I'm with you on this. I can see why this is bugging you. I don't like wasting valuable time chasing ghosts, when the crimes that are real and obvious are right in front of our face.
From Freedom To Fascism
- Thread starter Beefy
- Start date
I'm with you on this. I can see why this is bugging you. I don't like wasting valuable time chasing ghosts, when the crimes that are real and obvious are right in front of our face.
Litmus
Verified User
damn, darla, you're so willfully gullable and sheeplike. "Our leaders would never lie to us or do bad stuff, they're good people." What are you, five?
Litmus
Verified User
Ghosts. Yeah, the federal reserve and IRS are just ghosts. You're fully 100% idiot compliant.
So you think that bush and cheney planned, and committed the 9/11 attacks?
Litmus
Verified User
Knew about, planned, allowed, not committed. It's entirely possible. Leaders let things happen or even plan them to motivate the people.
Are you a bushbot now?
I'm positive that the IRS and Federals Reserver are real though, real criminal.
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It's entirely possible they knew something big was going to happen, there is evidence pointing to that. It's entirely possible they actively let it happen. It's also possible they really are that incompetent. Though I lean towards, they actively let it happen.
It is not reasonable to state with certainity that you know for a fact that Bush and Cheney planned and perpetuated the attacks, because you saw the beams in the WTC and concluded they could not have been brought down by merely planes. It is not reasonable to watch a sloppy "documentary" like loose change, which has multiple problems, misrepresentations, assumptions, and leaps, and state "that's fact".
I haven't watched this film yet that is being discussed on this thread, so I can't give a judgement either way on it.
Litmus
Verified User
I didn't state with certainty or said I know for a fact, so get off your long winded bullshit-self and watch the relevant media.
You called me a bushbot because I was saying that you can't state it with certainty. But, I'm glad to see you've come around to my way of thinking on this.
Litmus
Verified User
I haven't. You're still afraid of exposing "the group" to unorthodox ideas. Whatever "your group" is. I say watch the video, let them decide. Don't be a nazi about it.
The very fact that AHZ is pimping this movie, makes me almost certain I don't need to see it.
Look, Bin Laden brought down the WTC. Even the mere suggestion that Bush planted explosives makes one look like a wild eyed loon. I have no doubt that bush ignored warnings and was massively incompetent. I believe that Bush/Cheney/Rove took a tragedy like 9/11, and used it for political gain. That's as far as evidence and logic can possibly take me at this point.
As for this movie, I checked the reviews on it. Reportedly, about half the movie is an anti-tax rant. That the income tax is unconstitutional, and that the income tax was a massive conspiracy in conjuction with the Federal Reserve and IRS, to rule america. Sorry. I've seen this rant before. And I don't believe for a second, that for the last 80 years, there was some concious and deliberate effort by a cabal of NWO-types, who constructed the income tax, IRS, and Federal reserve for this purpose. And somehow, for 80 years it was kept secret.
Is it possible that business interests, and their bought and paid for politicians exploit the system? Yes. Get money out of politics (public financing) and 90% of the influence of business interests is dissapated.
Now, evidently the guy that made the movie has a lot of good points on the patriot act, and REAL ID. But, there are plenty of other worthwhile sources I can go to about that, rather than having to sit through your standard Libertarian anti-tax rant.
Look, Bin Laden brought down the WTC. Even the mere suggestion that Bush planted explosives makes one look like a wild eyed loon. I have no doubt that bush ignored warnings and was massively incompetent. I believe that Bush/Cheney/Rove took a tragedy like 9/11, and used it for political gain. That's as far as evidence and logic can possibly take me at this point.
As for this movie, I checked the reviews on it. Reportedly, about half the movie is an anti-tax rant. That the income tax is unconstitutional, and that the income tax was a massive conspiracy in conjuction with the Federal Reserve and IRS, to rule america. Sorry. I've seen this rant before. And I don't believe for a second, that for the last 80 years, there was some concious and deliberate effort by a cabal of NWO-types, who constructed the income tax, IRS, and Federal reserve for this purpose. And somehow, for 80 years it was kept secret.
Is it possible that business interests, and their bought and paid for politicians exploit the system? Yes. Get money out of politics (public financing) and 90% of the influence of business interests is dissapated.
Now, evidently the guy that made the movie has a lot of good points on the patriot act, and REAL ID. But, there are plenty of other worthwhile sources I can go to about that, rather than having to sit through your standard Libertarian anti-tax rant.
Watch the movie. It is at least interesting. Crap, I watched Farenheit 9/11 and by all the reviews I read it was an anti-Bush rant that was leading...The very fact that AHZ is pimping this movie, makes me almost certain I don't need to see it.
Look, Bin Laden brought down the WTC. Even the mere suggestion that Bush planted explosives makes one look like a wild eyed loon. I have no doubt that bush ignored warnings and was massively incompetent. I believe that Bush/Cheney/Rove took a tragedy like 9/11, and used it for political gain. That's as far as evidence and logic can possibly take me at this point.
As for this movie, I checked the reviews on it. Reportedly, about half the movie is an anti-tax rant. That the income tax is unconstitutional, and that the income tax was a massive conspiracy in conjuction with the Federal Reserve and IRS, to rule america. Sorry. I've seen this rant before. And I don't believe for a second, that for the last 80 years, there was some concious and deliberate effort by a cabal of NWO-types, who constructed the income tax, IRS, and Federal reserve for this purpose. And somehow, for 80 years it was kept secret.
Is it possible that business interests, and their bought and paid for politicians exploit the system? Yes. Get money out of politics (public financing) and 90% of the influence of business interests is dissapated.
Now, evidently the guy that made the movie has a lot of good points on the patriot act, and REAL ID. But, there are plenty of other worthwhile sources I can go to about that, rather than having to sit through your standard Libertarian anti-tax rant.
Russo made a good and very informative flick, IMO.
Everyone in my group has watched the video and come to their own conclusion.
I don't think MM ever said anything truly crazy - like bush blew up the WTC.
MM's movies are pretty much fact-based. You can argue whether he ignores certain facts in favor of others.
MM's speculations are within the realm of logic and possibility - not crazy shit: that we might have gone to war for oil. That seems like a logical speculation to me.
The very fact that AHZ is pimping this movie, makes me almost certain I don't need to see it.
Look, Bin Laden brought down the WTC. Even the mere suggestion that Bush planted explosives makes one look like a wild eyed loon. I have no doubt that bush ignored warnings and was massively incompetent. I believe that Bush/Cheney/Rove took a tragedy like 9/11, and used it for political gain. That's as far as evidence and logic can possibly take me at this point.
As for this movie, I checked the reviews on it. Reportedly, about half the movie is an anti-tax rant. That the income tax is unconstitutional, and that the income tax was a massive conspiracy in conjuction with the Federal Reserve and IRS, to rule america. Sorry. I've seen this rant before. And I don't believe for a second, that for the last 80 years, there was some concious and deliberate effort by a cabal of NWO-types, who constructed the income tax, IRS, and Federal reserve for this purpose. And somehow, for 80 years it was kept secret.
Is it possible that business interests, and their bought and paid for politicians exploit the system? Yes. Get money out of politics (public financing) and 90% of the influence of business interests is dissapated.
Now, evidently the guy that made the movie has a lot of good points on the patriot act, and REAL ID. But, there are plenty of other worthwhile sources I can go to about that, rather than having to sit through your standard Libertarian anti-tax rant.
I think I have this movie on dvd. Someone gave it to me at a rally. I have to check tonight,but the way you are describing it, this has to be the same film. I have not watched it yet.
Exactly right about looking like wild-eyed nuts. That is what I feel this girl is doing to NY Codepink, and that is what the struggle is about. I will even go a step further than you, and say that I really do strongly lean towards it was a bit more than incompetence, that they let it happen, but they did not know exactly what it was going to be, just that a big hit was coming down here.
I personally doubt they were involved in it or planned it. But, and this is the most important thing, it doesnt' matter. Say they did. No one will ever prove it, it will be argued abotu for generations, like the grassy knoll. And it is irrelevent to Codepink, which is a grass roots organization of women agitating for peace. We do not need to be looked at as nuts by the general population. That is exactly what they would love for all anti-war people to do; start screaming that 9/11 was an inside job, and thus make yourself, and your message, completely irrelevant.
The movie may cover "crazy sh*t" but it isn't itself in that vein. It begins by attempting to prove the IRS right then continues.
Much like another who didn't watch Moore's movie really has no idea what it was by reading, oh a blog, you don't know what this one is like by reading a review. I watched it based on Beefy's endorsement, I was surprised by the movie.
Well said.
I think that CP gal you're talking about, actually hurts rather than helps the cause. Credibility is key. We have to focus on real crimes, facts, and evidence.
I don't doubt for a second that Bush ignored the warnings at best, or he sort of vaguely knew an attack was coming and did little to stop it, at worst. And of course, they exploited it when it happened.
As far as him either knowing the specific date, and location (WTC), or even suggesting he planted the bombs - I ain't going there. Until somebody shows me the credible and convincing evidence.
Bin Laden did the actual attack. It looks crazy to suggest otherwise.
DigitalDave
Sexy Beast!
Guys.. Title 26... I am with you guys as a fellow libertarian telling you to just pay your taxes
Title 26 of the U.S. Code defines taxable income and says we have to pay taxes. I asked the same question before and found my answer, unfortunatly.I know. You would not believe the shit I have had to listen to, about the WTC being packed with bombs, and the fbi coming in and out of there in the weeks before the "bombing". It's crazy stuff, and I feel the same way, show me some proof, or just go away.
I might give is a shot Damo. I think the Patriot Act and the REAL ID act are very important.
I just can't sit through too much of your standard Libertarian anti-tax rant. Been there, done that
