APP - Harkin says bribes are just "small stuff"

apple0154 said:
Of course they're working towards that. It has been proven the world over it is a superior arrangement and people pay according to what taxes they can pay.

It's no different than the military or Police protecting the citizens. People are not protected according to the amount they pay in taxes. They are all protected.
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And then they get to die on the government waiting list. Glorious!
 
AssHatZombie said:
you mean 900$ hammers? or whatever it was?

monopolies work when it's government? That's fucking insane.
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I suppose we could always have a private company look after defense. Maybe an Enron type operation. Should a war break out they could always ask the aggressor if they could postpone the attack until they restructured financially.

What do you think about that idea?
 
Good Luck said:
That the democratic party would go to the lengths they have to pass a piece of shit like this is amazing. We're not talking about the usual pork and earmarks found in the normal legislation process here. It's way above and beyond, and anyone with a genuine brain can see that plainly.

But what is even more disgusting is the blind lemming brain dead partisan hacks that are supporting it. Do you fucking assholes truly believe a piece of legislation that is going to make the rest of the states pick up Nebraska's tab for healthcare in order to secure the vote of a Nebraska senator is a GOOD bill? Get your heads out of the fucking donkey's ass for once in your pathetic little lemming like lives. It is a piece of shit bill in the first place that does nothing more for health care than give a few hundred billion dollars in profits to the very insurance companies you have been denigrating the last couple decades as a source of our health care problems. How the FUCK can you brain dead pustules not see that? And then to resort to outright bribery to get it passed - and it's perfectly fine with you jack asses because it is the jackass party doing it.

I'd say "may you assholes get what you deserve", but the problem is you fuck ups and your entire fucking party are taking the rest of us down the gutter with you. Not even Bush's administration was this outright in-your-face corrupt. And that is saying a lot.
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Too bad you didn't say "a lot" when Dubya was President, your righteous outrage might mean something other than the standard Rightie Hypocricy at this point.

Oh I know, here's where you tell me you were the most outspoken, vociferous conservtive who never gave Dyba an inch let alone anything like the Democrats give Obama, but you know what?

NO ONE BELIEVES YOU.

Maybe idf you had mustered a couple of stinging " blind lemming brain dead partisan hacks" or "Get your heads out of the fucking donkey's ass for once in your pathetic little lemming like lives"...then maybe we'd buy the meadowmuffins you are peddling.

Sorry though, now it's too little, too late.
 
Damocles said:
Absolutely ridiculous. When rejoicing in the "first step towards single payer (read government provided) health care" you sit here and tell me that nobody is working towards that?

Just stunningly and absolutely hacktacularly unfortunate.
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Zoinks...it's no wonder you can lecture me on posting, seeing as how you provide litterally SCADS on information to back up your putdowns.

I am humbled...
 
apple0154 said:
Yes, ignorance is dangerous.

Surely you know how to Google. Google countries with universal plans and check the costs. See how many have lower costs.

Try it. You might like it.
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You noticed it too?

Ignorance is bliss, maybe, but I still stay away from bravo lest his ignorance rub off on me.
 
apple0154 said:
I suppose we could always have a private company look after defense. Maybe an Enron type operation. Should a war break out they could always ask the aggressor if they could postpone the attack until they restructured financially.

What do you think about that idea?
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We do that. They're called defense contractors. It's a fairly corrupt process and there is an obvious risk of creating a self perpetuating monster, especially when you throw fiat currency into the mix. This is why the government should handle as few functions as feasibly possible.
 
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ZappasGuitar said:
Too bad you didn't say "a lot" when Dubya was President, your righteous outrage might mean something other than the standard Rightie Hypocricy at this point.

Oh I know, here's where you tell me you were the most outspoken, vociferous conservtive who never gave Dyba an inch let alone anything like the Democrats give Obama, but you know what?

NO ONE BELIEVES YOU.

Maybe idf you had mustered a couple of stinging " blind lemming brain dead partisan hacks" or "Get your heads out of the fucking donkey's ass for once in your pathetic little lemming like lives"...then maybe we'd buy the meadowmuffins you are peddling.

Sorry though, now it's too little, too late.
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Since I was not involved with this board while Bush was still president, you haven't a foggy clue what I said about that son of a bitch and the puss headed morons that supported whatever he did.

I do not give one fucking whit whether you believe it or not. You have your head up the ass of the donkey so far you will never believe anything except what the donkey tells you to believe. So go find your political masters for some more mindless talking points. No one bothers to listen to you either. We can get your opinions straight from the DNC.
 
apple0154 said:
Unfortunately, it's pretty much come to that. It took 20 years, from 1940s to the '60s, to get medicare for the old folks. From what I've seen they like their medicare.

It's over 40 years later. It's stretches credulity to suggest anything is going to happen by sitting down and chatting about it. I'm sure even Job would have run out of patience. :)
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How can anything brought about by illicit means be a good thing? Since when did liberals subscribe to "the end justifies the means" philosophy? That is the philosophy of totalitarianism.

And then the liberals actually BLAME others for the way this piece of shit doesn't even come close to what they want. The democrats have a large majority if the HOR, and a filibuster proof majority in the Senate, and somehow it is the obstructionists' fault they cannot write a piece of legislation the way they want it.

So how about coming out from behind the lies and admit your donkey masters don't actually give a shit any more than the republicans you despise? This piece of legislation still leaves millions of people without coverage. It does nothing what so ever to address the continued rapid rise in health care costs - which is why health care is an issue in the first place. What it does do is spend hundreds of billions of dollars doing, essentially, nothing except screwing even worse that which is already screwed.

And then they pass it through a series of quite literal bribes, the acceptance of which does not speak well either of the party nor the recipients.

Thankfully the mindless donkey worshipers are not the majority. Go ahead and trumpet this crap as "doing good". Free thinking people are abandoning your movement in droves, as is witnessed by Obama having the worst rating of a first year president in history. Keep up the crap, and he plus the democratic majority in congress will be the shortest lived "mandate of the people" in history.
 
Good Luck said:
How can anything brought about by illicit means be a good thing? Since when did liberals subscribe to "the end justifies the means" philosophy? That is the philosophy of totalitarianism..
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No, it is the work of common sense. Once again, there is not one country that has reverted to the "pay or suffer" system. What is there about that statement you don't understand?

Universal medical plans have been proven in dozens of countries, some for over half a century. Various combinations of politics and population and land mass have been tested and proven viable. There is no credible opposition. Dissension has become a farce.

And then the liberals actually BLAME others for the way this piece of shit doesn't even come close to what they want. The democrats have a large majority if the HOR, and a filibuster proof majority in the Senate, and somehow it is the obstructionists' fault they cannot write a piece of legislation the way they want it.
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Not every last Democrat is an honorable individual. One would have hoped a few Republicans would have taken their place and voted for the legislation but such is life.

Regardless, they are out of the starting gate. The march towards medical coverage has begun.

So how about coming out from behind the lies and admit your donkey masters don't actually give a shit any more than the republicans you despise? This piece of legislation still leaves millions of people without coverage. It does nothing what so ever to address the continued rapid rise in health care costs - which is why health care is an issue in the first place. What it does do is spend hundreds of billions of dollars doing, essentially, nothing except screwing even worse that which is already screwed.

And then they pass it through a series of quite literal bribes, the acceptance of which does not speak well either of the party nor the recipients.

Thankfully the mindless donkey worshipers are not the majority. Go ahead and trumpet this crap as "doing good". Free thinking people are abandoning your movement in droves, as is witnessed by Obama having the worst rating of a first year president in history. Keep up the crap, and he plus the democratic majority in congress will be the shortest lived "mandate of the people" in history.
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I'll reserve judgment at the end of four years.
 
apple0154 said:
No, it is the work of common sense. Once again, there is not one country that has reverted to the "pay or suffer" system. What is there about that statement you don't understand?

Socialism has not worked anywhere its been tryed...what about that fact is so difficult for you...??

Universal medical plans have been proven in dozens of countries, some for over half a century. Various combinations of politics and population and land mass have been tested and proven viable. There is no credible opposition. Dissension has become a farce.

Instead of 80+% getting superior healthcare, now 100% of us will get less than the very best care....and as the tax money dries up,(as it surly will) the care will only get worse...

Not every last Democrat is an honorable individual. One would have hoped a few Republicans would have taken their place and voted for the legislation but such is life.

If Republicans vote for socialist and marxist programs, they will no longer be Reupblicans, they will have become Democrats

Regardless, they are out of the starting gate. The march towards medical coverage has begun.


I'll reserve judgment at the end of four years.
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bravo said:
No, it is the work of common sense. Once again, there is not one country that has reverted to the "pay or suffer" system. What is there about that statement you don't understand?

Socialism has not worked anywhere its been tryed...what about that fact is so difficult for you...??


Considering universal medical plans have been in existence for over half a century and not one country has reverted to the old system you're left with two choices. Pick one.
1. Universal medical is not socialism.
2. Universal medical is socialism and socialism works.

Universal medical plans have been proven in dozens of countries, some for over half a century. Various combinations of politics and population and land mass have been tested and proven viable. There is no credible opposition. Dissension has become a farce.

Instead of 80+% getting superior healthcare, now 100% of us will get less than the very best care....and as the tax money dries up,(as it surly will) the care will only get worse...


Again, that's contrary to facts. Universal plans cost, on average, half of what the US currently spends, per capita, on medical services. Consider the impact on the average universal plan if the budget was increased 100% to the level currently spent on medical in the US.

Not every last Democrat is an honorable individual. One would have hoped a few Republicans would have taken their place and voted for the legislation but such is life.

If Republicans vote for socialist and marxist programs, they will no longer be Reupblicans, they will have become Democrats

They will have become logical assuming they know the difference.

Regardless, they are out of the starting gate. The march towards medical coverage has begun.


I'll reserve judgment at the end of four years..
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AssHatZombie said:
Apple. You're not factoring in that the quality of care is overall shitty. With waitlists, rationing, and treatment denied. Please join actual reality when thinking.
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The quality of health care isn't shitty. Any universal plan is superior to a private plan because the universal plan has to cover illnesses contracted by a vast number of people from different cultures and ways-of-life. By virtue of it being universal it has to cover more illnesses.

If a person contracts cancer under a universal plan there is no cap on the cost of medical care which many private plans have. There are no individual exclusions. Either the entire population is covered or no one is covered. Considering a universal plan covers the entire population what are the chances of contracting a unique illness that would not be covered?

Wait lists and rationing has a lot to do with people demanding their local hospital provide the same treatment options as a hospital in a big city. Even under a "pay or suffer" system they wouldn't have the options as there wouldn't be enough patients to make it a viable enterprise.

Some machines cost hundreds of thousands of dollars. No business enterprise is going to buy such a machine if there are not sufficient "customers". The same applies to universal plans. The government is not going to supply every hospital with a machine when a person can drive to the nearest large hospital and receive treatment.

When people say they had to wait or couldn't receive treatment in a timely manner what they're saying is they refused to go to a different treatment center. They demanded the same services as one would get in a big city while living in a small town.
 
apple0154 said:
The quality of health care isn't shitty. Any universal plan is superior to a private plan because the universal plan has to cover illnesses contracted by a vast number of people from different cultures and ways-of-life. By virtue of it being universal it has to cover more illnesses.

If a person contracts cancer under a universal plan there is no cap on the cost of medical care which many private plans have. There are no individual exclusions. Either the entire population is covered or no one is covered. Considering a universal plan covers the entire population what are the chances of contracting a unique illness that would not be covered?

Wait lists and rationing has a lot to do with people demanding their local hospital provide the same treatment options as a hospital in a big city. Even under a "pay or suffer" system they wouldn't have the options as there wouldn't be enough patients to make it a viable enterprise.

Some machines cost hundreds of thousands of dollars. No business enterprise is going to buy such a machine if there are not sufficient "customers". The same applies to universal plans. The government is not going to supply every hospital with a machine when a person can drive to the nearest large hospital and receive treatment.

When people say they had to wait or couldn't receive treatment in a timely manner what they're saying is they refused to go to a different treatment center. They demanded the same services as one would get in a big city while living in a small town.
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With the most expensive things it becomes "noone gets covered", as you metnioned. You're beginning to understand.

You can't dismiss the very reality of rationing by calling people lazy.
 
AssHatZombie said:
With the most expensive things it becomes "noone gets covered", as you metnioned. You're beginning to understand.

You can't dismiss the very reality of rationing by calling people lazy.
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They are covered.

I posted a story before about a Canadian guy who had cancer and wanted treatment at the local hospital. Because he lived in a small town he had to drive to a facility that had the machine I previously mentioned. The drive was less than 40 miles each way. Two weekly treatments. Total 160 miles per week.

He ranted to the local papers and TV station demanding the government pay his gas because, as a taxpayer, he was entitled to free medical care. Plus, his wife was available to drive him. It was strictly a matter of money, money for gas.

That is what constituted his claim he was being denied medical treatment.

However, the government did suggest a place he could go. :rofl:.
 
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