U.S. That said, murders between intimates are more likely to involve “hands-on” violence, such as choking, beatings, or violence where the perpetrator physically touches the victim. Guns are more likely to be involved between perpetrators and victims who are strangers, or who know each other only in passing, like rival gang members.

Most homicides also occur within relatively close proximity to the residences of victims and offenders. And most cities have highly concentrated patterns of crime, particularly violent crime and homicide. Criminologists have observed across the past several decades that “crime causes crime,” a hypothesis that works at two levels: the individual and the neighborhood.

 

[SmarterthanYou]

Thanks for the link. Unfortunately, the link to it's data ended up being a dead end due to age(?) It was based on the 1979 paper ; Carol R Silver & Don B. Kates, Jr., Self-Defense, Handgun Ownership, and the Independence of Women in a Violent, Sexist Society, in RESTRICTING HANDGUNS: THE LIBERAL SKEPTICS SPEAK OUT (Don B. Kates, Jr. ed., 1979)

Not that I think they are lying, just that I have questions about how they arrived at their figures. Since it's dated data, can we agree further research in that direction is moot? Still, as the quote below points out, there's a lot of reasons for the 11% vs. 2% difference.

All that aside, you and I can agree that the US benefits from a healthy, educated, lawful and armed citizenry.

100%. I wish there was newer data. maybe they are conducting it.

 

[SmarterthanYou]

Well your needing guns to keep us safe argument has been debunked by the facts, America has more guns out there than people and as a result, more shootings, mass shootings, and school shootings. Based on your view we should be the safest nation in the world and the reality is just the opposite

I ask again, when government or very wealthy feel threatened, they increase the number of guns around them? why should we not follow that example?

 

[Nordberg]

How many shootouts have you been a part of in the US? Me? None.

The fact remains you exemplify the Democratic agenda on this matter: You put banning guns over better mental health care. You don't give a shit about almost 50,000 suicides every year. You only care about banning guns on the dubious belief that banning guns in America will make everyone safe from gun violence...which, according to the gun banners, includes suicides using guns. They don't care about the hangings, the gassings, the poisonings, drugs, etc. Only the suicides using guns. Sad.

A half a million kids were in schools that had shootings. They will not be so cavalier about gun violence. They will not blindly follow the NRA and gun manufacturers.