History is for suckers.

[T. A. Gardner]

1) others on here disagree.

2) just because the NSDAP is gone.
Does not mean Nazism is dead.

3) Nazism was fascism.
Fascism IS right wing.

'Fascism is a far-right, authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement,...'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

Of course you won't agree.
Because you NEVER (that I have seen) agree with ANYTHING that does not support your views.

That is why debating with you is UTTERLY pointless.


We are done here.
Bye now.

Seems you forgot about Spanish Fascism, Italian Fascism, Chilean Fascism... Among others.

You really need to find a better source than Wiki for defining what fascism is.

 

[Walt]

Somebody else did a thread in this section mentioning history. So I thought I would too. By telling you that "history" is for suckers. There is a truism out there that says, "History is written by the victors." As in the victors of some war. But there is another truism about war. It says, "In war, truth is the first casualty." No doubt for the winning side, it remains a casualty. Also, there were a couple notable people who had truthful things to say about history. One was Napoleon. He said, "History is a set of lies agreed upon." Another was Tolstoy. He said, "History would be a wonderful thing. If it were only true."

I agree that history is usually written by the victors, but not always. This is a thought I have been playing around with in my mind. I can go into almost any hotel in America, and find a book about iron age Jewish history. It may not be completely accurate, but the Bible is a rather detailed description of iron age Jewish history. Jews were not victorious.

Jews cared about history, wrote about history, and survived. For the most part, the victors did not do all three. Modern Egyptians cannot read hieroglyphics, modern Iraqis cannot read cuneiform, and neither care particularly much about pre-Muslim religious practices. Even their own knowledge about their ancestors is filtered through Jewish historians.

Then there is the pseudo-history of the Lost Cause. For about 100 years, most of the writing about the Civil War was by the losers who wanted to reframe the war as some sort of heroic lost cause, and not as a defense of the vile institution of slavery. The Daughters of the Confederacy invested heavily into teaching children about the Lost Cause. Had the civil rights movement not come along, that would still be established history. But, certainly not the history as written by the actual victors.

Reletor, you make good, interesting points, and I am sorry if I have muddied the issue. Welcome to the forum, and I hope you keep posting.

 

[Walt]

Physics is not based on mathematics.

Mathematics is the language of physics. Much of mathematics was developed to understand physics. The reason that calculus exists is to explain physics. So it would be fair to say that mathematics is based on physics, and that physics is based on mathematics.

 

[Walt]

I'm not saying they aren't educated. They are educated enough to be useful tools. But beyond that, they are just as brainwashed as everybody else. And being more invested in "the system," they are more likely to be more articulate in the defense of their bullshit. Also, I am reminded of what somebody named Upton Sinclair. He once said, "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it."

The Western Liberal Education System is based on debate. Before someone says they are a conservative, and therefore are against the Western Liberal Education, the word "liberal" is using a different definition there. The Greeks had the "liberal arts"(free people skills), and the "servile arts"(not free people skills). Free Greeks were supposed to participate in their governments. They had many different types of governments from democracies to monarchies, but all had some level of politics involved. Therefore debate was important to all.

To teach debate, you need students from different points of view. Diversity in education is not a new invention, but actually part of Western education from the beginning. You also have a system that keeps reinventing itself through debate.

You would think that education based on meritocracy would be better, but it has failed compared to our western system. The Arabs, Chinese, Indians, etc. had education based on meritocracy, where there were tests to pick the best students, and then later tests to pick the best teachers from those students. At first you get the best of the best, but over time you get the best at taking those tests. You get teachers who are highly invested into the old knowledge. Some of the oldest universities in the world still teach science from a thousand years ago, because that is what is on the test.

In the west, many, if not most, professors would have PHDs. They have extended the knowledge of humanity in some way, and have defended their thesis in debate.

Or so the system is supposed to work. I am not saying it is always perfect, but it is a darn good system, and has done us well.

 

[Hawkeye10]

The Western Liberal Education System is based on debate. Before someone says they are a conservative, and therefore are against the Western Liberal Education, the word "liberal" is using a different definition there. The Greeks had the "liberal arts"(free people skills), and the "servile arts"(not free people skills). Free Greeks were supposed to participate in their governments. They had many different types of governments from democracies to monarchies, but all had some level of politics involved. Therefore debate was important to all.

To teach debate, you need students from different points of view. Diversity in education is not a new invention, but actually part of Western education from the beginning. You also have a system that keeps reinventing itself through debate.

You would think that education based on meritocracy would be better, but it has failed compared to our western system. The Arabs, Chinese, Indians, etc. had education based on meritocracy, where there were tests to pick the best students, and then later tests to pick the best teachers from those students. At first you get the best of the best, but over time you get the best at taking those tests. You get teachers who are highly invested into the old knowledge. Some of the oldest universities in the world still teach science from a thousand years ago, because that is what is on the test.

In the west, many, if not most, professors would have PHDs. They have extended the knowledge of humanity in some way, and have defended their thesis in debate.

Or so the system is supposed to work. I am not saying it is always perfect, but it is a darn good system, and has done us well.

That is well over, as you should know...appear to not know.

Did not read the rest.....why bother?

 

[Walt]

People are so narcissistic now

There is this one poster here that declared a car accident that killed a bunch of people he did not know was all a betrayal of him personally. That is one of the most narcissistic things I have read in a while.

 

[Hawkeye10]

There is this one poster here that declared a car accident that killed a bunch of people he did not know was all a betrayal of him personally. That is one of the most narcissistic things I have read in a while.

Do you take money directly from the CCP?

 

[Walt]

The higher the grade, the more articulate the bullshit.

Being articulate in writing, and its equivalent in reading are important skills, not to be downplayed. Without people who have those abilities, our system would collapse.

 

[Hawkeye10]

Being articulate in writing, and its equivalent in reading are important skills, not to be downplayed. Without people who have those abilities, our system would collapse.

It has collapsed.

The West is dying.

 

[Walt]

THAT's certainly true! I have seen a lot of illiterate people, or people that claim to be able to do a job and can't. The most arrogant and incompetent (I won't hire them!) are those from Ivy schools.

When I hire someone, I am doing so for them to do a job at the agreed upon wage. I test them for competency before hiring them. Haven't found a competent twit yet from an Ivy school (and they do apply!).

What field of endeavor are you claiming to be in where Ivy League graduates are begging to be hired by you, but you can hire high school dropouts instead? The only one I can think of off the top of my head is acting, and you are not JJ Abrams.

 

[Cypress]

Good God, what would the rightwing do without the women's studies to whine about.

Women's studies majors are so rare, I don't think I even met one person majoring in it the entire time I was in college.

Because you apparently never went to college.

In 2014-2015, approximately 1.9 million bachelor’s degrees were awarded.

Just 1,333 degrees were in women’s studies, the most common “useless major” bogeyman that grumpy conservatives write about.

If you round it to three significant figures, that is statistically close to zero percent of all degrees awarded are for women's studies majors.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...all-those-unemployable-womens-studies-majors/

 

[Cypress]

It is.

But they do anyway. The result?

Windows and all of it's problems. Most Microsoft programmers couldn't code their way out of a wet paper bag.
NASA, which cannot launch anything but the simplest of rockets now. They've even had to hitch a ride with the Russians to get to the ISS!
The US State department is government. Mostly bureaucrats to push paper. I guess you call that being 'professional'.

It's only because you can't think for yourself and just believe whatever rightwing pundits order you to believe, that you hold the impression all liberal arts majors are working at Taco Bell.

My mother was a sociology major with a career in social work and teaching.

Two of my college friends were history majors. One teaches at the US Naval Academy, one is a technical writer for a consulting firm.

My aunt majored in Slavic studies and had a career at CBC's Russian service.

You obviously never went to college, and what you think you know about college just comes from listening to Tucker Carlson and Fox Noise.

 

[Into the Night]

1) others on here disagree.

Too bad.

2) just because the NSDAP is gone.
Does not mean Nazism is dead.

It is dead.

3) Nazism was fascism.

Correct.

Fascism IS right wing.

WRONG. Fascism is one form of socialism. You have obviously NEVER TRANSLATED what the acronym 'NAZI' even means, and have never Marx's writings.

'Fascism is a far-right, authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement,...'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

Wikipedia is AGAIN utterly wrong. You cannot use it as a reference with me. False authority fallacy.

Of course you won't agree.
Because you NEVER (that I have seen) agree with ANYTHING that does not support your views.

The meaning of fascism is not up for debate.

That is why debating with you is UTTERLY pointless.

The meaning of fascism is not up for debate. You cannot change the language that way!

 

[Into the Night]

Seems you forgot about Spanish Fascism, Italian Fascism, Chilean Fascism... Among others.

You really need to find a better source than Wiki for defining what fascism is.

That he does.
Wikipedia is not much of a source for anything. It's articles are too often incomplete, wrong, or just plain biased. Wikipedia does not define any word except 'Wikipedia'.

 

[Into the Night]

I agree that history is usually written by the victors, but not always. This is a thought I have been playing around with in my mind. I can go into almost any hotel in America, and find a book about iron age Jewish history. It may not be completely accurate, but the Bible is a rather detailed description of iron age Jewish history. Jews were not victorious.

Jews cared about history, wrote about history, and survived. For the most part, the victors did not do all three. Modern Egyptians cannot read hieroglyphics, modern Iraqis cannot read cuneiform, and neither care particularly much about pre-Muslim religious practices. Even their own knowledge about their ancestors is filtered through Jewish historians.

Then there is the pseudo-history of the Lost Cause. For about 100 years, most of the writing about the Civil War was by the losers who wanted to reframe the war as some sort of heroic lost cause, and not as a defense of the vile institution of slavery. The Daughters of the Confederacy invested heavily into teaching children about the Lost Cause. Had the civil rights movement not come along, that would still be established history. But, certainly not the history as written by the actual victors.

Reletor, you make good, interesting points, and I am sorry if I have muddied the issue. Welcome to the forum, and I hope you keep posting.

Bigotry. More people than Jews wrote about events surrounding them.

 

[McRocket]

Too bad.

Even righties disagree with you.
Look around and you will see which ones.


What a guy.
He starts a multi-quote post.
Even though he knows I don't do them.

So, obviously, he is trying to avoid a discussion by doing what he KNOWS I will not partake in.



Bye now.

 

[Into the Night]

Mathematics is the language of physics.

Mathematics is not a language. Neither is physics. Physics is not mathematics.

Much of mathematics was developed to understand physics.

WRONG. Mathematics was developed from a set of axioms and extended through proofs.

The reason that calculus exists is to explain physics.

WRONG. The reason that calculus exists is to handle slopes on curves and to better calculate areas of other than rectangles and triangles.

So it would be fair to say that mathematics is based on physics, and that physics is based on mathematics.

Physics is part of science. It is a set of falsifiable theories. It is not mathematics. Science is an open functional system.
Mathematics is not falsifiable theories. It is a set of axioms extended through proofs. Mathematics is a closed functional system. It has three major Domains, each defined by a slightly different set of axioms.

You are confusing the transcription of a theory of science into an equation with the equation itself.

 

[Into the Night]

The Western Liberal Education System is based on debate. Before someone says they are a conservative, and therefore are against the Western Liberal Education, the word "liberal" is using a different definition there. The Greeks had the "liberal arts"(free people skills), and the "servile arts"(not free people skills). Free Greeks were supposed to participate in their governments. They had many different types of governments from democracies to monarchies, but all had some level of politics involved. Therefore debate was important to all.

To teach debate, you need students from different points of view. Diversity in education is not a new invention, but actually part of Western education from the beginning. You also have a system that keeps reinventing itself through debate.

You would think that education based on meritocracy would be better, but it has failed compared to our western system. The Arabs, Chinese, Indians, etc. had education based on meritocracy, where there were tests to pick the best students, and then later tests to pick the best teachers from those students. At first you get the best of the best, but over time you get the best at taking those tests. You get teachers who are highly invested into the old knowledge. Some of the oldest universities in the world still teach science from a thousand years ago, because that is what is on the test.

In the west, many, if not most, professors would have PHDs. They have extended the knowledge of humanity in some way, and have defended their thesis in debate.

Or so the system is supposed to work. I am not saying it is always perfect, but it is a darn good system, and has done us well.

Yet it was abandoned in the States.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

That he does.
Wikipedia is not much of a source for anything. It's articles are too often incomplete, wrong, or just plain biased. Wikipedia does not define any word except 'Wikipedia'.

Wiki is a good place to start, but you have to go elsewhere to really get anything more than the basic details Wiki provides.

 

[Into the Night]

Being articulate in writing, and its equivalent in reading are important skills, not to be downplayed. Without people who have those abilities, our system would collapse.

A fair point. Too bad schools today aren't teaching reading or writing.