Enceladus, Saturn's ocean world

Cypress said:
Not only does faster than light travel by matter defy the laws of physics, but I am dubious that intelligence capable of advanced technology is neccesarily a preordained outcome of evolution anywhere life gets a toe hold. Homo sapiens might be an evolutionary fluke, and the Earth got along just fine without us for four billion years.
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Agreed Earth doesn't need life. Mars is fine as is. Still, the Universe does seem predisposed to generating life even if it's an extremely rare event per the "ubiquitous organic compound" discussion.

The distances between stars and the limitations of travel would severely hamper interstellar colonization. Colony ships* would be one-way trips, not USS Enterprise-style ships zipping all over the place.

Not a theoretical physicist, but if we develop tech to "warp" or fold space, then why not travel between different universes or timelines?

*Think Arthur C. Clarke's "Rendezvous with Rama" or Robert A. Heinlein's "Orphans of the Sky"
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Cypress said:
Addressed ad nauseam.
--> https://www.justplainpolitics.com/s...e-a-quantum-fluctuation&p=5644947#post5644947


You spent your entire Memorial Day on my thread screaming about seawater, and indulging your petty resentment about me.

That is more than just a little weird.


If it's that important for you to parade around trying to convince posters you know more about chemistry than me, that's fine with me. I didn't major in chemistry, whereas as you have been quick to announce you have been awarded a glorious biogeochem PhD
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And you don't even know basic high school chemistry which is why you had to google "Freezing Point Depression".
 
Quincunx said:
And you don't even know basic high school chemistry which is why you had to google "Freezing Point Depression".
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Here you are putting others down, and you wouldn't tell me what your area of expertise is. Also if all you can do is keep repeating the same line over and over, it must be that you don't have much to offer.
 
Doc Dutch said:
Agreed Earth doesn't need life. Mars is fine as is. Still, the Universe does seem predisposed to generating life even if it's an extremely rare event per the "ubiquitous organic compound" discussion.

The distances between stars and the limitations of travel would severely hamper interstellar colonization. Colony ships* would be one-way trips, not USS Enterprise-style ships zipping all over the place.

Not a theoretical physicist, but if we develop tech to "warp" or fold space, then why not travel between different universes or timelines?

*Think Arthur C. Clarke's "Rendezvous with Rama" or Robert A. Heinlein's "Orphans of the Sky"
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I think one of the best arguments against interstellar travel, besides the violation of physical laws, is the fact we have no confirmations of Seeing any interstellar travelers from other planets
 
Cypress said:
You obviously have some obsessive sense of resentment and inferiority complex about me, Perry PhD.

There are counselors who deal with stuff like that.
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Don't lie about people. I never said I have a PhD in biogeochemistry.

I guess you are OK with liars, I'm not.

Why are you so dishonest?
 
Quincunx said:
Don't lie about people. I never said I have a PhD in biogeochemistry.

I guess you are OK with liars, I'm not.

Why are you so dishonest?
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You might want to repeat high school chemistry if you didn't know liquid water was molecular liquid H2O

Cypress said:
Liquid water can't exist in that phase below 0 C, so it can't be that cold.

The watery core of Enceladus exists beneath a frozen crust, and my sense is that the interior of Enceladus is heated by gravitational tidal forces by it's orbital dynamics with Saturn
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Seawater is not liquid molecular H2O.

Chemically speaking, seawater is a chemical solution, a mixture of a solvent (H2O) and ionic solutes, resulting in a solution of different chemical properties than liquid H2O.
 
Cypress said:
You might want to repeat high school chemistry if you didn't know liquid water was molecular liquid H2O



Seawater is not liquid molecular H2O.

Chemically speaking, seawater is a chemical solution, a mixture of a solvent (H2O) and ionic solutes, resulting in a solution of different chemical properties than liquid H2O.
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If you were actually chemically sophisticated Perry PhD you would have recognized one actual weakness in my response.

Liquid, molecular H2O always indeed does freeze at 32F or zero C at standard atmospheric conditions.


But the liquid water core of Enceladus isn't at standard atmospheric pressure.

The watery core of that moon clearly exists under some pressure gradient. Pressure has some kind of effect on the phase transitions of water's liquid- solid phase change boundary. I just don't remember exactly what the relationship looks like.


But I didn't mention that because I was answering Nifty's question in the way that normal, everyday people have conversations. There was no need for me to bluster to him about the finer points of chemical thermodynamics. That would have been a jackass thing for me to do.

It was you who spent your entire memorial day in chemical minutiae in a vain effort to prove I am an uninformed idiot.
 
Cypress said:
If you were actually chemically sophisticated Perry PhD you would have recognized one actual weakness in my response.

Liquid, molecular H2O always indeed does freeze at 32F or zero C at standard atmospheric conditions.


But the liquid water core of Enceladus isn't at standard atmospheric pressure.

The watery core of that moon clearly exists under some pressure gradient. Pressure has some kind of effect on the phase transitions of water's liquid- solid phase change boundary. I just don't remember exactly what the relationship looks like.


But I didn't mention that because I was answering Nifty's question in the way that normal, everyday people have conversations. There was no need for me to bluster to him about the finer points of chemical thermodynamics. That would have been a jackass thing for me to do.

It was you who spent your entire memorial day in chemical minutiae in a vain effort to prove I am an uninformed idiot.
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To really small minded humans life is all about polishing their own image instead actually understanding anything about life
 
evince said:
To really small minded humans life is all about polishing their own image instead actually understanding anything about life
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Poor self esteem

One of the first things Perry/Quincunx did when showing up to the board is making an announcement he supposedly has been awarded a PhD in geochemistry
 
Quincunx said:
Don't lie about people. I never said I have a PhD in biogeochemistry.

I guess you are OK with liars, I'm not.

Why are you so dishonest?
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No use playing word games, Perry PhD.

One of the first things you announced under your erstwhile Perry screen name was that you had supposedly been awarded a PhD. And I'm almost 100 percent sure you claimed geochemistry, and Dutch Uncle can confirm it. But ever since announcing your glorious PhD you have been very coy at dodging answering any questions about it
 
Cypress said:
No use playing word games, Perry PhD.

One of the first things you announced under your erstwhile Perry screen name was that you had supposedly been awarded a PhD. And I'm almost 100 percent sure you claimed geochemistry, and Dutch Uncle can confirm it. But ever since announcing your glorious PhD you have been very coy at dodging answering any questions about it
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Technical terms have technical meanings. This is where your inability to synthesize information makes you into an intellectual poseur.

Learn what you are talking about before you go talking to people who have more ACTUAL education than you do.

Don't make a claim and then change what you claimed to comport with what you wish you had claimed. Learn the language. or maybe just get a REAL education. Also, do try to be honest once in a while.
 
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Cypress said:
I think one of the best arguments against interstellar travel, besides the violation of physical laws, is the fact we have no confirmations of Seeing any interstellar travelers from other planets
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The distances and time involved are, literally, astronomical.

That doesn't explain the complete lack of evidence of other civilizations through radio astronomy. Zero. Zip. Nada.

The lack of evidence indicates life must be very rare....although I'm also interested in the theory that all intelligent life tends to destroy itself. We're on that path too. Life would continue, but at a lowered technological pace.
 
Cypress said:
But I didn't mention that because I was answering Nifty's question in the way that normal, everyday people have conversations.
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Excellent excuse.

There was no need for me to bluster to him about the finer points of chemical thermodynamics. That would have been a jackass thing for me to do.
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Instead you made a factually incorrect claim and then LIED about knowing the real answer.

You know how I know you lied about frantically Googling it? Because you went directly to the entropic effect. Fuck, you don't even know what that means. You overplayed your hand and tried to sound a lot more intellecshul than you really are.

99.99999% of people are taught about these colligative properties and especially this one by noting that the salt ions interfere with the formation of the ordered ice crystals. That means that 99.9999% of people will mention THAT as opposed to the entropic nature of it. You claim you didn't study chemistry yet you try to talk a big game in a way that virtually NO ONE would describe it unless they went out and hit up Wikipedia super fast or were a chemist by training.

That's where your lack of education shows. You ALWAYS only ever quote other people because you have no knowledge of your own which you have synthesized into something you could talk about.

So you googled. I know it. You know it. You didn't know the first foreign thing about this.

Now you are making a stupid blather about "pure" water (which you didn't say initially...another lie on your part). Indeed life teems in the ocean and you know this. So your initial claim about how Enceladus "couldn't be that cold" was probably going to be wrong from the outset no matter how you spun it. Unless you think all the water on Enceladus is deionized.

You are now jumping through hoops to save your fragile ego. You were wrong, but you aren't even man enough to accept that. That's because you are a poseur. You want everyone to think you are the smartest guy in the room. Which is why you can't discuss even religion without whining when someone so much as questions an assumption.

You are laughable. And I've seen how your game works now.

Ya know, I don't even mind you had to google it. That's cool. Except YOU are a hypocrite who excoriates others for doing EXACTLY WHAT YOU DID. That makes you a pitiful fuck up.
 
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