APP - Economy: who is to blame?

1. What exactly did bush do that "ruined" the ecomony? The same types of things every administration since Cleveland have been doing.

2. What exactly is obama doing differently that is helping the economy? The same types of things every administration since Cleveland have been doing.

3. What exactly has or is obama doing that has or could ruin the economy?
The same types of things every administration since Cleveland have been doing.

4. How long can obama blame bush? As long as the mindless drones are willing to listen.


If we could convince politicians (and others) to expend as much energy fixing a problem as they expend trying to lay blame for a problem, the world would be a much better place.
Truer words have seldom been spoken.

Though, to be fair, sometimes finding the fault is part of fixing a problem. Of course, there is a big difference between finding the fault, and playing the finger pointing blame game. Politicians far prefer the latter to the former, because the former all to often leads to unpopular answers.

The fact is both parties share fully and equally in the economic crises of today. Both parties have been complicit in building an economy based on deficit spending - and I am not speaking of the government, but of society as a whole. It has been an ongoing process for almost a full century, whose roots lie in the acceptance of the idea that people should not have to wait and save to attain the "better things in life" as the saying goes.

It started with the idea that people should be able to buy a home using long term credit rather than saving most of their lives in the hopes (sometimes unrealized hopes) they can eventually buy a home with cash. It's not a bad idea on the surface, and had the idea stayed with home ownership, and also stayed with modest means, there would be no problem today. But the idea spread from home ownership to the auto industry, then to revolving credit which is used to purchase everything from TVs to groceries to a night on the town.

How long can an economy sustain itself when it is based on people purchasing things before they can afford them? Without help, not very long. That is why we can go back over the years and see the government repeatedly making adjustments to the banking/credit industry - because eventually credit runs out, the debt burden becomes greater than the people can make up for, and either the house comes tumbling down, or the government, via the federal reserve, pushes credit spending into larger and larger arenas, to include (and THIS is why the system failed) people who had no real hope from the very start of paying off the debt they were encouraged to build.

Now, let's couple that with what the people themselves were doing - and still are. As a society, we are a bunch of wasteful, greedy, pathetically neurotic, keep-up-with-the-joneses materialists. Why does a family of 4 need a 5 bedroom, 4 bath, 4,500 square foot house? They do not, but that is what people were buying and defaulting on. Why do they need 3 cars, including that nice big SUV used primarily by a single adult for commuting? They don't, but that is what they were buying with bank loans made under the blessing (and sometimes mandate) of government to keep the economy expanding. TVs for every room, computers for every family member, $600 cell phones, $100 steak dinners, $80 blue jeans, etc. etc. etc.; all purchased on credit cards, piling up debt - but as long as people were buying those things, we called it a good economy.

We've had several warning signs that we have not been in a stable, sustainable economy. We have recession after recession as the debt burden reached saturation, then the government has to step in with either new regulations mandating "more fair" lending practices (ie: forcing credit companies to lend to lower and lower income strata), coupled with ridiculous measures and relaxed banking regulations to allow banks and credit companies to make the required loans without going immediately bankrupt. We had the S&L crisis, but learned nothing from it because the causes were swept under a rug of blame and finger pointing. We had the stock market crash of 1987, and learned nothing. Now we have the 2008 crash, and the 2008 banking crisis, the auto industry crisis, all rolled into one major clusterfuck, yet by all signs and portents, we STILL are refusing to learn anything.
 
1. What exactly did bush do that "ruined" the ecomony? The same types of things every administration since Cleveland have been doing.

2. What exactly is obama doing differently that is helping the economy? The same types of things every administration since Cleveland have been doing.

3. What exactly has or is obama doing that has or could ruin the economy?
The same types of things every administration since Cleveland have been doing.

4. How long can obama blame bush? As long as the mindless drones are willing to listen.



Truer words have seldom been spoken.

Though, to be fair, sometimes finding the fault is part of fixing a problem. Of course, there is a big difference between finding the fault, and playing the finger pointing blame game. Politicians far prefer the latter to the former, because the former all to often leads to unpopular answers.

The fact is both parties share fully and equally in the economic crises of today. Both parties have been complicit in building an economy based on deficit spending - and I am not speaking of the government, but of society as a whole. It has been an ongoing process for almost a full century, whose roots lie in the acceptance of the idea that people should not have to wait and save to attain the "better things in life" as the saying goes.

It started with the idea that people should be able to buy a home using long term credit rather than saving most of their lives in the hopes (sometimes unrealized hopes) they can eventually buy a home with cash. It's not a bad idea on the surface, and had the idea stayed with home ownership, and also stayed with modest means, there would be no problem today. But the idea spread from home ownership to the auto industry, then to revolving credit which is used to purchase everything from TVs to groceries to a night on the town.

How long can an economy sustain itself when it is based on people purchasing things before they can afford them? Without help, not very long. That is why we can go back over the years and see the government repeatedly making adjustments to the banking/credit industry - because eventually credit runs out, the debt burden becomes greater than the people can make up for, and either the house comes tumbling down, or the government, via the federal reserve, pushes credit spending into larger and larger arenas, to include (and THIS is why the system failed) people who had no real hope from the very start of paying off the debt they were encouraged to build.

Now, let's couple that with what the people themselves were doing - and still are. As a society, we are a bunch of wasteful, greedy, pathetically neurotic, keep-up-with-the-joneses materialists. Why does a family of 4 need a 5 bedroom, 4 bath, 4,500 square foot house? They do not, but that is what people were buying and defaulting on. Why do they need 3 cars, including that nice big SUV used primarily by a single adult for commuting? They don't, but that is what they were buying with bank loans made under the blessing (and sometimes mandate) of government to keep the economy expanding. TVs for every room, computers for every family member, $600 cell phones, $100 steak dinners, $80 blue jeans, etc. etc. etc.; all purchased on credit cards, piling up debt - but as long as people were buying those things, we called it a good economy.

We've had several warning signs that we have not been in a stable, sustainable economy. We have recession after recession as the debt burden reached saturation, then the government has to step in with either new regulations mandating "more fair" lending practices (ie: forcing credit companies to lend to lower and lower income strata), coupled with ridiculous measures and relaxed banking regulations to allow banks and credit companies to make the required loans without going immediately bankrupt. We had the S&L crisis, but learned nothing from it because the causes were swept under a rug of blame and finger pointing. We had the stock market crash of 1987, and learned nothing. Now we have the 2008 crash, and the 2008 banking crisis, the auto industry crisis, all rolled into one major clusterfuck, yet by all signs and portents, we STILL are refusing to learn anything.

:blah: :blah:
 
Mr Obama inherited at cluster fuck!
Is this your explanation of how his mother got pregnant with him?

Stick with posting only comics Kenneth. Just as we all suspected, when you try to put your own words down, your IQ is exposed to be approximately equal to your age.
 
No. Everything you find if you want to actually research the community investment act will tell you that it had only a MINOR contribution to the whole subprime issue. Just read the wiki article about it.
Oh wow wiki- so that's where you get your economic education. 'Spalins a lot there, boy. *shrug*
 
Oh wow wiki- so that's where you get your economic education. 'Spalins a lot there, boy. *shrug*

Read anything you trust about it as long as it's reputable. CRA didn't cause this recession. You have to be really fucking retarded to think it did, considering the fact that only a relatively small percentage of foreclosed homes were bought with loans made because of the CRA.
 
Read anything you trust about it as long as it's reputable. CRA didn't cause this recession. You have to be really fucking retarded to think it did, considering the fact that only a relatively small percentage of foreclosed homes were bought with loans made because of the CRA.
You do realize that anyone can edit wikipedia, don't you?
 
Though Democrats are by no means blameless it was Republican deregulatory policies, combined with an endemic lack of support for regulatory agencies enforcement and a certain level of being asleep at the wheel that allowed the housing bubble and it's derivative related banking fiasco that were the cause of the present recession.

I'm sorry Mott, but when you can go on you tube and listen to the House hearings on whether or not Freddy and Fanny should be reined in and you hear the Dems shouting about racism and arguing that there was NOTHING going on at the Macs, when you can hear it with your own ears you simply cannot honestly say the problem here was a lack of regulation on Republican's part.....
 
Obama as of yesterday is still blaming bush for the economy. A few questions come to mind....

1. What exactly did bush do that "ruined" the ecomony?

2. What exactly is obama doing differently that is helping the economy?

3. What exactly has or is obama doing that has or could ruin the economy?

4. How long can obama blame bush?

it would be nice to see specific examples, as we all know, the dems held majority in the legislature for the first two years and the last two years of bush's term.

Bush wrecked the economy and the after effects from his asinine policies are still with us today!

AuthFeb2008.gif
 
It amazes me on how little of the blame for our current problems that individuals will accept.
Personal responsibility Bleah!
 
Read anything you trust about it as long as it's reputable. CRA didn't cause this recession. You have to be really fucking retarded to think it did, considering the fact that only a relatively small percentage of foreclosed homes were bought with loans made because of the CRA.

just as i predicted....the level of ib1's debate....

you're retarded and i'm a winner so stfu
 
I'm sorry Mott, but when you can go on you tube and listen to the House hearings on whether or not Freddy and Fanny should be reined in and you hear the Dems shouting about racism and arguing that there was NOTHING going on at the Macs, when you can hear it with your own ears you simply cannot honestly say the problem here was a lack of regulation on Republican's part.....




Yes, one can honestly say there was a lack of regulation in that direction on the GOP's part. The proof is that no bills governing that subject came to the floor for a vote during their attempt at governing.
From 1994 to 2006 the Republicans controlled Congress, from 2001 until 2009 they also held the Presidency. Frank and others could, yes, be wrong, even on You Tube, but the fact is the Minority makes no decisions upon which bills come to the floor of Congress. Can you refer to any bills brought to the floor of either house during period of time? Rules of both the House and Senate give absolute control to the Speaker, Senate Majority Leader and committee chairmen regarding the progress of bills to the floor. It is the reason that, now, your guys hate Pelosi and Reid, simple proof.There is no 60% rule in committees.
The President(bush) campaigned on an issue called the "Ownership Society", his 2005 State of the Union speech and subsequent speeches included references to the policy which he endorsed. Perhaps you can explain the "Ownership Society" policy.
That said and on topic, the GOP left their period of government control with what was the worst economy since the Great Depression, that is history it can't be changed(honestly). Now the GOP rails about evil government. "Physician, heal thyself."
Since Reagan, the Middle Class working man has made few economic gains and suffered from the effects of several recessions, I think aimed at moderating any gains to them. Check your economic calendar. In that period of time, Laffer "Supply Side" and GOP deregulation policies were in effect. Can you tell me the ongoing effect of Supply Side economics and its benefit to the Middle Class working man as opposed to gains made by the wealthy and large corporations? What has been the benefit of deregulation aside from greater theft and increased lobbying? bush was the latest of Supply Side presidents. Next we can discuss the benefit of NAFTA, negotiated by bushI and signed by Clinton, further to be expanded by bushII. Where have all the jobs gone? The fact is that with the GOP, the rising tide has not raised all ships, nor do they plan it to be that way.
 
From 1994 to 2006 the Republicans controlled Congress, from 2001 until 2009 they also held the Presidency.

which means that between 2001 and 2006 they controlled both, though you must admit with only a 50/50 split in the Senate for much of it....are you saying that when the hearing were held on whether to hold the Macs accountable for what was going on....the hearings where the Dems were lambasting the Republicans for a racial witchhunt for even suggesting that something bad was happening, that the Republicans had enough votes to take action without Dems?......
 
which means that between 2001 and 2006 they controlled both, though you must admit with only a 50/50 split in the Senate for much of it....are you saying that when the hearing were held on whether to hold the Macs accountable for what was going on....the hearings where the Dems were lambasting the Republicans for a racial witchhunt for even suggesting that something bad was happening, that the Republicans had enough votes to take action without Dems?......

I am saying, and I mean it for both parties, that regardless of whether they have the votes to pass, with CONVICTION, the majority party can and should bring any bill to the floor about which they feel strongly. It's only a case of whether they have the guts to show where each party stands on principle and policy. In the case being discussed, the party in power didn't have the gonads to bring a bill to the floor regulating either the Macs OR the high flyiing low-grade mortgage industry. There is no divine law saying that every bill brought to the floor must pass, but they do show voters the differences between them. The pressing question is why was no bill presented, politics, policy, or lobby pressure?
 
Yes, one can honestly say there was a lack of regulation in that direction on the GOP's part. The proof is that no bills governing that subject came to the floor for a vote during their attempt at governing.
From 1994 to 2006 the Republicans controlled Congress, from 2001 until 2009 they also held the Presidency. Frank and others could, yes, be wrong, even on You Tube, but the fact is the Minority makes no decisions upon which bills come to the floor of Congress. Can you refer to any bills brought to the floor of either house during period of time? Rules of both the House and Senate give absolute control to the Speaker, Senate Majority Leader and committee chairmen regarding the progress of bills to the floor. It is the reason that, now, your guys hate Pelosi and Reid, simple proof.There is no 60% rule in committees.
The President(bush) campaigned on an issue called the "Ownership Society", his 2005 State of the Union speech and subsequent speeches included references to the policy which he endorsed. Perhaps you can explain the "Ownership Society" policy.
That said and on topic, the GOP left their period of government control with what was the worst economy since the Great Depression, that is history it can't be changed(honestly). Now the GOP rails about evil government. "Physician, heal thyself."
Since Reagan, the Middle Class working man has made few economic gains and suffered from the effects of several recessions, I think aimed at moderating any gains to them. Check your economic calendar. In that period of time, Laffer "Supply Side" and GOP deregulation policies were in effect. Can you tell me the ongoing effect of Supply Side economics and its benefit to the Middle Class working man as opposed to gains made by the wealthy and large corporations? What has been the benefit of deregulation aside from greater theft and increased lobbying? bush was the latest of Supply Side presidents. Next we can discuss the benefit of NAFTA, negotiated by bushI and signed by Clinton, further to be expanded by bushII. Where have all the jobs gone? The fact is that with the GOP, the rising tide has not raised all ships, nor do they plan it to be that way.

I agree, it isn't just Bush it's 30 yrs of failed conservative ideology that's gotten us into this mess.
 
I am saying, and I mean it for both parties, that regardless of whether they have the votes to pass, with CONVICTION, the majority party can and should bring any bill to the floor about which they feel strongly. It's only a case of whether they have the guts to show where each party stands on principle and policy. In the case being discussed, the party in power didn't have the gonads to bring a bill to the floor regulating either the Macs OR the high flyiing low-grade mortgage industry. There is no divine law saying that every bill brought to the floor must pass, but they do show voters the differences between them. The pressing question is why was no bill presented, politics, policy, or lobby pressure?

I thought the pressing question was why the Dems refuse to acknowledge responsibility?......have you heard a Dem say anything except "inherited Bush's problems" since January?......
 
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