"Grrr I hate it so much when loans are forgiven"

[LV426]

Disagreed on your conclusion due to a complete lack of facts.

What are you talking about?

If cops are arresting people at a rate 3000x that they arrest themselves, something is definitely off.

 

[LV426]

Disagreed for the same reason as agreeing to wisdom. You may or may not grow wise, LV, but to say you will certainly become arrogant is not necessarily so.

Where did I say everyone was certain to become arrogant as they get older?

All I said was that age begets arrogance, which it absolutely does for some -probably most- and you're proving it right on this thread.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

What are you talking about?

If cops are arresting people at a rate 3000x that they arrest themselves, something is definitely off.

I disagree with your logic. You see evil where there is good. That's a severe distortion of reality. It's exactly the same distortion the Pedo Don fans are screaming about regarding the FBI and the visit to Mar-a-Lago.

It's a fundamental view of life: Are most people good or bad? Do you trust a person, within reasonable limits, until they prove untrustworthy, or do you see all people as untrustworthy and they must earn your trust?

In the case of the police, results count. Still waiting for your solutions, LV. If you don't have any, that's okay. Just tell me so, please.

 

[LV426]

You hate cops. I get it. What is your solution, LV? Defund the police? Fine. Before doing so, I recommend this plan: Tell all the cops to take a mandatory two-weeks off (I suggest around Christmas and New Year's) and see what happens.

So funny thing...when cops did that here in Atlanta in 2020, nothing changed.

They all faked a sick out, and it ended up being the worst thing that happened for them because crime didn't increase when they decided to act like petulant children.

But the moment they did return to work, the crime rate started spiking.

Proving my theory all but true...that crime follows police, not the other way around.

I believe that not only do cops commit crimes, but that their very presence invites a criminal response challenge, and the more over the top they get, the more over the top the crime gets.

 

[LV426]

If you are right, crime will go down, but I assert crime will go up for what I consider to be obvious reasons.

The problem you always have Dutch is that you think your conventional wisdom is the objective standard, and you glide on that entitlement and privilege.

When police faked their sick out here in Atlanta, the crime rate didn't go up.

But when they ended their sick out, the crime rate DID go up.

So what that can go to prove is that a police presence invites a criminal challenge, not the other way around.

There will absolutely be less crime if there are less cops.

We know after nearly 30 years of giving cops everything they want, they still can't manage to control crime or themselves.

So why are we wasting that money?

Of those 3,800/100,000 citizens arrested, how many were arrested for seriously violent or criminal charges? How many were arrested for petty crimes or drug possession?

And of the few, few cops who are ever arrested, how many were arrested for seriously violent or criminal charges, and how many were arrested for petty crimes or drug possession?

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Where did I say everyone was certain to become arrogant as they get older?

All I said was that age begets arrogance, which it absolutely does for some -probably most- and you're proving it right on this thread.

QED. It's always good when you answer your own questions, isn't it?

Why did you change the phrasing? You did it for a reason and I'm curious what it is because I'm curious about you.

Age does not beget wisdom, Dutch.

Age does beget arrogance, though.

Yes, it seems you are, indeed, declaring that old people are arrogant. Why not say ""Age does not beget arrogance" unless you meant that it does? Are you also an ageist, among other things, LV?

 

[LV426]

Why did you change the phrasing?

Because I had already said it one way, and it didn't sink in with you.

Yes, it seems you are, indeed, declaring that old people are arrogant. Why not say ""Age does not beget arrogance" unless you meant that it does?

I said "age begets arrogance" and "age does beget arrogance"...so just like Flash, you're trying to make this a debate about semantics because you can't debate the subject.

But you're tangling with someone who knows English composition, so it's a losing fight you're waging.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

So funny thing...when cops did that here in Atlanta in 2020, nothing changed.

They all faked a sick out, and it ended up being the worst thing that happened for them because crime didn't increase when they decided to act like petulant children.

But the moment they did return to work, the crime rate started spiking.

Proving my theory all but true...that crime follows police, not the other way around.

I believe that not only do cops commit crimes, but that their very presence invites a criminal response challenge, and the more over the top they get, the more over the top the crime gets.

Sooo....you want to ban cops. Awesome! I like the idea of "laboratories of Democracy". Please let me know when you convince your city to ban cops so that the rest of America can learn from your experiment. TIA

 

[LV426]

Sooo....you want to ban cops.

Just local police and sheriffs departments.

I think there is value in state police and troopers, federal marshals, federal agents, and the FBI.

But I don't think my local Atlanta PD is worth the billions we give it, and I don't think any police department is worth the billions they get for only doing a half-assed job.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

The problem you always have Dutch is that you think your conventional wisdom is the objective standard, and you glide on that entitlement and privilege....

Indeed, a major difference between us. LOL

When did conventional wisdom become entitlement and privilege? Yes, I'm 100% guilty of believing that my 16 years of higher education, life experience of 21 years in our nation's military and 28 as an airline pilot have given me an "entitled and privilege(d)" objective standard regarding conventional wisdom.

 

[LV426]

Please let me know when you convince your city to ban cops so that the rest of America can learn from your experiment

I mean your cop friends already did the experiment here and it proved them useless.

Cops faked a sick out, crime dropped, and then they rushed to end the sick out when they saw there wasn't an increase in crime.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Just local police and sheriffs departments.

I think there is value in state police and troopers, federal marshals, federal agents, and the FBI.

But I don't think my local Atlanta PD is worth the billions we give it, and I don't think any police department is worth the billions they get for only doing a half-assed job.

Interesting. So you only want State Troopers and Federal marshals patrolling your streets? No local government?

 

[LV426]

When did conventional wisdom become entitlement and privilege?

When you presented it as conventional wisdom.

Yes, I'm 100% guilty of believing that my 16 years of higher education, life experience of 21 years in our nation's military and 28 as an airline pilot have given me an "entitled and privilege(d)" objective standard regarding conventional wisdom.

Actually, all that proves you are subjective, not objective.

Anecdotes are always filtered through a prism of bias and are unreliable forms of evidence to use in a debate.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I mean your cop friends already did the experiment here and it proved them useless.

Cops faked a sick out, crime dropped, and then they rushed to end the sick out when they saw there wasn't an increase in crime.

A day? Two weeks minimum for the experiment.

I'd have to take a closer view of the ATL data, but any change in local behavior has at least one cause.

If the cop walkout was the cause, then another view is that, by breaking the law themselves, they gave all the assholes in Atlanta permission to do the same. You know, like Trump is doing with attacking the Capitol, declaring White Supremacy and stealing whatever he likes from the White House...to the applause of his JPP fans. Is that sane, in your opinion, LV?

 

[LV426]

Interesting. So you only want State Troopers and Federal marshals patrolling your streets? No local government?

Well there wouldn't be as many on the streets as there are with local and sheriff departments today, and those federal and state agencies largely aren't patrollers, they're investigators.

The GBI is a totally legitimate state agency that doesn't abuse its power because the powers given to it are investigative, not patrol or seeking out crime to patrol.

You understand the difference between patrolling and investigating, right?

Patrolling doesn't solve crime, it doesn't stop crime, and I argue it invites crime.

 

[LV426]

A day? Two weeks minimum for the experiment.

The sick out lasted a few weeks because charges were brought against two cops for killing Rayshard Brooks.

So in a perfect example of what I've been saying, the Atlanta police sought to cause harm to the community out of revenge for two of their officers being charged with literally killing an unarmed person.

So you had police refusing to do their "job", thinking that we'll be desperate for them to protect us...but what ended up happening was they discovered we don't really need their protection, so they all came back and that's when the crime rate started growing again.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

The sick out lasted a few weeks because charges were brought against two cops for killing Rayshard Brooks.

So in a perfect example of what I've been saying, the Atlanta police sought to cause harm to the community out of revenge for two of their officers literally killing an unarmed person.

So you had police refusing to do their "job", thinking that we'll be desperate for them to protect us...but what ended up happening was they discovered we don't really need their protection, so they all came back and that's when the crime rate started growing again.

Awesome. Why don't the citizens of Atlanta vote to ban the police? Are they fucking stupid or crazy?

 

[LV426]

I'd have to take a closer view of the ATL data, but any change in local behavior has at least one cause.

Don't you think it's weird how cops justify their existence by not doing their jobs?

And then when they don't do their jobs, things actually get better?

Why do you think that is? Could it be that police cause crime?

 

[LV426]

If the cop walkout was the cause, then another view is that, by breaking the law themselves, they gave all the assholes in Atlanta permission to do the same.

Crime dropped when cops walked out.

That's what happened here...the cops thought that they were the only thing standing between us and anarchy, and then had to return to work with their tails between their legs because everyone figured out that we don't really need them for anything.

And funny...the moment they returned to work, suddenly there was a CRIME WAVE!!!!

 

[Dutch Uncle]

When you presented it as conventional wisdom.

Actually, all that proves you are subjective, not objective.

Anecdotes are always filtered through a prism of bias and are unreliable forms of evidence to use in a debate.

Yes, conventional wisdom is that most people are good....and for good reason: It's true. https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/11/health/nonviolence-good-wisdom-project

We are hard-wired for goodness. It’s easier to recognize this fact when you think of children. Without mitigating factors, their innate goodness would not erode with age. But goodness is not the sole virtue of the young. The vast majority of people, when faced with simple, clear ethical choices, choose good over bad and even good over neutral.

Imagine a stranger’s baby is about to fall off a chair next to you. You would try to catch it, right? Intuition tells you that you can count on nearly everyone else to try to catch that baby, too. Empathy is an evolutionary gift, an instinct that extends in concentric circles from the self, to loved ones, to community to countries and, for the enlightened, all of humanity – a concept dating to the ancient Greek Stoic Hierocles. Everyone is capable of widening one’s circle.

Our innate sense of good over bad is where we all start. Despite thousands of years of war, rape, homicide and other violence, we are all still, fundamentally, baby catchers.