Calif is on fire again~the new normal-what needs to be done to prevent this??

[Celticguy]

You can blame humans for the forests being too dense so that too many the trees stay small and burn rather than survive fire driving up the heat thus killing ever larger trees as they burn too.....driving up the heat yet again.

This is at heart a management failure.

Tree huggers way back when stopped clearing under growth which is what you are likely referring to. Huge mistake as it only upped the tinder.
They learned that lesson the hard way but then underfunded this important land management.
But worse still they let people build where they knew fire was going to come (or mudslides on the coast).
Nobody says no to development. Big problem.

 

[Hawkeye10]

Tree huggers way back when stopped clearing under growth which is what you are likely referring to. Huge mistake as it only upped the tinder.
They learned that lesson the hard way but then underfunded this important land management.
But worse still they let people build where they knew fire was going to come (or mudslides on the coast).
Nobody says no to development. Big problem.

It is not just the undergrowth....there are too many fucking trees.....we need to cut down trees if the forests are going to get healthy again.

Part of the problem is that we have not been logging for a long time, so there are no forests roads in a lot of places, they would need to be built before we could even start, which would be a hugely expensive project.

 

[Nordberg]

Nope. Trump is not responsible for CNN fiction.

Not responsible for what Woodward got in tape either, is he? You are such a mindless suckup.

 

[Bill]

Tree huggers way back when stopped clearing under growth which is what you are likely referring to. Huge mistake as it only upped the tinder.
They learned that lesson the hard way but then underfunded this important land management.
But worse still they let people build where they knew fire was going to come (or mudslides on the coast).
Nobody says no to development. Big problem.

That is pretty much it IMHO........

 

[Bill]

It is not just the undergrowth....there are too many fucking trees.....we need to cut down trees if the forests are going to get healthy again.

Part of the problem is that we have not been logging for a long time, so there are no forests roads in a lot of places, they would need to be built before we could even start, which would be a hugely expensive project.

That is correct IMHO as well

They have not been logging in many places but there are still roads out there, but many in disrepair as well.... That is part of the deal........ If you go & cut, you will not be on them for several years & will need to repair them..........

They have begun some clearing but it is very limited & much of the wood(from the over crowding) is not feasible/marketable & is just pilled up to age for burning in a few years......

They also do limited "controlled burns" which help but are very limited & not often well controlled as they have not always guessed well beyond 5 days as to conditions/wind......

 

[Hawkeye10]

That is correct IMHO as well

They have not been logging in many places but there are still roads out there, but many in disrepair as well.... That is part of the deal........ If you go & cut, you will not be on them for several years & will need to repair them..........

They have begun some clearing but it is very limited & much of the wood(from the over crowding) is not feasible/marketable & is just pilled up to age for burning in a few years......

They also do limited "controlled burns" which help but are very limited & not often well controlled as they have not always guessed well beyond 5 days as to conditions/wind......

I was once reading that some environmental groups said "Fine, so long as it is done by helicopter we wont object to thinning of the forest" to which the obvious response was "Do you have even the first fucking clue how much that would cost?".

The answer was of course "No".

 

[Bill]

I was once reading that some environmental groups said "Fine, so long as it is done by helicopter we wont object to thinning of the forest" to which the obvious response was "Do you have even the first fucking clue how much that would cost?".

The answer was of course "No".

Yes, that would be nuts.... Controlled burn & limited logging is where I believe it is headed........

 

[Hawkeye10]

Yes, that would be nuts.... Controlled burn & limited logging is where I believe it is headed........

Problems with burns:

1) Fires get hot fast...expensive plus liability problems if a fire gets away

2) CO2 released

3) expensive legal fees due to challenges, plus schedules get wonky because judges run things and they dont generally give a fuck adding more cost.

4) It is increasingly impossible to get permission to do a burn when people are crying about the wild animals and short term damage to watersheds

5) Citizens do not like either burn scars or smoke, and they will be encourage to blame the ones who did it.

 

[Bill]

Problems with burns:

1) Fires get hot fast...expensive plus liability problems if a fire gets away

2) CO2 released

3) expensive legal fees due to challenges, plus schedules get wonky because judges run things and they dont generally give a fuck adding more cost.

4) It is increasingly impossible to get permission to do a burn when people are crying about the wild animals and short term damage to watersheds

5) Citizens do not like either burn scars or smoke, and they will be encourage to blame the ones who did it.

The forestry dept does it all the time.. WHere do you live??

& some times they do get out of hand, oh well..............

 

[Hawkeye10]

The forestry dept does it all the time.. WHere do you live??

& some times they do get out of hand, oh well..............

I am not making this up:

But even as fires have ravaged California in recent years — killing dozens and leveling entire neighborhoods — controlled burns haven’t expanded much, researchers said.

To understand what’s stopped prescribed burns, the researchers interviewed legislative aides, state and federal employees, nonprofit leaders, academics and more.

https://www.sacbee.com/news/california/article239475468.html

 

[Bill]

I am not making this up:


https://www.sacbee.com/news/california/article239475468.html

Yes, I know this, I live in the SactO area........

I mentioned specifically the forestry dept-that is not even mentioned in your article from the Bee......

 

[Into the Night]

Problems with burns:

1) Fires get hot fast...expensive plus liability problems if a fire gets away

Quite true.

2) CO2 released

CO2 is not a problem. It is a naturally occurring gas. It has no capability to warm the Earth.

3) expensive legal fees due to challenges, plus schedules get wonky because judges run things and they dont generally give a fuck adding more cost.

Judges don't have the authority either...but it IS the SOTC.

4) It is increasingly impossible to get permission to do a burn when people are crying about the wild animals and short term damage to watersheds

True.

5) Citizens do not like either burn scars or smoke, and they will be encourage to blame the ones who did it.

True.

However, you are missing an important detail here. Burning forests is a waste of resources.

Log them.

 

[Hawkeye10]

Quite true.

CO2 is not a problem. It is a naturally occurring gas. It has no capability to warm the Earth.

Judges don't have the authority either...but it IS the SOTC.

True.

True.

However, you are missing an important detail here. Burning forests is a waste of resources.

Log them.

What needs to be done is thinning and cleaning out the underbrush, but that would take a forest army. Instead we are going to let them continue to burn. What I do not know is what kind of quality we are going to have after the burns, these are very hot fires, even after say 30 years are they going to grow back in anything close to being a real forest on their own? There wont be any help, almost all of the maintenance budgets are gone now, plowed into firefighting, what little is left goes into fire prevention...preventive burns mostly.

The forests of the West are a testament to the failure of the American political class to get the work done, they have long rather fuck around and play childish political games. This has very little to do with global warming though the left will claim otherwise forever because by doing so they both push their agenda and push away the blame they have earned for bad quality work.

 

[leaningright]

“What needs to be done to prevent this?”

Ban gender reveal parties? Ban gender reveal party favors? It’s the state that bans...I’m sure they’ll find that something to needs to be banned.

 

[leaningright]

I saw some debate about control burns as I read through this thread. They do help, along with select cut logging. I live next to Corps of engineer land ... over 35,000 acres. They control burn every year at certain times of the year when it can be more safely done. It works and I’m a proponent of it.

 

[leaningright]

Hello Bill,

Mind boggling:

How can anybody look at California today and still deny climate change?

I do not deny climate change. The weather and climate are most definitely different than when I was younger. I am skeptical as to how much we contribute to it.

I also know that people have been leaving here and going there to help fight fire all of my life. One of the men at church is 93 and he has so many stories of flying in to California and Oregon to fight fire.



https://wildfiretoday.com/2019/05/1...ope-changing-the-way-emergencies-are-managed/

 

[cawacko]

I do not deny climate change. The weather and climate are most definitely different than when I was younger. I am skeptical as to how much we contribute to it.

I also know that people have been leaving here and going there to help fight fire all of my life. One of the men at church is 93 and he has so many stories of flying in to California and Oregon to fight fire.



https://wildfiretoday.com/2019/05/1...ope-changing-the-way-emergencies-are-managed/

I'm seeing it all over social media in the Bay Area and the state about climate change. And getting into the weeds regarding local politics there's a big YIMBY movement (YES In My Backyard) regarding housing among certain progressives which states we need to build more housing and we need to build more dense housing in urban areas near public transportation to prevent continued suburban sprawl and reliance on automobiles. However the NIMBY movement here is STRONG. Now the YIMBY movement has come out firing (no pun intended) at the NIMBY's over these fires and climate change. Here's a great example.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1304111478778159104

 

[Bill]

I'm seeing it all over social media in the Bay Area and the state about climate change. And getting into the weeds regarding local politics there's a big YIMBY movement (YES In My Backyard) regarding housing among certain progressives which states we need to build more housing and we need to build more dense housing in urban areas near public transportation to prevent continued suburban sprawl and reliance on automobiles. However the NIMBY movement here is STRONG. Now the YIMBY movement has come out firing (no pun intended) at the NIMBY's over these fires and climate change. Here's a great example.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1304111478778159104

I watched part of the gov speech on tv yesterday, & not willingly....

I was pretty disappointed when he had three other guys talk about the fire situations, in a smoldering (some place some where) & sounded just like trumpkins in their praise of him & the great job he is doing-it was embarrassing but I doubt anyone else was watching it.......

Honestly I listened to nothing he had to say prior to them talking as I was on the phone but I did catch gavins line, something to the effect of "don't tell me there is no climate change"..........

That kinda pissed me off as he is simply trying to blame it on that, rather than the shitty job the state/fed/counties aka gubment has done "managing" the forests in this country.......

If there was or was not climate change would having 10 times more trees & bush out there than is sustainable going to fuckin blow up one day sooner or later??

This aint BC, Canada, we have a dry season 9 months or longer most years & you add to many trees, hot dry conditions, NATURALLY OCCURRING dry lightening is gonna do what nature has done for ever-burn shit down!!!

If by global warming they mean humans stopping the natural occurring cycle of burn & renewal, then yea, but I don't think that is what he meant......

 

[cawacko]

I watched part of the gov speech on tv yesterday, & not willingly....

I was pretty disappointed when he had three other guys talk about the fire situations, in a smoldering (some place some where) & sounded just like trumpkins in their praise of him & the great job he is doing-it was embarrassing but I doubt anyone else was watching it.......

Honestly I listened to nothing he had to say prior to them talking as I was on the phone but I did catch gavins line, something to the effect of "don't tell me there is no climate change"..........

That kinda pissed me off as he is simply trying to blame it on that, rather than the shitty job the state/fed/counties aka gubment has done "managing" the forests in this country.......

If there was or was not climate change would having 10 times more trees & bush out there than is sustainable going to fuckin blow up one day sooner or later??

This aint BC, Canada, we have a dry season 9 months or longer most years & you add to many trees, hot dry conditions, NATURALLY OCCURRING dry lightening is gonna do what nature has done for ever-burn shit down!!!

If by global warming they mean humans stopping the natural occurring cycle of burn & renewal, then yea, but I don't think that is what he meant......

It’s interesting you say that man because there are local progressives I follow on Twitter going off on Newsom yesterday as well. Yes climate change is real but that doesn’t excuse us (California) from everything else we aren’t doing just like you mentioned.

 

[Hawkeye10]

It’s interesting you say that man because there are local progressives I follow on Twitter going off on Newsom yesterday as well. Yes climate change is real but that doesn’t excuse us (California) from everything else we aren’t doing just like you mentioned.

Heather said today that according to current models humans are responsible for 30-50% of the increase in drought in the West. Keep in mind that the fires are not burning like they are only because of drought....poor management of the forests is responsible for a lot of it, in my opinion probably most of the problem between lack of maintenance and that the forests have the wrong trees and too many trees because humans put them there during the 1930's and early 40's.

19:07