Herd Immunity Proven To Be A Failed Approach To Corona

PoliTalker said:
Brazil:

"Simon Ostrovsky:

The country's top leadership allowed the virus to spread unhindered in the name of the economy and with the belief that so-called herd immunity could end the pandemic.

Marcia Castro:

It was a sequence of mistakes that accumulated and end up with what we're seeing now, many more deaths than we should see and hospitals not about to collapse, but completely collapsed already.

Simon Ostrovsky:

The city of Manaus, deep in the Amazon, was where the health system collapsed first and hardest. It became so overwhelmed that doctors ran out of oxygen, and many COVID patients simply suffocated to death.

According to Jorge Kalil, the head of clinical immunology and allergy at the University of Sao Paulo School of Medicine, it became a breeding ground for a new highly infectious variant called P.1.

Jorge Kalil:

In Manaus, for instance, we had many people that had already the disease, so we had partial immunity. When you have partial immunity, you can select mutants that have a better adherence to the receptor or can escape from the immune response.

Simon Ostrovsky:

The idea that herd immunity could provide a population with protection was disproven disastrously here."

Bolsonaro faces criminal investigation, possible impeachment over COVID response in Brazil

"Brazil formalized a criminal investigation last week into President Jair Bolsonaro’s response to the pandemic. It could lead to his impeachment. The country just passed 400,000 total fatalities so far, with no significant slowdown in sight. With support from the Sloan Foundation, special correspondent Simon Ostrovsky and producer Charles Lyons bring us the first of two reports.

Brazil's Supreme Court formalized a criminal investigation last week into President Jair Bolsonaro's handling of the pandemic. It could eventually lead to his impeachment.

At the same time, Brazil's death toll from COVID-19 continues to spiral out of control. The country just passed 400,000 fatalities since the beginning of the pandemic, with no significant slowdown in sight."
Click to expand...

^Garbage OP by garbage poster.
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello Darth,



It is a fact that this brand new novel virus which began in late 2019 is now out of control, with over 3 million humans dead, and humans do not know when or if it will ever be under control. So far, we have had some limited success, but the virus is proving to be an elusive creature to eliminate. As soon as pockets of humans develop limited immunity, the virus mutates and attacks the same group all over again in it's new form.

The race is on. It's vaccination vs mutation.

Our efforts are greatly weakened by pockets of humans who seem to actually be on the side of the virus, doing everything in their power to fight FOR the virus and AGAINST all other humans, and in some cases themselves.

I'd like to see a website devoted to listing all the humans who were loudly outspoken, calling the whole thing a hoax, and then died of corona. We've certainly seen examples of this. Herman Cain mocked mask-wearing. He's not doing that any more. He died of corona.

It is encouraging to muse that eventually, the disease may mutate enough times to crack the natural immunity of those humans who refuse to cooperate with the rest of society. That would be a tragic way to eliminate those arguments, but it may sadly come to that.

Herman Cain foolishly thought that money was more important than life itself. On May 19th, 2020, he was clamoring for fully reopening the economy, despite the rise in corona numbers:

"“There is a political element in here and all of the Democrats don’t want us to open up and they keep claiming we might be opening up too soon. Look at the data! We’re not opening up too soon,” Cain said. “They would love to be able to campaign on a totally collapsed economy and blame President Trump and his administration.” He added that certain Republican governors were “reaching that proper balance” in reopening schedules. “We are only about a week and a half into some of this measured type of reopening that states like Florida, and Georgia, and Texas are doing,” he said. “So far, according to [Health and Human Services] Secretary Alex [Azar] they are doing OK and it has not spiked in terms of hospitalizations. That is a good sign.”"

At that time, only 1420 people had died. Boy, was he ever on the wrong side of things!

Herman Cain, Conservative Culture Warrior Who Opposed Mask Mandates, Dies of COVID-19
Click to expand...

^ Garbage.
 
Micawber said:
This is the basic problem the dumb party has, and by extension, so do we all. Brainless Democrat hating recalcitrance.

West VA republican ex nurse or eminent Dr. Fauci, 1st in Cornell medical school, immunologist for 40 years and chief medical advisor to several US Presidents. hmmm. So hard to decide.

LMAO at you.:palm:
Click to expand...

^ Garbage.
 
Walt said:
Clearly, we are not close to natural herd immunity. Clearly, Brazil and India are not close to natural herd immunity. Your attempt to "logic" away facts on the ground does not work.

The question we should use our logic to work out is why has natural herd immunity failed so far. We can add in the fact that people are getting Covid-19 a second time, and even the same strain a second time. That would suggest that natural immunity, while it does exist, fades quickly.

If we are wrong, and natural herd immunity suddenly snaps into place, then you will be proven correct. That seems far fetched right now, so it is better to work out why herd immunity is failing.
Click to expand...

You keep claiming herd immunity ‘failed’ when we still don’t know what the herd immunity number is. We know no such thing.

Another thing we don’t know is why local epidemics are seemingly self-limiting. A year ago the virus was virusing with impunity in NYC but then it receded, which seems to suggest Farr’s Law can come into play on the local level.

The alternative contention is that mitigation was responsible for it. An unproven hypothesis that seems to hold up in some instances but not in others.

WV had its peak *after* the mask mandate was put in place and then receded during the mask mandate. Seems to suggest masking had only marginal effect on the outcome. And that or similar things happened in many places across the country. TX dropped its mandate and—according to the hypothesis, TX should be a basket case by now.

But it’s not.

There’s a lot of things about the CCP virus that doesn’t square with Fauci or the CDC’s proclamations and recommendations. Some of these mitigation schemes have had easily questionable effect on the virus but easily provable disastrous effects on the economy, social structure, education, substance abuse—the list goes on and on.
 
PoliTalker said:
Brazil:

"Simon Ostrovsky:

The country's top leadership allowed the virus to spread unhindered in the name of the economy and with the belief that so-called herd immunity could end the pandemic.

Marcia Castro:

It was a sequence of mistakes that accumulated and end up with what we're seeing now, many more deaths than we should see and hospitals not about to collapse, but completely collapsed already.

Simon Ostrovsky:

The city of Manaus, deep in the Amazon, was where the health system collapsed first and hardest. It became so overwhelmed that doctors ran out of oxygen, and many COVID patients simply suffocated to death.

According to Jorge Kalil, the head of clinical immunology and allergy at the University of Sao Paulo School of Medicine, it became a breeding ground for a new highly infectious variant called P.1.

Jorge Kalil:

In Manaus, for instance, we had many people that had already the disease, so we had partial immunity. When you have partial immunity, you can select mutants that have a better adherence to the receptor or can escape from the immune response.

Simon Ostrovsky:

The idea that herd immunity could provide a population with protection was disproven disastrously here."

Bolsonaro faces criminal investigation, possible impeachment over COVID response in Brazil

"Brazil formalized a criminal investigation last week into President Jair Bolsonaro’s response to the pandemic. It could lead to his impeachment. The country just passed 400,000 total fatalities so far, with no significant slowdown in sight. With support from the Sloan Foundation, special correspondent Simon Ostrovsky and producer Charles Lyons bring us the first of two reports.

Brazil's Supreme Court formalized a criminal investigation last week into President Jair Bolsonaro's handling of the pandemic. It could eventually lead to his impeachment.

At the same time, Brazil's death toll from COVID-19 continues to spiral out of control. The country just passed 400,000 fatalities since the beginning of the pandemic, with no significant slowdown in sight."
Click to expand...

fake science.

they just want an excuse to inject more poisons.
 
Hello Darth,

Darth Omar said:
You keep claiming herd immunity ‘failed’ when we still don’t know what the herd immunity number is. We know no such thing.

Another thing we don’t know is why local epidemics are seemingly self-limiting. A year ago the virus was virusing with impunity in NYC but then it receded, which seems to suggest Farr’s Law can come into play on the local level.

The alternative contention is that mitigation was responsible for it. An unproven hypothesis that seems to hold up in some instances but not in others.

WV had its peak *after* the mask mandate was put in place and then receded during the mask mandate. Seems to suggest masking had only marginal effect on the outcome. And that or similar things happened in many places across the country. TX dropped its mandate and—according to the hypothesis, TX should be a basket case by now.

But it’s not.

There’s a lot of things about the CCP virus that doesn’t square with Fauci or the CDC’s proclamations and recommendations. Some of these mitigation schemes have had easily questionable effect on the virus but easily provable disastrous effects on the economy, social structure, education, substance abuse—the list goes on and on.
Click to expand...

You look at the government and expect perfection. When you don't see it, you claim that is rationale for not believing a single word from government. Maybe you should be more realistic and not set the bar so high that it validates your presupposed prejudice.
 
Darth Omar said:
You keep claiming herd immunity ‘failed’ when we still don’t know what the herd immunity number is. We know no such thing.
Click to expand...

So far herd immunity has failed. Maybe in the future, herd immunity will start working, but we are not seeing evidence of that.

Darth Omar said:
WV had its peak *after* the mask mandate was put in place and then receded during the mask mandate. Seems to suggest masking had only marginal effect on the outcome.
Click to expand...

That suggests just the opposite. If masks reduce the spread, we would expect the peak to happen after the mask mandate, and the numbers to keep reducing while the mask mandate was still in effect. If people stopped using masks, you would expect the spread to slowly start increasing, much like we have seen in Florida.
 
Walt said:
Given the evidence, I think you are wrong.
Click to expand...
rofl@you asking for a cite!

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/antibodies-t-cells-protect-against-sars-cov-2
the researchers tested whether immune cells called T cells play a role in long-term immunity to the virus. They used a drug to deplete T cells in five monkeys that had recovered from SARS-CoV-2, then re-exposed them to the virus. All had evidence of reinfection in the nose, and one had virus in its lungs. In contrast, monkeys with active T cells successfully fought off reinfection.

Antibodies initially produced by the body after infection had started to drop during this period. This finding suggests that T cells are needed for long-term protection from the virus.
 
anatta said:
rofl@you asking for a cite!

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/antibodies-t-cells-protect-against-sars-cov-2
the researchers tested whether immune cells called T cells play a role in long-term immunity to the virus. They used a drug to deplete T cells in five monkeys that had recovered from SARS-CoV-2, then re-exposed them to the virus. All had evidence of reinfection in the nose, and one had virus in its lungs. In contrast, monkeys with active T cells successfully fought off reinfection.

Antibodies initially produced by the body after infection had started to drop during this period. This finding suggests that T cells are needed for long-term protection from the virus.
Click to expand...

Wow, you really think you just proved that T cells will provide herd immunity any time soon?:palm:
 
anatta said:
gawd almighty. your terms are all mixed up .herd immunity is the level of exposure needed in the population
if you are asking can T-cells help provide those numbers, then yes

Immune T Cells May Offer Lasting Protection Against COVID-19
https://directorsblog.nih.gov/2020/...ay-offer-lasting-protection-against-covid-19/
Click to expand...

Oh wow, we have been promoted to "may". I guess we should base the future of our country on something that "may" work "somewhat". Hard work is for schmucks when we have "may" on our side. :palm:
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello Darth,



And after it mutates into something with different characteristics, then what?

Where are your guarantees written? Did the virus sign off to this? And if it fails to comply with your edicts, do we take it to court? How do you do that?
Click to expand...

every vaccine makes the virus stronger
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello Darth,



And after it mutates into something with different characteristics, then what?

Where are your guarantees written? Did the virus sign off to this? And if it fails to comply with your edicts, do we take it to court? How do you do that?
Click to expand...

every vaccine makes the virus stronger and more adaptable
 
Walt said:
Oh wow, we have been promoted to "may". I guess we should base the future of our country on something that "may" work "somewhat". Hard work is for schmucks when we have "may" on our side. :palm:
Click to expand...

how are the vaccines working out einstein? fauci is making this shit up as he goes along. are you really this fucking stupid?
 
Yakuda said:
how are the vaccines working out einstein? fauci is making this shit up as he goes along. are you really this fucking stupid?
Click to expand...

The vaccine definitely reduces deaths, and might reduce transmission. We have no way of knowing if it will lead to herd immunity. Given that natural immunity probably fades rather quickly, there is a good chance that vaccine immunity does too. That would be very bad.

Fauci admits he does not have all the answers, unlike you and your claims to know everything. Covid-19 is a novel virus, so we do not have the answers about it. What we do know is that the hoped for solutions have not worked.
 
Walt said:
The vaccine definitely reduces deaths, and might reduce transmission. We have no way of knowing if it will lead to herd immunity. Given that natural immunity probably fades rather quickly, there is a good chance that vaccine immunity does too. That would be very bad.

Fauci admits he does not have all the answers, unlike you and your claims to know everything. Covid-19 is a novel virus, so we do not have the answers about it. What we do know is that the hoped for solutions have not worked.
Click to expand...

So we are going on his hunches and near as I can figure we are a year and a half in and we are nowhere. ive had covid twice now and recovered in less than 5 days each time. big fucking deal.
 
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