Abortion: wrong or just sort of wrong?

Sun Devil said:
living in what sense?

A red blood cell is living, but it doesn't mean it's sentient. A sperm cell is a living organism, doesn't mean it's sentient. A zygote is a living organism, but it is not sentient. So alas my argument stands.

A zygote is a potential human, it is not human. A zygote does not possess the characteristics of an infant, it possess the potentiality to become an infant. Try again!
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incorrect. Sentience does not determine species. Genetically the zygote is human. It remains human from fertilization until death.
 
Thing1 said:
An acorn isn't a tree; a zygote isn't a human being.

I understand the anti-abortion argument much more as the zygote develops, and particularly late-term. But at the zygote stage, there is just a clump of cells. I don't know how anyone can use words like "killing" or "murder"...it's just the zealots.
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Incorrect. A zygote is indeed a unique human life.

Calling it a 'clump of cells' is simply a means to dehumanize it. We are all just clumps of cells. As adults we simply have more of them. We are fully developed. But at no point are we anything other than human.
 
maineman said:
Interesting how everybody on here who want to tell women what they can or cannot do regarding a process going on inside their bodies are men.
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Lets see... we have three liberal women that post here (Rana, Darla, Christie) and one bat shit crazy sociopath (desh). imagine that... liberal women supporting dehumanizing an unborn child to justify killing it. Shocking.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
in the summer of 2006 liberals claimed there were 150,000 civilians killed in the Iraq war......at that point in time the war had been going on for 36 months......using your 122,000 deaths instead, divided by 36 you come up with 3,389 deaths per month......yet even Al Jazeera claimed that the highest number of deaths in any month of the war was under 1,500......my question remains.....where were the other 2000 bodies each month?.....why did no one notice them lying around?......
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The table below summarizes various estimates of the Iraqi casualty figures. Iraq Body Count numbers are on the low end compared to the others. I don't know where you got your info but this American/Al-Jazeera article is taking the figures from the PLOS Medicine Survey. And this Al-Jazeera article quotes the same figures I posted below.

The custom for Muslims is to bury within 24 hours if possible. Your comment about bodies lying around is just snark.

Iraq Body Count project 112,667–123,284 civilian deaths from violence. 174,000 civilian and combatant deaths[1][2][3][4] March 2003 to March 2013

Iraq Family Health Survey 151,000 violent deaths March 2003 to June 2006

Lancet survey 601,027 violent deaths out of 654,965 excess deaths March 2003 to June 2006

Opinion Research Business Survey 1,033,000 deaths as a result of the conflict (Widely rejected as credible) March 2003 to August 2007

PLOS Medicine Survey[5] Approximately 500,000 deaths in Iraq as direct or indirect result of the war. March 2003 to June, 2011

Classified Iraq War Logs[1][6][7][8] 109,032 deaths including 66,081 civilian deaths.[9][10] January 2004 to December 2009
 
Thing1 said:
That just takes "reach" to a whole new level....
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Not really. It shows that the term 'person' has been a subjective term. Used to mean whatever those who defined it wanted it to mean. It has been used to dehumanize groups many times in the past. Blacks, jews, unborn... same thing. Attempts by those that wish to kill to dehumanize a group so they can feel better when they kill said group.
 
Superfreak said:
Incorrect. A zygote is indeed a unique human life.

Calling it a 'clump of cells' is simply a means to dehumanize it. We are all just clumps of cells. As adults we simply have more of them. We are fully developed. But at no point are we anything other than human.
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Sorry, but it IS a clump of cells. To call it anything else is mythologizing it.

It's a unique blueprint for life, just as DNA is (and how will you feel about a skin cell once we start cloning?) But sorry - no sentience, no cognizance, no viability, no brain....I'm not "dehumanizing" anything. You're dehumanizing women by saying they are sentenced to carry a fetus to term as soon as they're impregnated.
 
Superfreak said:
Not really. It shows that the term 'person' has been a subjective term. Used to mean whatever those who defined it wanted it to mean. It has been used to dehumanize groups many times in the past. Blacks, jews, unborn... same thing. Attempts by those that wish to kill to dehumanize a group so they can feel better when they kill said group.
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SF as much as I respect you, you're wrong
 
christiefan915 said:
The table below summarizes various estimates of the Iraqi casualty figures. Iraq Body Count numbers are on the low end compared to the others. I don't know where you got your info but this American/Al-Jazeera article is taking the figures from the PLOS Medicine Survey. And this Al-Jazeera article quotes the same figures I posted below.

The custom for Muslims is to bury within 24 hours if possible. Your comment about bodies lying around is just snark.

Iraq Body Count project 112,667–123,284 civilian deaths from violence. 174,000 civilian and combatant deaths[1][2][3][4] March 2003 to March 2013

Iraq Family Health Survey 151,000 violent deaths March 2003 to June 2006

Lancet survey 601,027 violent deaths out of 654,965 excess deaths March 2003 to June 2006

Opinion Research Business Survey 1,033,000 deaths as a result of the conflict (Widely rejected as credible) March 2003 to August 2007

PLOS Medicine Survey[5] Approximately 500,000 deaths in Iraq as direct or indirect result of the war. March 2003 to June, 2011

Classified Iraq War Logs[1][6][7][8] 109,032 deaths including 66,081 civilian deaths.[9][10] January 2004 to December 2009
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you're doing nothing except demonstrating that your math sucks even worse than I noted previously.......each lie is more absurd than the last......for the Lancet survey to be true there would have had to been over 15,400 deaths a month......

and on top of that, if you review the Iraq Body Count logs you will find that over 90% of the victims died from bombings by terrorists, not by the actions of coalition military forces.......

I don't know where you got your info
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back during the war Al Jazeera used to publish a monthly body count of civilians......typically the numbers were in the 300-600 range.....during extremely bad months of terrorist bombings in it would top a thousand.....usually they ran about 10% higher than Iraq Body Count's numbers.....

nobody that was keeping track of casualties claimed numbers over 2500 and certainly not 15k......
 
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Sun Devil said:
My ancestors were the ones that spurred civilization
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that doesn't change the fact that slave owners justified their actions by denying they were humans........the same argument being used about our unborn children today......both claims are obviously untrue, given what we know of science today.......
 
PostmodernProphet said:
you're doing nothing except demonstrating that your math sucks even worse than I noted previously.......each lie is more absurd than the last......for the Lancet survey to be true there would have had to been over 15,400 deaths a month......

and on top of that, if you review the Iraq Body Count logs you will find that over 90% of the victims died from bombings by terrorists, not by the actions of coalition military forces.......



back during the war Al Jazeera used to publish a monthly body count of civilians......typically the numbers were in the 300-600 range.....during extremely bad months of terrorist bombings in it would top a thousand.....usually they ran about 10% higher than Iraq Body Count's numbers.....

nobody that was keeping track of casualties claimed numbers over 2500 and certainly not 15k......
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Bombings by terrorists - hmmmm...I wonder what opened the door for those?

Fool. Apologist fool.
 
Superfreak said:
a fertilized egg has the complete genetic mapping of a unique human life. Like any other stage of development, at no point is the life not human. It is simply the start of development.

A sperm cell does not.
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When I jerk off and ejaculate I emit genetic life from my body nobody gives a shit that I kill millions of living cells
 
PostmodernProphet said:
that doesn't change the fact that slave owners justified their actions by denying they were humans........the same argument being used about our unborn children today......both claims are obviously untrue, given what we know of science today.......
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The amazing thing is that the majority of baby killing mills like planned parenthood are located in predominantly black neighborhoods. I wonder if Sun Devil has a signed poster of Kermit Gosnell in his bedroom. Apparently sun devil likes that his "people" are being exterminated by the left
 
Sun Devil said:
When I jerk off and ejaculate I emit genetic life from my body nobody gives a shit that I kill millions of living cells
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Those cells aren't a human being. Just like I don't give a shit if you cut your hair or get a pedicure.

Once your demon seed combines with an ovum to form a human being the game changes

It is amazing the knots you lefties twist yourself into to dehumanize an unborn baby. Much the same way your ancestors were dehumanized to justify slavery. Ironic isn't it?
 
Teflon Don said:
Those cells aren't a human being. Just like I don't give a shit if you cut your hair or get a pedicure.

Once your demon seed combines with an ovum to form a human being the game changes

It is amazing the knots you lefties twist yourself into to dehumanize an unborn baby. Much the same way your ancestors were dehumanized to justify slavery. Ironic isn't it?
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Well Mr. Teflon just like I would imagine you post ignorant logic. This whole discussion much like those who are pro-life would argue that all living cells, organisms etc are "living" in the sense that it's a living being (sentience). My argument is thus that anything from a human whether it is a red blood cell or a sperm cell its also living. A zygote is not a human being. A zygote doesn't have a brain, arms, legs, or an ability to reason or feel pain. It's a cluster of cells. Therefore I would not call a zygote a person because it doesn't possess the characteristics of a full formed human being but please continue with your dumbass logic.
 
Teflon Don said:
The amazing thing is that the majority of baby killing mills like planned parenthood are located in predominantly black neighborhoods. I wonder if Sun Devil has a signed poster of Kermit Gosnell in his bedroom. Apparently sun devil likes that his "people" are being exterminated by the left
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Your racism is too comical. But I can expect that from people that think like you. It's a sad life living as a coward because we all know you don't share these views in public.
 
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