cawacko and mott - what would it take for them to flip parties?

Jade Dragon said:
You don't understand the concept of pro-life. You aren't a Christian after all.
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I never was. I am an atheist.

"pro-life" is just a political term as it relates to abortion. Just like if you are pro-choice that doesn't mean you also hve to support the choice for someone to own a gun, or the choice to pay taxes. You don't see me talking about how the pro-choice side doesn't actually believe in people being able to make choices on everything, do you? Don't be so obtuse.
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
Your other post was well-written. Current meaning of the word "pro-life" simply means "forced birth." If someone is truly pro-life, they are against the death penalty, they are against guns for everyone no matter whether they are sane or not. They are for providing for the poor, especially children -- whether that means food, shelter, clothing, education. The only truly pro-life organization I can think of is the Catholic Church.
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so you aren't pro choice because you dont support my choice to not pay taxes. If you don't support all choices, you can't call yourself pro-choice. that's your logic.
 
DeepGrind said:
I was the only one of my CCD class not to be confirmed into the faith. Booya.
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You should read the classic Sci-Fi novella “A canticle for Leibowitz”. It’s about how humans vis-a-vis the Catholic Church keep making the same fuck ups over and over again resulting in blowing our selves up.
 
DeepGrind said:
what would it take to make mott vote for a republican

what would it take to make cawacko vote democrat

honest question to everyone included those mentioned above
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On the local level I've voted for the past five Democratic Mayors of SF. Of course the caveat there are no Republicans who run in SF. Gavin Newsom is the only politician I've ever given money too. On a state level I vote only Republican/Libertarian. On a national level I've voted against Nancy Pelosi every election guaranteeing that at least she doesn't win with 100% of the vote. This past senatorial election I voted for DiFi but my other option was a more liberal Democrat, other than that I vote Republicans for the Senate. For President I've voted for the Republican three out of six times. Once I voted for Perot, once I wasn't able to vote and this past election I voted for Gary Johnson.

When I get upset at Republicans I vote for Libertarians. It's interesting to me that I come across as this faux conservative (even though I've been called racist multiple times by multiple people) who might want to be a Democrat. You couldn't pay me to be a Democrat and I say that while acknowledging I have plenty of issues with Republicans.
 
DeepGrind said:
I never was. I am an atheist.

"pro-life" is just a political term as it relates to abortion. Just like if you are pro-choice that doesn't mean you also hve to support the choice for someone to own a gun, or the choice to pay taxes. You don't see me talking about how the pro-choice side doesn't actually believe in people being able to make choices on everything, do you? Don't be so obtuse.
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Thank you. If it was really "pro-choice" they would be for school choice just as one example and others like you mentioned. "Pro-choice" and "pro-life" are simply political terms related to abortion, not (necessarily) other issues.
 
cawacko said:
On the local level I've voted for the past five Democratic Mayors of SF. Of course the caveat there are no Republicans who run in SF. Gavin Newsom is the only politician I've ever given money too. On a state level I vote only Republican/Libertarian. On a national level I've voted against Nancy Pelosi every election guaranteeing that at least she doesn't win with 100% of the vote. This past senatorial election I voted for DiFi but my other option was a more liberal Democrat, other than that I vote Republicans for the Senate. For President I've voted for the Republican three out of six times. Once I voted for Perot, once I wasn't able to vote and this past election I voted for Gary Johnson.

When I get upset at Republicans I vote for Libertarians. It's interesting to me that I come across as this faux conservative (even though I've been called racist multiple times by multiple people) who might want to be a Democrat. You couldn't pay me to be a Democrat and I say that while acknowledging I have plenty of issues with Republicans.
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i wasn't calling you a faux conservative. I just picked you because..... you are more moderateish. Case in point you gave money to newsom, voted for the gun stealing DiFi, etc. I wouldn't be able to do that on shear principle, but I understand sometimes the art of pragmatic politics especially in a communist state like california
 
DeepGrind said:
this doesn't make any sense. you actually think poor people get taxed and that money goes to rich people? that's retarded.
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Actually, historically speaking, that’s exactly what most governments have done.

Ok, that’s not literally true today in our Republic. The affluent pay most of the taxes. However the laws and services those taxes pay for disproportionately benefit the wealthiest political class. So not much has really changed except the kleptocracy is more indirect than direct. A great read that Billy suggested to me by Jared Diamond “Guns, Germs and Steel” goes into that topic. He concludes that the most developed nations have the least degree of kleptocracy in government but that it exist to a certain extent in all governments.
 
DeepGrind said:
I never was. I am an atheist.

"pro-life" is just a political term as it relates to abortion. Just like if you are pro-choice that doesn't mean you also hve to support the choice for someone to own a gun, or the choice to pay taxes. You don't see me talking about how the pro-choice side doesn't actually believe in people being able to make choices on everything, do you? Don't be so obtuse.
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The pro-life stuff became a political movement, with the fucked up moral majority stuff. Most the politicians on the right, use religion in the use of pro-life, since most of it stems from it. It isn't just about the late term aborting of a baby, it's surrounded by some moment of conception nonsense. The whole late term thing, just doesn't happen the way the right portrays. And most dems reserve that being OK only for serious reasons, where you don't have much choice. The way many dumbass republican politicians talk, about the reasoning behind needing to carry a rape baby to term, is sick, insensitive, and fucking nuts. If peoples brain cells aren't begging for mercy hearing that stuff, people aren't listening, or aren't using them much. If you want the non-bullshit pro life stuff I'd sign up. Politicians leaving rape victims out of this, is the easiest way to start.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Actually, historically speaking, that’s exactly what most governments have done.

Ok, that’s not literally true today in our Republic. The affluent pay most of the taxes. However the laws and services those taxes pay for disproportionately benefit the wealthiest political class. So not much has really changed except the kleptocracy is more indirect than direct. A great read that Billy suggested to me by Jared Diamond “Guns, Germs and Steel” goes into that topic. He concludes that the most developed nations have the least degree of kleptocracy in government but that it exist to a certain extent in all governments.
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you are obfuscating the issue jade was talking about mott. don't.
 
Jade Dragon said:
The pro-life stuff became a political movement, with the fucked up moral majority stuff. Most the politicians on the right, use religion in the use of pro-life, since most of it stems from it. It isn't just about the late term aborting of a baby, it's surrounded by some moment of conception nonsense. The whole late term thing, just doesn't happen the way the right portrays. And most dems reserve that being OK only for serious reasons, where you don't have much choice. The way many dumbass republican politicians talk, about the reasoning behind needing to carry a rape baby to term, is sick, insensitive, and fucking nuts. If peoples brain cells aren't begging for mercy hearing that stuff, people aren't listening, or aren't using them much.
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the pro life stuff is a political movement about abortion. No one ever pretended to care about the sanctity of life concerning a serial murderer.

you aren't pro choice because you don't support my choice to not pay taxes. stop calling yourself pro choice.
 
DeepGrind said:
i wasn't calling you a faux conservative. I just picked you because..... you are more moderateish. Case in point you gave money to newsom, voted for the gun stealing DiFi, etc. I wouldn't be able to do that on shear principle, but I understand sometimes the art of pragmatic politics especially in a communist state like california
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Fair enough, I don't take it personal. In San Francisco I look at if from an economic perspective. The Mayor is going to be left wing no matter who it is, but some are more "pro markets" or "pro business" than others and who that person is affects my bottom line. Gavin owned businesses and was damn near a Republican light when I donated money to him and he was running against a socialist for Mayor. Of course I wouldn't give a cent to Newsome today and he's moved very much to the left.

As far as DiFi goes the nature of California's system is you have two choices and they were both Democrats. I understand wanting to pass and vote for neither. But to me, from a pragmatic perspective, I'd rather DiFi than DeLeon.
 
cawacko said:
On the local level I've voted for the past five Democratic Mayors of SF. Of course the caveat there are no Republicans who run in SF. Gavin Newsom is the only politician I've ever given money too. On a state level I vote only Republican/Libertarian. On a national level I've voted against Nancy Pelosi every election guaranteeing that at least she doesn't win with 100% of the vote. This past senatorial election I voted for DiFi but my other option was a more liberal Democrat, other than that I vote Republicans for the Senate. For President I've voted for the Republican three out of six times. Once I voted for Perot, once I wasn't able to vote and this past election I voted for Gary Johnson.

When I get upset at Republicans I vote for Libertarians. It's interesting to me that I come across as this faux conservative (even though I've been called racist multiple times by multiple people) who might want to be a Democrat. You couldn't pay me to be a Democrat and I say that while acknowledging I have plenty of issues with Republicans.
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Well there you go Grind. If you were looking for common Ground both Wacko and I were dumb enough to vote for Perot.
 
Pro-life is an idea that all life is sacred, and should be treated with the respect it deserves. From abortion, all the way down to treating animals bred for slaughter, with the proper respect. The Native Americans had the last one down. If republicans want to run with this concept, they either have to take the religion out of it, or embrace the religion behind it. No picking, and choosing.
 
Jade Dragon said:
Pro-life is an idea that all life is sacred, and should be treated with the respect it deserves. From abortion, all the way down to treating animals bred for slaughter, with the proper respect. The Native Americans had the last one down. If republicans want to run with this concept, they either have to take the religion out of it, or embrace the religion behind it. No picking, and choosing.
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no it's not. you are retarded.
 
cawacko said:
Fair enough, I don't take it personal. In San Francisco I look at if from an economic perspective. The Mayor is going to be left wing no matter who it is, but some are more "pro markets" or "pro business" than others and who that person is affects my bottom line. Gavin owned businesses and was damn near a Republican light when I donated money to him and he was running against a socialist for Mayor. Of course I wouldn't give a cent to Newsome today and he's moved very much to the left.

As far as DiFi goes the nature of California's system is you have two choices and they were both Democrats. I understand wanting to pass and vote for neither. But to me, from a pragmatic perspective, I'd rather DiFi than DeLeon.
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Same here. In our 2014 gubernatorial election our Democratic candidate was so inept I voted for a guy who I swore I would never it’s for when I voted for Kasich. Though my reasons for disliking Kasich were personal.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
How so?
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well for example you literally conceed his description isn't accurate in your post.

button pushers are not the movers of our economy, they are useless. If it weren't for rich peoples taxes, proles like jade would be up shits creek. He has it ass backwards, the rich pay for everything. The very idea that the government takes money and gives it to the rich is absurd.
 
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