Health Care Reform

Mott the Hoople said:
Well no fucking shit Mr. Invincible. How the hell do you think insurance works? Who do you thinks been subsidizing your insurance for years when one of you insuranceless Invincibles gets sick or hurt? Who do you thinks been footing the bill all these years?
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this post is disingenuous, broadly and generally speaking, the youth has never been a drain on the system, and you know it.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
An excellent article that debunks the rightwing of the GOP's attack on the ACA.

Whatever the GOP may thinks, even though a majority of Americans may oppose the ACA, a large majority of Americans support health care reform.

I'm one of those who would poll as being opposed to the ACA on the basis that it does not go far enough. To truly work it must also provide for a single payer system and implement cost controls.

The rightwing of the GOP is mistaken in thinking that 2014 will be a replay of the 2010 elections. The American public spoke clearly in the 2012 election in which Democratic house candidates received over a million more votes than Republican candidates. They are mistaking that from the echo chambers of their politically safe gerrymandered districts that they have broad support to repeal and/or defund the ACA. The fact is that the are divorced from reality and are courting electoral disaster.

I have already heard Democrat partisans and political operatives about current machinations in the house to defund the ACA with the threat of shutting down the Government. They're saying "Sure, go ahead...make my day!"

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/21/opinion/blow-kamikaze-congress.html?ref=todayspaper&_r=0
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It certainly doesn't go far enough but you have to crawl before you can walk. Your best hope is that the added benefits for the ordinary people will be so contagious that they will start to see reality and demand universal health care as is practiced in nearly all modern countries.

The ordinary joe is doing the bidding of the Koch brothers and their ilk and that's the only way the wealthy with a stake in 'for profit' health care can keep the fight going. If those people come to their senses and realize they have been hoodwinked, it will be a landslide for Obamacare and positive change.

Never mind just the American people, this thing with the baggers is the biggest scam pulled on any people and it's strictly for profit and to preserve the status quo of big profits.

It's just amazing that the baggers could be taken in so thoroughly to fight against their obvious best interests!
 
Capgras said:
hmm I don't know I thought insurance worked on risk assessment, not everyone just being forced to buy something.
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I'm sure you're not that dense.

All insurance is about risk pools. Premiums are not tied to one individual's health; risk is spread out across everyone. Doesn't matter if it's car insurance or health insurance, that's how it works. So when my step-daughter - who is 24 - had ecoli poisoning, everyone who has insurance with my company helped pay for her treatment.

And yes, young people get sick, get in accidents, etc. While as people get older they are more likely to have chronic diseases and so yes, older people use medical care more, that doesn't mean young people never use it.

Insurance companies need to have a large enough pool that relatively healthy people are in it; and thus the mandate.

But I know you're not this dense, so I assume you're just being a wanker
 
Capgras said:
i didn't suggest otherwise. I was talking about sedans logic being bad.
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Nothing wrong with my logic, just your comprehension.

You might be assuming Republicans would actually put the good of the country ahead or their own party.

That, of course, is a foolish assumption to make -- I think Eisenhower was building the interstate highway system the last time Republicans put country before party.

My point is pretty simple: if the right wing propaganda about Obamacare is actually true, they are throwing away a golden opportunity to show how bad the Democrats are at making policy.

They can win elections by letting Obamacare fail spectacularly -- but only if it's as bad as they say it is.
 
Capgras said:
this post is disingenuous, broadly and generally speaking, the youth has never been a drain on the system, and you know it.
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Like hell they haven't. It is you who are being disengeous. Everytime one of you invincibles get hirt or sick it's us responsible adults who pay the bill and it drives up cost for everyone else.
 
blackascoal said:
Which makes this all so bizarre, because Obamacare IS Romneycare.

Instead of health care reform, we got Romneycare.
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Agreed, both begin with the assumption that 'insurance' is the answer for all ills, in all circumstances. Real 'reform would have been a public discourse and lots of differing opinions on problems and solutions.
 
seriously beyond my capabilities to decipher -I see both sides of the argument - SP would prolly standarize paperwork -whichh i think is missing with ACA.

But then again we got all these uninsured people -not jut the young - that cannot be good.

I dunno. I'm just going to sit back and watch the trains run on time, or as Max Baucus said "upcoming trainwreck"

I'm dizzy trying to extrapolate much further then this

Seems to be a lot of bugs to be worked out.
 
Mega Milk said:
Better 20% than 90%.
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Really? Then how comes all the industrialized nations who've adopted these type reforms, including single payer systems and cost controls, pay about half of GDP than we do and achieve superior outcomes than we do? Why is that? Care to explain it to me?
 
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blackascoal said:
Which makes this all so bizarre, because Obamacare IS Romneycare.

Instead of health care reform, we got Romneycare.
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Many of the reforms are Republican ideas....and that shows you what the current GOP opposition to the ACA is really about. Not that it matters that these are Republican ideas. Which they are not. All of these reforms implemented by the ACA are hardly nothing new. They are reforms that have been adopted by the rest of the industrialized world 30 to 40 years ago. Republicans are just copying successful reforms implemented by the other industrialized nations. There is nothing revolutionary or new about the ACA. These are reforms tried and proven in other nations.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Really? Then how comes all the industrialized nations who've adopted these type reforms, including single payer systems and cost controls, pay about half of GDP than we do and achieve superior outcomes than we do? Why is that? Care to explain it to me?
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Except we don't have cost controls. We only have purchasing 'controls' in that if you don't buy it, you go to jail.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Really? Then how comes all the industrialized nations who've adopted these type reforms, including single payer systems and cost controls, pay about half of GDP than we do and achieve superior outcomes than we do? Why is that? Care to explain it to me?
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Exactly. Other countries have better health care at a low price than we do. WHY would anyone want to keep our old health care system? Hopefully ACA with its controls and focusing on best outcomes will help; also, having everyone covered by insurance should reduce the amount of "health care by ER".

Is it as good as single payer? no. Is it better than what we had? yes.
 
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