Climate Change - Yet another UN report

T. A. Gardner said:
But, they do eventually end. What would happen to the Gorebal Warming crowd if temperatures suddenly levelled off for a few decades?
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There is always a possibility ocean temperature could stabilize but the graph shows the Earth spends 2/3 of its time without polar ice.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
But, they do eventually end.
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As in the case of the Maya and meso America, yes the multidecadal drought did end, but the society collapsed before it ended. That's the point. I don't think anyone says global warming is going to destroy the planet, but it sure can do a number on our societies. How long do you think we'd survive as a nation if, say, the population of southern California had to relocate somewhere else? That's going to be an immeasurable cost. I can conceive of that, alone, dealing a major blow to American society. Then add in increases in superstorms on the East Coast and you have a perfect storm of disasters.

What would happen to the Gorebal Warming crowd if temperatures suddenly levelled off for a few decades?
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Well, first, we have an example of that in the 20th century. Global warming started sometime in the late 19th century but in the 1940's with the advent of WWII suddenly industrialization jumped many fold. It caused a huge amount of sulfate aerosols to be pumped into the atmosphere and caused cooling. From the 1940's to the 1970's we saw cooling. This was because we had put a negative forcing in (in the form of pollution) that offset the warming forcings like greenhouse gas emissions. When we cleaned up the air in the 1970's the warming started in again.

If the temperature "leveled out" it would have to be because some negative forcing offset the warming forcings we are currently doing.
 
Quincunx said:
Multidecadal droughts have been known to destroy societies. Just look at the Maya.
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The Maya indians still exist. Their society was not destroyed. Indeed, they had a hell of a New Year's party in 2012!

There is no such word as 'multidecadal'. Buzzword fallacy.
Are you trying to describe a desert?
 
Quincunx said:
As in the case of the Maya and meso America, yes the multidecadal drought did end, but the society collapsed before it ended. That's the point. I don't think anyone says global warming is going to destroy the planet, but it sure can do a number on our societies. How long do you think we'd survive as a nation if, say, the population of southern California had to relocate somewhere else? That's going to be an immeasurable cost. I can conceive of that, alone, dealing a major blow to American society. Then add in increases in superstorms on the East Coast and you have a perfect storm of disasters.



Well, first, we have an example of that in the 20th century. Global warming started sometime in the late 19th century but in the 1940's with the advent of WWII suddenly industrialization jumped many fold. It caused a huge amount of sulfate aerosols to be pumped into the atmosphere and caused cooling. From the 1940's to the 1970's we saw cooling. This was because we had put a negative forcing in (in the form of pollution) that offset the warming forcings like greenhouse gas emissions. When we cleaned up the air in the 1970's the warming started in again.

If the temperature "leveled out" it would have to be because some negative forcing offset the warming forcings we are currently doing.
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The Maya are still there. Their society didn't collapse.

Define 'global warming'. Like others in your religion, you can't even define your God.

Much of the population of southern California has ALREADY relocated to someplace else. They are fleeing the dictatorship there, you see.

What is a 'superstorm'?

There is no such thing as 'forcing' in weather or climate.
Define this 'pollution'. What is it? What is it polluting?

No gas or vapor has the capability to warm the Earth.

Are you suggesting we 'pollute' the air to 'save the Earth'??
 
Quincunx said:
Go to the Yucatan. Look at the ruins. Compare their civilization to what they have today.
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Their ruins? Are you talking about the conquest by the Spanish? No, the Spanish didn't kill them all. Mayan still exist.
What has all this to do with the Church of Global Warming?
 
Into the Night said:
Their ruins? Are you talking about the conquest by the Spanish? No, the Spanish didn't kill them all. Mayan still exist.
What has all this to do with the Church of Global Warming?
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You don't really know Meso American history all that well. Clearly. Chichen Itza was abandoned in the 1400's. Well before the Conquistadors came.
 
Quincunx said:
As in the case of the Maya and meso America, yes the multidecadal drought did end, but the society collapsed before it ended. That's the point. I don't think anyone says global warming is going to destroy the planet, but it sure can do a number on our societies. How long do you think we'd survive as a nation if, say, the population of southern California had to relocate somewhere else? That's going to be an immeasurable cost. I can conceive of that, alone, dealing a major blow to American society. Then add in increases in superstorms on the East Coast and you have a perfect storm of disasters.
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But it wasn't the only cause. The Maya also had in-fighting and civil wars going on, among other issues. As for California, the population of the whole state is relocating elsewhere due to government overreach and incompetence. If San Fran does really make reparations on the scale they're talking about, every non-Black in that city will leave. Who would willingly pay extortionist levels of taxes to see it given away to people who the taxed likely see as undeserving?


Well, first, we have an example of that in the 20th century. Global warming started sometime in the late 19th century but in the 1940's with the advent of WWII suddenly industrialization jumped many fold. It caused a huge amount of sulfate aerosols to be pumped into the atmosphere and caused cooling. From the 1940's to the 1970's we saw cooling. This was because we had put a negative forcing in (in the form of pollution) that offset the warming forcings like greenhouse gas emissions. When we cleaned up the air in the 1970's the warming started in again.

If the temperature "leveled out" it would have to be because some negative forcing offset the warming forcings we are currently doing.
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All it would take was one or two major volcanic eruptions to happen. I'm talking a Krakatoa-sized one. If the Yellowstone caldera erupted, it would make Gorebal Warming the least of our problems. The Gorebal Warming crowd is simply myopic and narcissistic.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
But it wasn't the only cause. The Maya also had in-fighting and civil wars going on, among other issues.
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Agreed. But it certainly is one of the main ones. That's the point.

As for California, the population of the whole state is relocating elsewhere due to government overreach and incompetence. If San Fran does really make reparations on the scale they're talking about, every non-Black in that city will leave. Who would willingly pay extortionist levels of taxes to see it given away to people who the taxed likely see as undeserving?
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I used Cali as an example only, and because they are in the middle of a multiyear drought, it also represents a HUGE population that is already water-stressed. Hopefully that was clear.

The point being that mass migrations will be a huge cost.

All it would take was one or two major volcanic eruptions to happen. I'm talking a Krakatoa-sized one.
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Maybe. We know how climate forcings work in no small way because we see what happens with things like Pinatubo. Some of the estimates for climate sensitivity to various forcings have been confirmed because of that.

Yes, something horrible could happen to plunge us into some new climatic regime, but that doesn't change the fact that we know we are largely responsible for the warming we see now.

If the Yellowstone caldera erupted, it would make Gorebal Warming the least of our problems.
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So would nuclear war on a large scale. Doesn't change the fact that AGW is real and something we are largely responsible for. Should we just hope that we can destroy ourselves with a nuclear winter rather than address climate change?

The Gorebal Warming crowd is simply myopic and narcissistic.
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Because they want to deal with the issues as they are and not just hope for a massive volcano to erupt and destroy most of the middle part of the US?
 
Quincunx said:
Go to the Yucatan. Look at the ruins. Compare their civilization to what they have today.
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No wonder you're so confused. You're looking in the wrong place. If you want to find Mayans, you have to look where they are, not where they aren't.

Go to Guatemala. Look at all the Ki'ché. Tell them they don't exist .
 
IBDaMann said:
No wonder you're so confused. You're looking in the wrong place. If you want to find Mayans, you have to look where they are, not where they aren't.

Go to Guatemala. Look at all the Ki'ché. Tell them they don't exist .
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I never said mayan people were gone. I said their civilization was decimated by the multiyear droughts. This is not a controversial statement. Most historians agree that it is a combination of some internal strife, poor civic planning and a multidecadal drought.

I thought that was kind of clear. My apologies if it wasn't.

Here's a resource: https://www.history.com/news/why-di...sted a number,factors was behind the collapse.
 
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