Capitalism Has Destroyed / Is Destroying American Family Values
- Thread starter PoliTalker
- Start date
Idiot! No one deregulated NAFTA.....Mr. Trump has opened "renegotiations" and put an end to the one sided agreement that moved US Jobs to Mexico. Other nations like China, Twain, etc., witnessed how the US "rolled over" when Sam Walton bought himself a US Presidency......and began to stick it to the US with their CHEAP KNOCKOFF exports via theft and trade imbalances. Damn what a "denier" and "enabler" of more idiocy. The latest left wing pieces of work to be disassembled by a Successful Businessman who knows how to WIN......Mr. Trump was the Iran Obama Muslim Brotherhood Deal where Obama sent Billions to Iran for NOTHING....but support for more terrorism, and of course He withdrew form the Transpacific Partnership. And He has pulled the teeth of a rouge run away fascist branch of Government that dictates NEW economic laws without ever seeing REPRESENTATION.....the EPA.
Are you suggesting that Sam Walton did not negotiate with Communist China? Strange how Wal-Marts popped up all over Asia. While Bill Clinton was US PRESIDENT. In 1996 Walmart flooded communist China with Sam Walton stores. There are now a total of 443 Stores in China. 406 SUPER WALMARTS 18 Hypermarts and 19 SAMS CLUBS. Again....you are an idiot and a liar based upon the amount of left wing kool aid you drink. Must we wonder just what kind of DEAL Clinton/Walton made with China (how much cheap flea market knockoff crap must Walton take back to the US)?
Trump has nothing to do with the 3+% GDP, Millions of New high paying industrial jobs coming back to the US.....OBAMA DID IT, he just weighted 8 years before he implemented his well timed economic boom? Those acts of DEREGULATIONS are the engine driving this new, less intrusive economy.
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I want things to happen slowly, Poli...but if things keep going in the direction they are..."slowly" is not going to be an option. The kind of thing being discussed here most often happens as the result of civil war, of sorts...great, calamitous uprising sparked by the masses being deprived. (Think late 18th century France or early 20th century Russia.) I DO NOT WANT THAT. But...we are breeding the conditions of that kind of thing.
Neither party is doing enough to head us in the right direction...mostly, I suppose, because "the right direction" is a place we've been told to fear and avoid. I honestly do not know how the path will be carved.
Think of the "distribution of plenty to all"...purely metaphorically. If we continue on a modified capitalism path toward this goal...money will be the form used. I'm hoping better minds than mine will come up with an alternative...something that eliminates money the way we now use it...or having money be of more than just one type.
Which neatly segues me into a thought I had when reading your response to Ralph above. You wrote:
I suspect the "problem" of inequitable wealth distribution is best handled by ceasing to think of it as a problem. Inequitable wealth distribution...GREAT inequitable wealth distribution...is probably inevitable. Unavoidable.
It doesn't actually have to be a problem...IF we manage to produce enough of everything so that everyone has sufficient. Yes, greed will always be with us...but we can steer ourselves toward accepting that "having sufficient/plenty" is more than good enough. I think the greater mass of society is already there. I suspect that the "I am content" people outnumber those who want more for "want" sake. My experience is the people with the most...are the least content...and the most driven toward "I want more."
It can be handled...and still "creating sufficient decent paying jobs for everyone who needs and wants one" is enormously more difficult a problem than how do we get enough of our PLENTY in the hands of EVERYONE so that they can be safe and content. Then we can deal with the evil of greed.
Complicated stuff...not worth pursuing at this point in the conversation.
SNAFU
PoliTalker
Diversity Makes Greatness
Here's a good short article giving some insight into how capitalism is seen:
"The reason capitalism doesn’t work is because it fosters greed. It does not provide a healthy atmosphere for people to grow in. When people are not under the yoke of capitalism or having to be “in survival mode” they turn their attention to making their lives better – which means doing things that help society as a whole. It is only because they are in survival mode that they do not do these things!"
LETTER: Capitalism doesn’t work because it fosters greed
"The reason capitalism doesn’t work is because it fosters greed. It does not provide a healthy atmosphere for people to grow in. When people are not under the yoke of capitalism or having to be “in survival mode” they turn their attention to making their lives better – which means doing things that help society as a whole. It is only because they are in survival mode that they do not do these things!"
LETTER: Capitalism doesn’t work because it fosters greed
Clearly capitalism works or you would be talking German or Russian right about now with no freedoms to express your OPINION....how ever wrong history proves it to be.
You do comprehend that it was CAPITALISM that brought down the evil that was the USSR? Right? The US simply out spent the Reds who had to use monies earmarked for HUMAN NEEDS in order to even attempt to keep up with the US and its peace through strength policy. THE PEOPLE in RUSSIA simply said, HELL NO. Another good example of YOUR TYPE of socialist economies would be CUBA and the small nations in South America....all with their people starving. How about Greece? Having to be supported by the goodness of their neighbors in order to feed their people....a nation about to go into total collapse. Truth: Socialism around the world has been good for only one thing.......OVER 100 MILLION SHALLOW UNMARKDED GRAVES in its quest for "social justice".
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Translation; You prefer to lie without rebuttal. I love it when brain dead asshats on the left ignore me. Saves me the time of responding to more lies.
LMFAO
Well there you have it, a letter from some no-name leftist settles it; Capitalism doesn’t work because it fosters greed. Yep, you're an idiot.
On the other side of the idiots argument; BIG Government in control of resources is good for people because it empowers greedy politicians. Morons.
BINGO!!
The wealth distribution is not a natural force we cannot stop. it has been deliberately created by the wealthy. The top tax rate was over 90 percent during Ikes terms. It is not at a third of that. That is a response to the takeover of politics by the wealthy and their lobbying power. They have a Supreme Court in place that is the most pro corporate of all time., They pay for political races and determine the laws they pass. Corporation taxes are drop[ping over and over too. Time to reverse that trend.
There is a way out, Total public financing of elections. No outside money. Then, politicians would do their jobs instead of spend half their time raising money.
PoliTalker
Diversity Makes Greatness
Clearly capitalism works or you would be talking German or Russian right about now with no freedoms to express your OPINION....how ever wrong history proves it to be.
Truth: Socialism around the world has been good for only one thing.......OVER 100 MILLION SHALLOW UNMARKDED GRAVES in its quest for "social justice".
Hi Ralph,
It is incorrect to say capitalism is working for us because we don't speak German. I do not accept that capitalism brought down the USSR. USSR imploded due to too much military spending and disgruntled masses not having enough to get by. Only our already-in-place socialism prevents the same thing in the USA.
Ii is incorrect to equate 'a balance of strong capitalism and vibrant socialism' with Cuba. That's a straw man.
We are not Greece. Another bad comparison. Our parameters are very different from Greece.
You characterization of socialism is your opinion, not truth. Most industrialized nations on Earth today have socialist health care systems, retirement, paid maternity leave, way better vacation policies, better health outcomes, the work fewer hours, have more time for family, and they live longer. Much of that is due to successful socialism policies.
And once again, I am not arguing socialism vs capitalism. I have said all along we need a balance between the two.
PoliTalker
Diversity Makes Greatness
Financial stress is tearing American poor and middle class families apart!
They are too busy seeking dwindling income opportunities to spend quality time.
They are too busy seeking dwindling income opportunities to spend quality time.
I appreciate what you are saying, Nordberg...and I hope you are correct.
But history suggests otherwise.
Every civilization shows marks of "have's" and "have not's."
America had very wide distribution of wealth from Revolutionary times...right up 'til today.
The communist USSR, despite its protestations, had wide distribution of wealth. Putin's net worth is estimated to be between $70 and $200 billions of dollars.
In any case, I focus on EVERYONE having sufficient. If that could be accomplished..."great disparity of wealth" would not significantly bother me at all.
Destruction of unions for example.
cawacko
Well-known member
Destruction of unions? You mean like giving people a choice if they want to join a union or not? Why is giving people a choice a bad thing?
They get the benefits that a union provides and don't have to pay dues. If they have that option, people like you would opt out and enjoy union protections for free..Unions fought and won all the benefits that you think you deserve, paid vacations, healthcare, worker protections, safer work conditions and ability to fight arbitrary bosses. and lots more. Unions created the middle class that was once so strong. Now that unions are getting beaten, the middle class is fading way.Why do you think corporations beat and killed union organizers? Sport? As unions go, so go the workers.
They get the benefits that a union provides and don't have to pay dues. If they have that option, people like you would opt out and enjoy union protections for free..Unions fought and won all the benefits that you think you deserve, paid vacations, healthcare, worker protections, safer work conditions and ability to fight arbitrary bosses. and lots more. Unions created the middle class that was once so strong. Now that unions are getting beaten, the middle class is fading way.Why do you think corporations beat and killed union organizers? Sport? As unions go, so go the workers.
cawacko
Well-known member
Technology and globalization have changed corporate America forever. People don't come to the Silicon Valley and say they want to join a union, they come wanting stock options. Unions served their purpose but in our dynamic economy they don't play a role like they used to. Again, times change. People also tend not to work their entire career for one company anymore either. You're stuck in the past if you think we can get back to '1960's level private sector union membership
Exactly
The demise of unions is a huge part of the problem faced by workers.
But even strong unions will not protect workers from the coming slaughter...at the hands of technology.
I know...I know...there will be those claiming I am crying wolf!
I'm not.
PoliTalker
Diversity Makes Greatness
Hello Frank,
It's true. AI is going to give the owners of industry the chance to purchase a single machine which will replace many workers. The machine will work 24-7-365 with no meal breaks or sleep required. It has no personal concerns, no family, never takes a vacation, and never gets sick. Then there will be another machine which will service the first machine, giving it everything it needs to keep right on cranking out product. Still more machines will procure and bring materials. More will take finished product, inspect it and pack it into packaging ready for consumers. Computer bots will handle sales transactions and generate purchase orders, sell orders, generate reports. There really isn't going to be much in the way of human labor required.
Our current capitalism model would have this occur without any consideration for what happens to the ex workers. The owners of capital would simply make machine purchases instead of hire American or anybody else. But this will quickly break the economy because there will be insufficient demand for products, because too few potential workers will have much income. Presumably, under the current system they would be on the dole, which pretty much only rewards childbirth while punishing not having children.
Since the above can't work, something is going to have to change.
Telling people they just need to try harder to find work and they should have better family values is not going to solve it either.