CAPITAL PUNISHMENT

[domer76]

Nothing weak about it. Name two people who have been executed...who have murdered again after being executed.

And if you cannot name two...name just one.



I didn't miss that at all. What on Earth makes you think I did???




The fact that it is not good for business (because people like you would attempt boycotts)...IS mentioned. The reason I MENTIONED IT is because you naively suggested drug companies were refusing to supply drugs for executions because "they get it"...like YOU "get it." That was a laughable suggestion. I was merely pointing out that if they could help their bottom dollar by selling such drugs...and by developing them...THEY WOULD DO IT IN A NEW YORK SECOND.

And you know that.

Execution can be made humane by the use of reasonable drugs that can do the job without pain. It already does...as anyone who has ever had to put a pet "to sleep" can testify.

So stop the bullshit.

You oppose capital punishment...and are willing to allow slow, unending torture in prison instead.

Okay...that is your right.

Takes all kinds!

Name two people? C’mon Frank, try being a grownup on this. You’re avoiding the errors in our justice system and I can see why. It’s uncomfortable to think about executing innocent people.

Drug companies won’t touch it because it’s bad for business. To be associated with the death penalty is just that. THEY GET IT, pal.

Stop the bullshit yourself, Frank. You project yourself into a “slow, unending tortute” and think it applies to everyone.

 

[domer76]

Well...if people like you have to keep mentioning that some people may disagree with me...as if you are saying something I have not already mentioned...

...I think it incumbent upon me to say it again.

No need for me to be defensive. I'm just having a discussion where I recognize there are two sides with decent arguments...although there are some involved in the discussion who are too thick-headed to realize that.

No problem.

You just mentioned the “slow unending torture” in your last post , Frank. You made my point.

 

[Fentoine Lum]

The Washington state Supreme Court on Thursday unanimously struck down the death penalty there as unconstitutional.**

The final order decreed that any death sentences currently in force in the state be converted to life in prison.

This is conceived by many as a move toward a greater respect for life…and as an adjustment that removes what they see as “cruel and unusual punishment.”

There seems to be majority opinion that “life in prison without the possibility of parole” is less cruel and unusual.

I suppose some people can actually think that…but I consider it nuts to the point of bat-shit crazy.

Putting any human in a cage for the remainder of his/her life with no hope of being released…no matter what that person has supposedly done to deserve it…is FAR from “less cruel” than simply ending that person’s life.

I cannot imagine any sane person wanting to be caged for the remainder of his/her life…rather than finally being put out of his/her misery by a relatively peaceful death.

If the people arguing for the end to capital punishment want to be authentic and consistent…they ought also to be arguing for a maximum sentence for ANY crime of no more than ten years confinement.

A far better move, in my opinion, would be to stop arguing for the end to capital punishment…and instead arguing for easier access to more efficient drugs to carry out humane executions.

I imagine one or two people here may disagree.

Okay…let’s hear from you.






**Reported in several newspapers including:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...id=hp_no-name_hp-in-the-news:page/in-the-news

Long overdue, is that 20 states now? America loves its human sacrifice.

 

[domer76]

Well...if the "deterrence" being sought is to have a particular killer not kill again...I SUGGEST IT IS A VERY EFFECTIVE DETERRENT.



Okay.

If you are suggesting that occasionally innocent people die in this world...you won't get an argument from me.




Errors happen.

Whatever the error rate is...it is too high for me...and I hope for everyone.

What is your fucking point, Domer?

You oppose capital punishment...I oppose life in prison without the possibility of parole.

I think you are championing something I consider absolutely inhumane.

You seem to think I am championing something you consider inhumane.'

So???

It’s obvious you haven’t done much homework on the issue, Frank. You may suggest it’s a deterrent, but that doesn’t make it true. It’s not.

It’s also obvious that you’re willing to sacrifice innocent people. I am not. How many would that be, Frank?

My fucking point is clear, Frank. You’re merely to stubborn to try to understand it. Errors happen in criminal proceedings all the time. Especially for poorer, less well-represented people. You’re willing to sacrifice them. You consider executing innocent people humane. I do not.

 

[Ross Dolan]

Name two people? C’mon Frank, try being a grownup on this. You’re avoiding the errors in our justice system and I can see why. It’s uncomfortable to think about executing innocent people.

Drug companies won’t touch it because it’s bad for business. To be associated with the death penalty is just that. THEY GET IT, pal.

Stop the bullshit yourself, Frank. You project yourself into a “slow, unending tortute” and think it applies to everyone.

Okay...if it is necessary for you to lie to yourself about this, Domer...go for it.

Life in prison without a chance of parole...IS MORE INHUMANE than a humanely delivered execution. If people like you cannot see it...so be it. If you are in the majority...you win.

As I said...drug companies don't "get it" in the way you are supposing YOU "get it."

They are concerned with their bottom line. If supplying the drugs added profit...they'd do it in a second. If it would hurt their bottom line...they would avoid it like the plague. It is NOT a moral imperative...which is what it apparently is for you.

In my opinion, ANYONE who advocates for "life in prison without the possibility of parole" as an alternative to capital punishment is advocating for lifelong torture...whether he/she can acknowledge that or not.

 

[Ross Dolan]

You just mentioned the “slow unending torture” in your last post , Frank. You made my point.

Life in prison with no hope of parole...

IS SLOW, UNENDING TORTURE, Domer.

If it is difficult for you to acknowledge that...so be it.

 

[Ross Dolan]

It’s obvious you haven’t done much homework on the issue, Frank. You may suggest it’s a deterrent, but that doesn’t make it true. It’s not.

IF THE DETERRENCE IS STOPPING A KILLER FROM KILLING AGAIN...IT SURE AS HELL IS, BECAUSE YOU ARE UNABLE TO NAME ANYONE WHO HAS EVER KILLED AGAIN AFTER BEING EXECUTED.

If it deterrence to killing? NO! It does not deter that.

Is live in prison without the possibility of parole a deterrence to killing? NO! It does not deter that.

Stop with your phony bullshit.

It’s also obvious that you’re willing to sacrifice innocent people. I am not. How many would that be, Frank?

If you are asking me if innocent people are going to die on planet Earth this year and next...

...my answer is: YES!

In any case, if you want to feel you are being morally superior to me by subjecting murderers to a lifetime of torture in prison with no hope of getting away from it...

...okay with me.

There are lots of monsters on this planet.

My fucking point is clear, Frank. You’re merely to stubborn to try to understand it. Errors happen in criminal proceedings all the time. Especially for poorer, less well-represented people. You’re willing to sacrifice them. You consider executing innocent people humane. I do not.

You, on the other hand are willing to have people suffer the torture of being in a cell for the rest of their lives because you are too squeamish to take their lives for what they have done.

As I said...no problem.

There are others here who agree...and want the torture to be even greater.

I understand.

 

[Teflon Don]

Well...if the "deterrence" being sought is to have a particular killer not kill again...I SUGGEST IT IS A VERY EFFECTIVE DETERRENT.



Okay.

If you are suggesting that occasionally innocent people die in this world...you won't get an argument from me.




Errors happen.

Whatever the error rate is...it is too high for me...and I hope for everyone.

What is your fucking point, Domer?

You oppose capital punishment...I oppose life in prison without the possibility of parole.

I think you are championing something I consider absolutely inhumane.

You seem to think I am championing something you consider inhumane.'

So???

Looks like we finally have an area of agreement Frankie

Kill em dead

 

[domer76]

Okay...if it is necessary for you to lie to yourself about this, Domer...go for it.

Life in prison without a chance of parole...IS MORE INHUMANE than a humanely delivered execution. If people like you cannot see it...so be it. If you are in the majority...you win.

As I said...drug companies don't "get it" in the way you are supposing YOU "get it."

They are concerned with their bottom line. If supplying the drugs added profit...they'd do it in a second. If it would hurt their bottom line...they would avoid it like the plague. It is NOT a moral imperative...which is what it apparently is for you.

In my opinion, ANYONE who advocates for "life in prison without the possibility of parole" as an alternative to capital punishment is advocating for lifelong torture...whether he/she can acknowledge that or not.

lol

Frankie, quit inserting yourself into what all people consider humane. You’re starting to embarrass yourself. You don’t want to be called on that, yet you continue that absurd mantra.

 

[domer76]

Life in prison with no hope of parole...

IS SLOW, UNENDING TORTURE, Domer.

If it is difficult for you to acknowledge that...so be it.

Because it’s true for you, Frankie, doesn’t make it true for everyone. How many times does that have to be pointed out?

 

[domer76]

IF THE DETERRENCE IS STOPPING A KILLER FROM KILLING AGAIN...IT SURE AS HELL IS, BECAUSE YOU ARE UNABLE TO NAME ANYONE WHO HAS EVER KILLED AGAIN AFTER BEING EXECUTED.

If it deterrence to killing? NO! It does not deter that.

Is live in prison without the possibility of parole a deterrence to killing? NO! It does not deter that.

Stop with your phony bullshit.



If you are asking me if innocent people are going to die on planet Earth this year and next...

...my answer is: YES!

In any case, if you want to feel you are being morally superior to me by subjecting murderers to a lifetime of torture in prison with no hope of getting away from it...

...okay with me.

There are lots of monsters on this planet.




You, on the other hand are willing to have people suffer the torture of being in a cell for the rest of their lives because you are too squeamish to take their lives for what they have done.

As I said...no problem.

There are others here who agree...and want the torture to be even greater.

I understand.

I get it, Frank. You are willing to execute innocent people. That’s a despicable position to take.

What percentage is acceptable to you, Frank? 10%? 5%? 1%?

 

[Ross Dolan]

Looks like we finally have an area of agreement Frankie

Kill em dead

Yup.

 

[Ross Dolan]

lol

Frankie, quit inserting yourself into what all people consider humane. You’re starting to embarrass yourself. You don’t want to be called on that, yet you continue that absurd mantra.

Anyone who considers life in prison without the chance of parole as more humane than simply executing the individual...

...is insane.

I understand you cannot see that.

But that is the nature of insanity.

Anyone who sees advocating for life in prison without the chance of parole as MORAL IN ANY WAY...

...does not understand morality.

 

[Ross Dolan]

Because it’s true for you, Frankie, doesn’t make it true for everyone. How many times does that have to be pointed out?

Not sure how often this has to be pointed out to you, Domer...but I will continue for as long as you refuse to get it.

Anyone who considers life in prison without the chance of parole as more humane than simply executing the individual...

...is insane.

I understand you cannot see that.

But that is the nature of insanity.

Anyone who sees advocating for life in prison without the chance of parole as MORAL IN ANY WAY...

...does not understand morality.

 

[Ross Dolan]

I get it, Frank. You are willing to execute innocent people. That’s a despicable position to take.

What percentage is acceptable to you, Frank? 10%? 5%? 1%?

What you do not get, Domer...is that putting a person in prison for the rest of his life without any hope of getting out...is so immoral and inhumane...that, yeah, the chance of innocent people dying is worth the cost of executing rather than torturing.

We allow people to drive cars...even though we KNOW that innocent people will die as a result. The innocent life is a price that must be borne in order to be reasonable.

Get it...don't get it.

Okay with me.

I'll keep reminding you.

 

[domer76]

Anyone who considers life in prison without the chance of parole as more humane than simply executing the individual...

...is insane.

I understand you cannot see that.

But that is the nature of insanity.

Anyone who sees advocating for life in prison without the chance of parole as MORAL IN ANY WAY...

...does not understand morality.

Looks like you’re in favor of executing 4 innocent people out of 100, Frankie.


https://jennypandrews.com/2014/05/02/what-is-the-error-rate-of-the-criminal-justice-system/

On April 28th, a study was published in the prestigious Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences concluding that the error rate in death penalty cases is 4.1% (“The Rate of False Conviction of Criminal Defendants Who are Sentenced to Death” published 4/28/14). Samuel Gross, one author of the study, explained the significance of this number: “Since 1973, nearly 8,500 defendants have been sentenced to death in the United States, and 138 of them have been exonerated. Our study means that more than 200 additional innocent defendants have been sentenced to death in that period.” Many innocent people remain on death row.

 

[Ross Dolan]

Looks like you’re in favor of executing 4 innocent people out of 100, Frankie.


https://jennypandrews.com/2014/05/02/what-is-the-error-rate-of-the-criminal-justice-system/

On April 28th, a study was published in the prestigious Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences concluding that the error rate in death penalty cases is 4.1% (“The Rate of False Conviction of Criminal Defendants Who are Sentenced to Death” published 4/28/14). Samuel Gross, one author of the study, explained the significance of this number: “Since 1973, nearly 8,500 defendants have been sentenced to death in the United States, and 138 of them have been exonerated. Our study means that more than 200 additional innocent defendants have been sentenced to death in that period.” Many innocent people remain on death row.

If you want to continue to argue that putting people into prison for life without a chance for parole is moral or humane...get back to me.

I'm sure you feel very comfortable fighting "capital punishment."

I can tell you that I am VERY comfortable fighting the notion of putting people into prison (especially the prisons we have have right now) for the entire rest of their lives...with no hope of parole. It is one of the most barbaric things I can imagine...AND MOST ASSUREDLY IS MORE BARBARIC than capital punishment even though some innocent lives will be lost.

Getting rid of the barbarism of despots throughout the world has often involved LOTS of loss of innocent lives. It is a shame some prices have to be paid...but paid they will be.

Feel free to continue to be blind to that.

I understand.

 

[domer76]

If you want to continue to argue that putting people into prison for life without a chance for parole is moral or humane...get back to me.

I'm sure you feel very comfortable fighting "capital punishment."

I can tell you that I am VERY comfortable fighting the notion of putting people into prison (especially the prisons we have have right now) for the entire rest of their lives...with no hope of parole. It is one of the most barbaric things I can imagine...AND MOST ASSUREDLY IS MORE BARBARIC than capital punishment even though some innocent lives will be lost.

Getting rid of the barbarism of despots throughout the world has often involved LOTS of loss of innocent lives. It is a shame some prices have to be paid...but paid they will be.

Feel free to continue to be blind to that.

I understand.

4 out of 100 that can never see their family again and never have a chance to prove their innocence.

Got any of your family you’re willing to sacrifice, Frank?

 

[Ross Dolan]

4 out of 100 that can never see their family again and never have a chance to prove their innocence.

Got any of your family you’re willing to sacrifice, Frank?

Nope. But none of my family is in prison on death row...so that was just a loser kind of question.

I repeat: If you want to continue to argue that putting people into prison for life without a chance for parole is moral or humane...get back to me.

I'm sure you feel very comfortable fighting "capital punishment."

I can tell you that I am VERY comfortable fighting the notion of putting people into prison (especially the prisons we have have right now) for the entire rest of their lives...with no hope of parole. It is one of the most barbaric things I can imagine...AND MOST ASSUREDLY IS MORE BARBARIC than capital punishment even though some innocent lives will be lost.

Getting rid of the barbarism of despots throughout the world has often involved LOTS of loss of innocent lives. It is a shame some prices have to be paid...but paid they will be.

Feel free to continue to be blind to that.

I understand.

 

[domer76]

Nope. But none of my family is in prison on death row...so that was just a loser kind of question.

I repeat: If you want to continue to argue that putting people into prison for life without a chance for parole is moral or humane...get back to me.

I'm sure you feel very comfortable fighting "capital punishment."

I can tell you that I am VERY comfortable fighting the notion of putting people into prison (especially the prisons we have have right now) for the entire rest of their lives...with no hope of parole. It is one of the most barbaric things I can imagine...AND MOST ASSUREDLY IS MORE BARBARIC than capital punishment even though some innocent lives will be lost.

Getting rid of the barbarism of despots throughout the world has often involved LOTS of loss of innocent lives. It is a shame some prices have to be paid...but paid they will be.

Feel free to continue to be blind to that.

I understand.

Frankie, the topic is going so far over your head that I don’t think I can dumb it down for you.

The point is that those 4% do not deserve to be on death row, either. Those 4%, which you are willing to execute, have no chance to prove their innocence.

Why to you promote the execution of innocent people, Frank? Can we execute one of your innocent relatives? Just one out of 25 constitues your acceptable 4%.