Drunk Rodney King Shot! BAC get yo ass over to LA and teach those Korean Store Owners

Since everybody is sharing personal stories regarding this topic, I'll share mine. I had an African American teacher (I'm a whitey) in my freshman year of high school show me a whole new perspective about race, gender, stereotypes and how they hurt people in a bad fucking way. I'll never forget her, what a great woman. Wherever you are, Ms. Clemons, I hope you're doing well.
 
Since everybody is sharing personal stories regarding this topic, I'll share mine. I had an African American teacher (I'm a whitey) in my freshman year of high school show me a whole new perspective about race, gender, stereotypes and how they hurt people in a bad fucking way. I'll never forget her, what a great woman. Wherever you are, Ms. Clemons, I hope you're doing well.

That's a good story and it exemplifies who we should be as Americans. Our diversity is an asset.

We should not indulge racist people and their thought.

Life's too short to dance with ugly people.
 
That's a good story and it exemplifies who we should be as Americans. Our diversity is an asset.

We should not indulge racist people and their thought.

Life's too short to dance with ugly people.

I think you and Ironhead got off on the wrong foot. I've known him for 4 years now on all severl boards, and he's one of the most well thought out, informed and intelligent guys I've run across.

As are you.
 
That's a good story and it exemplifies who we should be as Americans. Our diversity is an asset.

We should not indulge racist people and their thought.

Life's too short to dance with ugly people.

I don't think anyone has indulged Dano on this point, it was a discussion about an ugly thought he had. The only way for some people to change is to be persuaded to self-evaluate. If that was the goal, then nothing was wasted.
 
That's a good story and it exemplifies who we should be as Americans. Our diversity is an asset.

We should not indulge racist people and their thought.

Life's too short to dance with ugly people.


So why is everyone dancing with Rodney? the guy is a loser and I wish this whole issue would just go away...I saw it on the news and just turned the channel...this was a local issue as it has been for years...the first coverage was National...now this diatribe has a never ending story!
 
Of course I haven't whined about being a white male.
And Gonzo is right a white male can be descriminated against.
But saying we suffer from it is = wanting to be in Asshat's little yellow school bus clan
it's fucking redicoulus on it's face. And besides being comical it's embarrassing for the moron trying to make the claim.
 
Here in Australia we got the same news reports as were aired in the US. We go the few minutes grab of the video of the incident. I remember being in pretty high dudgeon at what I'd seen. Now I have to say I had visited some police establishments in LA (several times to the Academy) on my trips to the US and found the LAPD cops to be highly trained and professional, if a bit military gung-ho for my liking, but that's just me, I don't believe in militarism in policiing. But LA isn't like anywhere in Australia so I figured they were reflecting the hazards of their job.

Anyway I watched the news and read the papers and I thought they were goners.

I returned to LA while the Simi Valley trial was under way and discussed it with an ex-LAPD friend of mine. I couldn't help it, I just blurted out how the King incident looked really bad and the cops were out of control. He took issue with me. He'd been watching the whole trial on Court TV (he's a writer) and told me that what had been seen on the news and portrayed in the press was a fraction of what had happened and that in his opinion the cops had used appropriate tactics and force. I still wasn't convinced but all I had was the news footage so how was I to argue?

I remember the day of the acquittal. It was my last day in LA on that trip before flying out from LAX in the early evening to come home. I was poodling around downtown LA in the rental car, just having a last look around before heading home. I remember driving through what looked in retrospect suspiciously like the area where Reginald Denny came to grief. I remember remarking to my then wife that it was very quiet. I'd forgotten that the trial was ending.

I took the rental car back to LAX and caught the shuttle back to the terminal and did all those pre-flight things you do. I remember sitting in a lounge in the airport drinking beer and watching a yuppie couple trying to talk to the Vietnamese lady in the bar. Problem was they were speaking Spanish to her. She just looked at me and rolled her eyes. I had no idea that at that moment LA was burning. When I got back to Aus I was stunned.

I went back on another trip not that long after. I saw my friend again and we discussed the whole thing at length. I bought Stacey Koon's book (yes, I know you could call it self-serving) and read it when I got back home again. This was after the federal trial if I remember rightly. I read much of what Koon's attorney wrote about both trials. I read the reports of the plea bargains and deals that were going on in the federal process.

I believe the cops were victims of political necessity, I really do. I saw the longer version of the tape. Koon was in control and giving orders. Yes they were striking King with PR24 batons but it wasn't an out-of-control pile-on, it was cold-blooded application of force.

Many of you will dispute this. Fair enough, all I can do is tell you what my experiences were. I'm not a reflexive knee-jerk defender of the police, I'm not too happy with the speed with which the taser seems to being used in various jurisdictions these days (I'm told I'm close to becoming a dinosaur) but I do believe that injustice was done to the cops.

The irony of the CHP being involved in the start of the King situation wasn't lost on me at the time. I remember reading accounts of the events that precipitated the Watts riots of 1966, CHP was at the beginning of that one too. An eerie historical echo.

Interesting analysis here - http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/trials24.htm



I lived in So Cal at the time this all went down. I agree with the opinion that holding the trial in simi vally was the worst mistake possible. That was what turned this into the mess it became. I felt so bad during the aftermath of this trial and really thought it looked way over the top in police brutality. No person trusted with the protection of the public should ever think of even saying something like "gorillas in the mist" in referance to an arrest of someone of color. I can not believe the man did not have some problems with people of color if he was able to say shit like that.
 
I think you and Ironhead got off on the wrong foot. I've known him for 4 years now on all severl boards, and he's one of the most well thought out, informed and intelligent guys I've run across.

As are you.

Thank you brother, I think the same of you as well and oftentimes your comments are seriously funny.

But if we're all intelligent people discussing serious issues, why the charade? Why take offense to others challenging what you say you are, based on what you've said? Generally, good thinkers relish that challenge in debate .. not to suggest he's not a good thinker.

But, if you can't defend what you say you believe, why do you believe it?

But I think too much has been made about it and if I've offended him I apologize. I think honest conversation requires laying your cards on the table, but that could just be me. We're not deciding who's right or wrong, we're discussing perspectives. Others and history will decide who was right.
 
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Thank you brother, I think the same of you as well and oftentimes your comments are seriously funny.

But if we're all intelligent people discussing serious issues, why the charade? Why take offense to others challenging what you say you are, based on what you've said? Generally, good thinkers relish that challenge in debate .. not to suggest he's not a good thinker.

But, if you can't defend what you say you believe, why do you believe it?

But I think too much has been made about it and if I've offended him I apologize. I think honest conversation requires laying your cards on the table, but that could just be me. We're not deciding who's right or wrong, we're discussing perspectives. Others and history will decide who was right.


Maybe you should re-read my posts on this thread, but I wasn't taking issue with anything you said. In fact, my first comment was for Dano, telling him that this thread is why I sometimes suspect that he is a bit racist. Mind you, I am still willing to engage someone like that in the hope that I can change their mind. You didn't offend me in the slightest.

As for other issues, we seem to be butting heads rather quickly, but I think you'll find that we'll agree more often than not (assuming you're liberal on most issues).
 
So why is everyone dancing with Rodney? the guy is a loser and I wish this whole issue would just go away...I saw it on the news and just turned the channel...this was a local issue as it has been for years...the first coverage was National...now this diatribe has a never ending story!

I wish Paris Hilton would go away ..

They're pulling your strings with Rodney King brother. They've got you fixated on the coverage this non-story is getting and coding you with visions that keep this nation divided, thus controlled. It's called conditioning. By the way, they do the same thing with OJ. .. Having/putting both of them in the news at the same time is almost too good to ask for.

No matter how much of a loser King may or may not be, that changes absolutely nothing about the circumstances or outcomes of a gang of police beating the shit out of him as captured on video. That history has already been written and the outcomes determined.

Teach yourself to give the puppetmasters the finger .. you decide what's important.
 
Well.............

I wish Paris Hilton would go away ..

They're pulling your strings with Rodney King brother. They've got you fixated on the coverage this non-story is getting and coding you with visions that keep this nation divided, thus controlled. It's called conditioning. By the way, they do the same thing with OJ. .. Having/putting both of them in the news at the same time is almost too good to ask for.

No matter how much of a loser King may or may not be, that changes absolutely nothing about the circumstances or outcomes of a gang of police beating the shit out of him as captured on video. That history has already been written and the outcomes determined.

Teach yourself to give the puppetmasters the finger .. you decide what's important.


I will agree that I also wish Paris..and a few other celebrities would also go away...however to paint the picture that all cops are mean spirited and cold blooded goes against my grain...I served proudly..and never used excessive force...this case was blown out of proportion to say the least!

I am sorry but Rodney got exactly what he asked for...does this make it right?No, but life is not a Rose Garden...to continue with this nonsense that 'we are against ye'...is proposturous to say the least...all it does is continue the race wars...enough said!
 
Maybe you should re-read my posts on this thread, but I wasn't taking issue with anything you said. In fact, my first comment was for Dano, telling him that this thread is why I sometimes suspect that he is a bit racist. Mind you, I am still willing to engage someone like that in the hope that I can change their mind. You didn't offend me in the slightest.

As for other issues, we seem to be butting heads rather quickly, but I think you'll find that we'll agree more often than not (assuming you're liberal on most issues).

That comment was for Beefy.

I thought you and I were pretty much in agreeance

I think he's a bit racist myself, but where we differ is that I don't want to spend much time talking to racists trying to change their minds. Society will do that if there is any possiblity that mind can change at all.

I'm quite sure a thread full of good people talking about different cultural perspectives, learning from each other, and the complete rejection of racism is not what he planned when he created this thread.

We spend too much time indulging stupid and illogic thought .. which does not further the course for making intelligent decisions.
 
I will agree that I also wish Paris..and a few other celebrities would also go away...however to paint the picture that all cops are mean spirited and cold blooded goes against my grain...I served proudly..and never used excessive force...this case was blown out of proportion to say the least!

Then I don't question your service, I question your judgement of what is excessive force. If you didn't see excessive force in the King case, then you may well have used excessive force yourself because you don't seem to know what it is.

With all due respect, there is no honesty in suggesting that it was not a brutal demonstration of police brutality. It will forever be what it is, a stain on the LA Police and America that was put on display for the world. The stain comes from the acition itself, not how people painted it.

I am sorry but Rodney got exactly what he asked for...does this make it right?No, but life is not a Rose Garden...to continue with this nonsense that 'we are against ye'...is proposturous to say the least...all it does is continue the race wars...enough said!

By suggesting that King "got what he deserves" you become the painter that paints the picture that all cops are mean-spirited and cold-blooded, because only such a person would say such a thing.

You're free to believe whatever you want about how wonderful police may be to the citizens in their jurisdiction, but that determination belongs to the citizens. There were plenty of valid reasons for black and hispanic LA citizens to fear the police and to suggest otherwise means you haven't done much research on the subject or that you're clearly not honest.

Darryl Gates said that the reason that blacks were being killed by what are now illegal police chokeholds, was because "black peole don't have necks like normal people." Had Al Sharpton said that about white people you'd be fixated on that.
 
Wrong again................

Then I don't question your service, I question your judgement of what is excessive force. If you didn't see excessive force in the King case, then you may well have used excessive force yourself because you don't seem to know what it is.

With all due respect, there is no honesty in suggesting that it was not a brutal demonstration of police brutality. It will forever be what it is, a stain on the LA Police and America that was put on display for the world. The stain comes from the acition itself, not how people painted it.



By suggesting that King "got what he deserves" you become the painter that paints the picture that all cops are mean-spirited and cold-blooded, because only such a person would say such a thing.

You're free to believe whatever you want about how wonderful police may be to the citizens in their jurisdiction, but that determination belongs to the citizens. There were plenty of valid reasons for black and hispanic LA citizens to fear the police and to suggest otherwise means you haven't done much research on the subject or that you're clearly not honest.

Darryl Gates said that the reason that blacks were being killed by what are now illegal police chokeholds, was because "black peole don't have necks like normal people." Had Al Sharpton said that about white people you'd be fixated on that.


I am very familiar with what force should be applied....I actually worked in the field...I remember one incident that I was involved in while working the Southern Border...just south of Yuma ,Arizona...well as it were as Federal Border Patrol Officer we were called apon to respond to local calls when the local Sheriffs Deputies were not available...small budget or something like that!
At any rate I remember a call I and my partner got about a whacked out nut who was in the middle of the Highway...stark-ass naked...with his head down acting like a bull and challeging the flow of traffic...as it turned out this moron was high on PCP...
to make along story short...he put up quite a fight...I was a young stud and in good shape as was my partner...however this scrawney little dude was hell on wheels to control...the drugs I believe...anyhoo his momma and poppa begged us not to hurt him...right like he felt any pain..............!

Anyhoo being the good responsive LE Officers we were... we 'Hogg' tied this nut case( with bailing twine found along the roadside)...Hand cuffs were not a option....would not restrain this nut...

Well we put out the call for Para-Medics to respond...as this was above our area of responsibility...after about 30 minutes of intense battle to keep this idiot from killing himself...the Emergency response vehicle arrived...The medics told us to remove the 'Hogg tie' (hinted that it was abusive)...our response was hell no!...you remove it this guy is whacked out...he is all yours...needless to say they put him in the ambulance 'hogg tie' and all...!


As the old saying goes not everything is as bad as it appears...if you have never dealt with 'PCP' nuts( they are super strong-feel no pain) ya have no room to criticize LE actions...end of story!
 
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I will agree that I also wish Paris..and a few other celebrities would also go away...however to paint the picture that all cops are mean spirited and cold blooded goes against my grain...I served proudly..and never used excessive force...this case was blown out of proportion to say the least!

I am sorry but Rodney got exactly what he asked for...does this make it right?No, but life is not a Rose Garden...to continue with this nonsense that 'we are against ye'...is proposturous to say the least...all it does is continue the race wars...enough said!

Bashing someone beyond reasonable force is the mark of a gutless copper. It's a shameful act. It taints us all.

It's not hard to work out what's excessive, although sometimes when you're on the bottom of the pile your perspective changes I have to say.

People forget that cops are among the very few individuals in society sanctioned to use force - not violence - to discharge their duty. It sometimes looks very ugly, as you would know, but it's a necessary evil.
 
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Not really..............

Bashing someone beyond reasonable force is the mark of a gutless copper. It's a shameful act. It taints us all.

It's not hard to work out what's excessive, although sometimes when you're on the bottom of the pile your perspective changes I have to say.

People forget that cops are among the very few individuals in society sanctioned to use force - not violence - to discharge their duty. It sometimes looks very ugly, as you would know, but it's a necessary evil.



did you even read my comment /story posted above...for the record we were not issued batons on the Border...albeit we were trained in the use of same...had I had a baton during my scuffle with the PCP idiot I would have used it...we were issued Pepper Spray...we used it to no avail...he became worse...if this moron would have broken free from the 'hog tie'...and attacked traffic once again...I would have had no choice but to put him down with deadly force...Model 66 S&W 357 mag...as he was endangering not only himself but innocent drivers who could have had a accident trying to avoid this bull on steroids! Australia is another country with different problems...however, even I would think a Aussie cop would understand force in increments...maybe not!!!


And for the record both me and my partner suffered numerous bites,brusies,scraps and I received a broken finger in the scuffel...thank God HIV was not a issue back then...all I needed was a Tetnus shot,my finger set and anti-biotics...oh yeah and a new uniform as both my shirt and pants were torn during the scuffel!
 
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First off you talk about PCP. King was tested and tested negative for PCP so King was not dusted as Koon testified he "thought" he was. So while your story was informative it is NOT relevant. Second, Tim and Melanie Singer, husband and wife and CHP partners were the ones to pull over King. Tim Singer ordered the occupants of the Hyundai to leave the vehicle and lie face down on the ground. Allen and Helms complied, but King remained in the car. Melanie Singer again shouted at King to get out, which he did. Singer described King as "smiling" as he stood by his car and waved at the police helicopter overhead. As Singer ordered King to get his hands where she could see them, King--according to Singer's testimony--"grabbed his right buttock with his right hand and he shook it at me." King finally complied with Singer's order to lie on the ground. As she drew close to King with her gun drawn to make the arrest, Sergeant Koon, who was not part of the chase and arrived after King pulled over, shouted, "Stand back. Stand back. We'll handle this."

Shortly before 1 A.M., Koon typed a message into his in-car computer: "U just had a big time use of force. Tased and beat the suspect of CHP pursuit." Powell also reported the incident on his computer--in a seemingly boastful way that would come to haunt the defense. Powell typed, "I haven't beaten anyone this bad in a long time." It wasn't Powell's only controversial message that night. Later, investigators would discover another message sent shortly before the King arrest in which he described the scene of a domestic disturbance involving African-Americans as right out of "Gorillas in the Mist."

While at the hospital a police officer was overheard by two nurses comparing the even to a baseball game.
 
Okay Counselor..here is the case...

First off you talk about PCP. King was tested and tested negative for PCP so King was not dusted as Koon testified he "thought" he was. So while your story was informative it is NOT relevant. Second, Tim and Melanie Singer, husband and wife and CHP partners were the ones to pull over King. Tim Singer ordered the occupants of the Hyundai to leave the vehicle and lie face down on the ground. Allen and Helms complied, but King remained in the car. Melanie Singer again shouted at King to get out, which he did. Singer described King as "smiling" as he stood by his car and waved at the police helicopter overhead. As Singer ordered King to get his hands where she could see them, King--according to Singer's testimony--"grabbed his right buttock with his right hand and he shook it at me." King finally complied with Singer's order to lie on the ground. As she drew close to King with her gun drawn to make the arrest, Sergeant Koon, who was not part of the chase and arrived after King pulled over, shouted, "Stand back. Stand back. We'll handle this."

Shortly before 1 A.M., Koon typed a message into his in-car computer: "U just had a big time use of force. Tased and beat the suspect of CHP pursuit." Powell also reported the incident on his computer--in a seemingly boastful way that would come to haunt the defense. Powell typed, "I haven't beaten anyone this bad in a long time." It wasn't Powell's only controversial message that night. Later, investigators would discover another message sent shortly before the King arrest in which he described the scene of a domestic disturbance involving African-Americans as right out of "Gorillas in the Mist."

While at the hospital a police officer was overheard by two nurses comparing the even to a baseball game.


Although you put forward the motion...and here comes Counselor Soco...the fact remains...yes the officers involved did use questionable language on the radio..yes that was bad...however your claim that Rodney was not on PCP is up for discussion...as he refused the blood test on arrest...we will never really know for sure of the test results as they were later on...(late show negative) However he does have a history of drug and alcohol abuse as well as a long criminal history....and showed all the signs/symptons of PCP use during the altercation!


I also know you did the history search on this case as did I...we can post equal for and against every link...this will not solve the issue as discussed...we both know this! Were mistakes made on both sides....ya bet your boots there were...now here comes counselor soco with the next motion...this is so fun!:tongout:
 
did you even read my comment /story posted above...for the record we were not issued batons on the Border...albeit we were trained in the use of same...had I had a baton during my scuffle with the PCP idiot I would have used it...we were issued Pepper Spray...we used it to no avail...he became worse...if this moron would have broken free from the 'hog tie'...and attacked traffic once again...I would have had no choice but to put him down with deadly force...Model 66 S&W 357 mag...as he was endangering not only himself but innocent drivers who could have had a accident trying to avoid this bull on steroids! Australia is another country with different problems...however, even I would think a Aussie cop would understand force in increments...maybe not!!!


And for the record both me and my partner suffered numerous bites,brusies,scraps and I received a broken finger in the scuffel...thank God HIV was not a issue back then...all I needed was a Tetnus shot,my finger set and anti-biotics...oh yeah and a new uniform as both my shirt and pants were torn during the scuffel!

Of course I read your post. What's the problem?
 
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