America is headed for another civil war

[gfm7175]

The notion that an zygote, embryo, or fetus is a human being...and that a human being is being killed in an abortion, is an absurdity.

No, it is not. This is the moment where I ask any condoner of abortion two specific questions that they cannot answer in a rational manner without ultimately admitting that a human life is present:

[1] What species is the zygote, if not human?
[2] How does the zygote, from the moment of fertilization/conception, continue through all other developmental stages of human life (until death occurs) if there is no life present?

You people use that bullshit

Science is not bullshit.

in order to justify that you want to control women...to dictate to them what they can and cannot do concerning their own bodies.

A child's body is not the mother's body.

And not at all... The only controlling of women that is going on stems from liberals. It is liberals who wish to force women (men too!) to undergo COVID injections in order to retain their jobs. You do realize that reversing Roe v Wade does not ban abortion, right??

I realize that Democrats seem to think that everything must either be mandated or banned, but that's not the way that things have to be. Reversing Roe v Wade is simply returning power back to the individual States, where it SHOULD be. Each State (and the people therein) can make law as they see fit.

No one is telling the dictatorship of California that they MUST ban abortion. They are still free to condone it, even after the reversal of Roe v Wade. Nothing has changed for them. However, there are other States (such as Wisconsin) which do not wish to condone abortion. Democrats want to force the people of Wisconsin to condone abortion rather than allow them the freedom to choose for themselves. Ergo, it is LIBERALS who wish to shove their moral/religious beliefs down the throats of others, not conservatives.

Again, conservatives are NOT shoving their beliefs down the throats of liberals. California is free to condone abortion if they so choose (nobody is forcing them to ban abortion). Rather, it is liberals who wish to shove THEIR beliefs down the throats of everyone else (they wish to force Wisconsin, Texas, Alabama, Mississippi, Wyoming, Idaho, etc etc etc) to condone abortion rather than allowing them the freedom to ban it.

Even with those States banning abortion, anyone within those States who doesn't like certain laws within those States has the freedom to move to other States that more closely align with their own political/moral views. If you live in Wisconsin and hate the fact that they consider abortion to be a felony offense, then you are always free to move into Illinois or some other State (or even the oligarchy of New York or the dictatorship of California) that condones abortion.

Yeah, some people use the "religious" excuse as justification, but that, by its very nature, is even more absurd.

Still attempting to justify murder, eh?

So learn to deal with it. Pregnancy is a unique situation...and it DOES NOT CALL FOR MEN OR GOVERNMENTS BEING ABLE TO DICTATE TO A PREGNANT WOMAN WHAT SHE CAN AND CANNOT DO WITH HER OWN BODY.

It is not her own body, dude... It is the child's body that is being killed for the sake of another living human's convenience.


You are failing at identity, acting as if a child's body is somehow the mother's body and acting as if the species of the child (at least in the early developmental stages of human life) is something other than human (but then somehow transforms into being a human during later developmental stages??).

You are failing at reason, acting as if a child in the early developmental stages of human life is somehow able to advance through all the developmental stages of human life (until that human eventually dies) yet that child is somehow doing so while being dead.

You are failing to educate yourself, acting as if the SCOTUS reversal of Roe v Wade is "banning abortion everywhere" when it is really just returning control of it back to the individual States where such control belongs. I realize that liberals like yourself wish to universally mandate across the nation everything that you like and universally ban across the nation everything that you do not like, but there IS a third option called FREEDOM. There IS a third option of individual States being able to do as they each see fit. You live in Wisconsin and love abortion?? Well, you are free to move your ass down to Illinois where they (well, Chicago, anyway) condone such behavior.

 

[archives]

Interesting how some on the right make a moral argument against abortion, then conclude just leave it up to the States, so what is immoral is acceptable as long as it happens in other parts of the country. Not a whole lot of consistency there

 

[Ross Dolan]

No, it is not. This is the moment where I ask any condoner of abortion two specific questions that they cannot answer in a rational manner without ultimately admitting that a human life is present:

[1] What species is the zygote, if not human?
[2] How does the zygote, from the moment of fertilization/conception, continue through all other developmental stages of human life (until death occurs) if there is no life present?

First let me tell you that I hate replying to you, because you are a major asshole. BUT...

[1] What species is the zygote, if not human?

A zygote is a zygote.

A chicken egg is a zygote...not a fucking chicken.

A zygote in the body of a human female is a ZYGORE...which is why they call it a zygote. A human is something entirely different.

[2] How does the zygote, from the moment of fertilization/conception, continue through all other developmental stages of human life (until death occurs) if there is no life present?

Slowly...and deliberately.

You can get all that information from Google.

But until the human zygote becomes a blastocyst, it remains a zygote...NOT A HUMAN BEING. By the way, until a human blastocyst becomes a fetus, it remains a blastocyst...NOT A HUMAN BEING. And, until the fetus becomes a human being (lots of controversy on when that occurs)...it remains a fetus...AND NOT A HUMAN BEING.

Science is not bullshit.

Correct. And what I said above would be accepted by most scientists.

Anyway...that's enough. I really cannot stand to read any more of your bullshit. You are definitely not worth the trouble.

Last thought...a pregnancy is a unique situation...and the decision to carry a pregnancy to term or to terminate it for any reason, is the person in whose body the pregnancy is occurring.

 

[zymurgy]

progressive assholes only have themselves to blame here. 15 weeks to choose was a fair compromise, but nope.

they refused to be realistic or pragmatic, and now have to lie in the bed of shit they made for themselves

I seriously got into a Facebook debate with a she devil that feels she even has the right to abort a baby if blood tests show it is a boy and she wanted girl, or it has blue eyes and she wanted brown eyes. her body her choice - and she can scream into the face of to the gender that was once conscripted into military service as human meat shields that she has this right and nothing society can do to stop her

 

[Ross Dolan]

progressive assholes only have themselves to blame here. 15 weeks to choose was a fair compromise, but nope.

they refused to be realistic or pragmatic, and now have to lie in the bed of shit they made for themselves

I seriously got into a Facebook debate with a she devil that feels she even has the right to abort a baby if blood tests show it is a boy and she wanted girl, or it has blue eyes and she wanted brown eyes. her body her choice - and she can scream into the face of to the gender that was once conscripted into military service as human meat shields that she has this right and nothing society can do to stop her

Yeah, there are assholes like that person you supposedly debated.

Those of us who debate American conservatives run into that problem often.

 

[zymurgy]

Yeah, there are assholes like that person you supposedly debated.

Those of us who debate American conservatives run into that problem often.

gender based abortions are a big problems in some countries in the world - and technology is only making this easier and easier. we can now use a blood test at 7 weeks to tell the parents of these things.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

From an article by Zoe Strimpel
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...nother-civil-war-where-one-side-has-vanquish/


I, like so many millions of other women in the once-liberal West, felt profound relief that I was born in an era and a place where women have the right to choose. We took for granted that we could have children when ready and only then, without terror of life-changing consequences if a mistake was made. But any sense that living in “the West” offers a guarantee of this right died last Friday when the US Supreme Court, once the leader of the free world, overturned Roe vs Wade as unconstitutional, ending federal protection of the right to abortion.

This rare reversal of constitutional rights is first and foremost a despicable assault on women. But it is also a world-historical cataclysm, the biggest sign yet that America could be about to implode. It’s all happening quickly. The freshly emboldened Justice Clarence Thomas has already asked the Supreme Court to reconsider rulings that protect contraception. Enslaved to its constitution, and ever-madder readings of that 233 year old list of rules, it’s hard not to conclude that America is no longer fit for purpose.

Trump trod on all sorts of norms as president, finally overseeing the storming of the Capitol in an attempt to delegitimise Biden’s win. The paranoid Trumpian right still believes the voting system has been corrupted by Left-wing ideology, while Democrats are now questioning the legitimacy of the Supreme Court itself. There is no middle ground, since each side now thinks it has to beat its opponent comprehensively.

The horrible irony is that the Left used to staunchly defend women’s rights and particularly abortion rights; now they won’t even refer to “women”, preferring “pregnancy-capable people”. The Right wanted Roe overturned; the Left let them get away with it, and for this they deserve as much if not more blame for betraying women. Trump got into power in part because hard Left types let him, voting for joke candidates over Hilary Clinton because she wasn’t woke enough for them. Women have been sacrificed on the bonfire of woke.

The only silver lining is that American political alliances may now be redrawn. Abortion is a universal issue that goes far beyond right and left, so sensible people on the right may be forced to ally with the woke left. This could force the latter to rediscover common sense. If they do, they might actually be able to bring this nightmare to an end, but by then it may be too late.


Zoe Strimpel is a conservative commentator to the Telegraph who grew up in America and now lives in Britain. She blames the ‘woke’ left for pursuing chimeras instead of concentrating on the real threats to liberty and progress coming from the hard right. Is there anything in this, or is she just making excuses?

The RW approves. They want to destroy the Federal government and both the Democratic and Republican parties are doing their best to divide the country.

https://www.lewrockwell.com/2020/12/thierry-meyssan/civil-war-becomes-inevitable-in-the-usa/

The problem is no longer who was legitimately elected President of the United States, but how long can the civil war be postponed? Far from being a fight between a narcissistic TV presenter and a senile old man, the country is being torn apart over a fundamental cultural issue that has been smouldering since its inception.

Here we are: the disaster that has been predictable for the past 30 years is looming. The United States is heading inexorably toward secession and civil war.

Since the demise of the USSR, the “American Empire” no longer had an existential enemy and therefore no reason to exist. The attempt by George H. Bush (the father) and Bill Clinton to give the country a new life with the globalization of trade has destroyed the middle classes in the USA and in almost all of the West. The attempt of George W. Bush (son) and Barack Obama to organize the world around a new form of capitalism – financial this time – has been bogged down in the sands of Syria.

It is too late to turn the tide. Donald Trump’s attempt to abandon the American Empire and refocus the country’s efforts on its domestic prosperity has been sabotaged by the elites acquired to the puritanical ideology of the “Pilgrim Fathers”. As a result, the moment so feared by Richard Nixon and his election adviser Kevin Philipps has arrived: the United States is on the brink of secession and civil war.
Break It Up: Secession... Kreitner, Richard Best Price: $20.11 Buy New $18.72 (as of 04:28 EDT - Details)

What I am writing is not a fantasy, but the analysis of many observers in the United States and around the world. For example, the Wisconsin Supreme Court has just declared Donald Trump’s election fraud appeal inadmissible, not on legal grounds, but because “it would open Pandora’s box.

In fact, contrary to the misrepresentation of events that dominates the international press, either the outgoing president’s appeals are judged in law and he is obviously right, or they are judged in politics and proving him right will provoke civil war. But the conflict is already too far advanced. Judging him politically in defiance of the law will also provoke civil war.

 

[Ross Dolan]

gender based abortions are a big problems in some countries in the world - and technology is only making this easier and easier. we can now use a blood test at 7 weeks to tell the parents of these things.

Do you think it is a major problem here in America?

Because the laws we are discussing do not impact on people in other countries...just ours.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Yeah, there are assholes like that person you supposedly debated.

Those of us who debate American conservatives run into that problem often.

FWIW, I don't trust a single thing the sock says.

 

[zymurgy]

Do you think it is a major problem here in America?

Because the laws we are discussing do not impact on people in other countries...just ours.

not to the extent we see it happening elsewhere - but it is starting to show up in statistical analysis

https://ifstudies.org/blog/has-the-global-war-against-baby-girls-come-to-america

 

[gfm7175]

Interesting how some on the right

Interesting how some on the left don't have the balls to quote the person on the right who they are responding to...

make a moral argument against abortion, then conclude just leave it up to the States,

I suggest that you learn some history about the USA, its constitution, and what a federated republic is and how it works (and what makes it so great compared to other worldly government systems).

so what is immoral is acceptable as long as it happens in other parts of the country. Not a whole lot of consistency there

There you go again! I have never said any such thing.

Why should I, as a citizen of Wisconsin, get to tell Illinois what to do? -- While I abhor what Illinois is doing with regard to abortion, I don't have the right to force them to do differently. It is a matter for their own people to decide.

 

[Ross Dolan]

not to the extent we see it happening elsewhere - but it is starting to show up in statistical analysis

https://ifstudies.org/blog/has-the-global-war-against-baby-girls-come-to-america

It is such a minor element in the overall discussion right now...as to be meaningless, Zymurgy. I will acknowledge that it is an element that bothers the hell out of me as much as it does anti-abortion advocates.

 

[zymurgy]

It is such a minor element in the overall discussion right now...as to be meaningless, Zymurgy. I will acknowledge that it is an element that bothers the hell out of me as much as it does anti-abortion advocates.

lack of compromise is the point. The vast majority of residents of Louisiana wanted a 15 week rule - and were told to go to hell. lack of compromise opened up the flood gates to where you can now get raped and be forced to carry. If woke assholes were willing to compromise, this would not of happened.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

lack of compromise is the point. The vast majority of residents of Louisiana wanted a 15 week rule - and were told to go to hell. lack of compromise opened up the flood gates to where you can now get raped and be forced to carry. If woke assholes were willing to compromise, this would not of happened.

Translation: It's all the "woke assholes" fault. Always.

You're a lame fucking moron to never accept personal or party accountability and only blaming the opposition.

You're no better than any one seeking to strip Americans of their unalienable rights, dipshit.

 

[Ross Dolan]

lack of compromise is the point. The vast majority of residents of Louisiana wanted a 15 week rule - and were told to go to hell. lack of compromise opened up the flood gates to where you can now get raped and be forced to carry. If woke assholes were willing to compromise, this would not of happened.

That is not much of an argument, Z. If anti-choice assholes were willing to compromise, this would not have happened either. If McConnell had allowed Barack Obama his rightful chance to appoint a Supreme Court justice...it might not have happened. If McConnell had not rushed through a third nomination for Trump...it might not have happened.

Bottom line...your side has the power to dictate what can and cannot be done on a huge variety of things...and I expect they will wield that power in unimaginably damaging ways. But...elections do have consequences.

 

[zymurgy]

That is not much of an argument, Z. If anti-choice assholes were willing to compromise, this would not have happened either. If McConnell had allowed Barack Obama his rightful chance to appoint a Supreme Court justice...it might not have happened. If McConnell had not rushed through a third nomination for Trump...it might not have happened.

Bottom line...your side has the power to dictate what can and cannot be done on a huge variety of things...and I expect they will wield that power in unimaginably damaging ways. But...elections do have consequences.

I just gave one issue where Roe was a problem. it prevents us from even stopping an evil person from aborting because of eye color or gender - those reasons were allowed - as a fetus was no different than detassling a stalk of corn in the eyes of the law.

 

[gfm7175]

First let me tell you that I hate replying to you, because you are a major asshole. BUT...

A zygote is a zygote.

Indeed, however different species exist. Humans are not chickens.

A chicken egg is a zygote...

No, it is not. A chicken egg is not a zygote.

not a fucking chicken.

Correct... a chicken egg is not a chicken either, not even a fucking chicken. It is a chicken egg.

A zygote in the body of a human female is a ZYGORE...

Correct, it is a zygote, and the species of the zygote is human. The zygote will continue striving to advance through all the other developmental stages of human life as well, hence a separate human life is present inside of the human female.

which is why they call it a zygote. A human is something entirely different.

No. Human is a particular species, and zygote is a particular stage of life of certain species (human being one of those species). A human is not a chicken.

Slowly...and deliberately.

How can this be, if the zygote is dead?

You can get all that information from Google.

I am not talking to Google. I am talking to you.

But until the human zygote becomes a blastocyst, it remains a zygote...NOT A HUMAN BEING.

Human is a particular species; zygote is a particular developmental stage. -- A human zygote is a human, just as a human adolescent is a human.

By the way, until a human blastocyst becomes a fetus, it remains a blastocyst...NOT A HUMAN BEING. And, until the fetus becomes a human being (lots of controversy on when that occurs)...it remains a fetus...AND NOT A HUMAN BEING.

Human is a particular species; zygote, embryo, and fetus are all developmental stages of life (in this case, human life).

Correct.

Then why are you acting as if it is bullshit?

And what I said above would be accepted by most scientists.

You don't get to speak for a large group of unspecified scientists. -- Unspecified scientists are not science.

Anyway...that's enough. I really cannot stand to read any more of your bullshit. You are definitely not worth the trouble.

Personal attacks do not make my arguments go away, dude. You must address the arguments themselves.

Last thought...a pregnancy is a unique situation...and the decision to carry a pregnancy to term or to terminate it for any reason, is the person in whose body the pregnancy is occurring.

There is responsibility that comes along with choosing to partake in an act that can result in pregnancy. There is no right to murder.

 

[Ross Dolan]

I just gave one issue where Roe was a problem. it prevents us from even stopping an evil person from aborting because of eye color or gender - those reasons were allowed - as a fetus was no different than detassling a stalk of corn in the eyes of the law.

So you are suggesting we (pardon this) throw out the baby with the bath water?

So because a few people each year abort because of gender (or eye color, in yours example)...we should throw out the entirety of a right that has existed for 60 years?

That makes no sense.

Yes, there are reasons given for abortions that seem VERY frivolous...BUT a woman with a pregnancy occurring in her own body should have the right to terminate that pregnancy if she chooses for whatever reasons she wants.

 

[Ross Dolan]

Indeed, however different species exist. Humans are not chickens.


No, it is not. A chicken egg is not a zygote.


Correct... a chicken egg is not a chicken either, not even a fucking chicken. It is a chicken egg.


Correct, it is a zygote, and the species of the zygote is human. The zygote will continue striving to advance through all the other developmental stages of human life as well, hence a separate human life is present inside of the human female.


No. Human is a particular species, and zygote is a particular stage of life of certain species (human being one of those species). A human is not a chicken.


How can this be, if the zygote is dead?


I am not talking to Google. I am talking to you.


Human is a particular species; zygote is a particular developmental stage. -- A human zygote is a human, just as a human adolescent is a human.


Human is a particular species; zygote, embryo, and fetus are all developmental stages of life (in this case, human life).


Then why are you acting as if it is bullshit?


You don't get to speak for a large group of unspecified scientists. -- Unspecified scientists are not science.


Personal attacks do not make my arguments go away, dude. You must address the arguments themselves.


There is responsibility that comes along with choosing to partake in an act that can result in pregnancy. There is no right to murder.

A chicken egg is a zygote, Asshole.

I cannot even stand to read your diatribes...let alone actually respond to them. It takes some effort on my part to do so.

If you have a single item you want to discuss...present that single item and we can discuss it. I may not be able to eat comfortably tonight, but I will do it. Pick out the single most important item you suppose you are making with this word salad of yours...and we will discuss it. Either we resolve it...or we decide we must agree to disagree.

 

[zymurgy]

So you are suggesting we (pardon this) throw out the baby with the bath water?

stripping citizens in a geographic region the ability to decide for themselves is the baby in your analogy? I think you are confused - that is the poopy water we need to drain, so the baby can again get clean.