How do you determine who is illegal?

Teflon Don said:
Who is saying they shouldn't get due process?

You have to prove you are a citizen for many things. You have to show ID for many things. For some reason you marxists are against people providing proof showing who they are.

You have no problem with our country being invaded?

I mean how many oranges can you possibly eat? Can't your kids go work in those orange groves for spending money? Builds character
Click to expand...
You do not have to prove you are a citizen unless they have reasonable suspicion you are guilty of a crime.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Again, and I will repeat this. Not having ID on you is not, even when you’re driving, is not probable cause for you to prove your citizenship status to any local law enforcement.

And it’s not about removing criminals. It also goes without saying that the overwhelming majority of the times it’s done based on racial profiling. I have experienced that myself, or rather my wife has, because she is a naturalized citizen and she is not Caucasian.

We were pulled over in a DUI checkpoint. I was driving and my wife was a passenger. The police wanted to see her ID. Since she wasn’t driving I asked the police officer what his probable cause was for asking her for her ID? He went ballistic on me and started making threats and then told me that since she was obviously a Latina he had probable cause to ask her for her ID. (She isn’t a Latina. She’s a Filipina). I told her not to show her ID and requested a supervisor. The officer still continued to threaten the both of us with arrest but did call for a supervisor. I told the police officer that a persons citizenship ship status was out of his jurisdiction and that basing probable cause on racial profiling was unlawful. When the Supervisor appeared he asked the officer what the problem was and told him his side. When he asked me what was going on I said the officer was asking my wife for her ID for proof of citizenship and was basing probable cause based on her race. The Supervisor promptly said. You’re right. You can be on your way.

And that is where this bullshit is leading. Harassment of both legal residents and naturalized citizens. Maybe you missed how Trump demonized legal Haitian residents down the road from me? Maybe you missed that Trump intends now to go after naturalized citizens and not just Illegal immigrants. So don’t give me this bullshit that legal immigrants are not being demonized.

Besides that what you’re suggesting is treating the symptom and not the problem. It won’t work. It will just lead to a bunch of innocent legal residents and citizens being harassed by law enforcement based on their race or ethnicity and that is already happening which I predicted four years ago is where this demonization of immigrants would lead to. Your suggestion would have no impact on illegal immigration.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure what state you live in but in Texas it is a misdemeanor to drive without a valid driver's license on your person. And it is also against the law to fail to give your correct name and date of birth when asked to buy the police. If you have a warrant at the time the penalty is increased. In Texas even if you are a passenger if a LEO asks to see your ID you MUST show him one.
 
Teflon Don said:
Oh please do explain it to us. I am sure there is some fantastical point you think you are about to make.

As I have said repeatedly there are ways to make them self deport.

1) zero benefits for non citizens. None. Nothing.
2) fine every employer who hires an illegal $10,000 per day per illegal

Problem solved
Click to expand...


I like the way you think, TD.
 
This bears repeating ... again, for the dim-witted, IMO:

U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) determines citizenship status through a variety of methods and sources. Here's how they typically proceed:

ICE requires individuals to provide proof of citizenship. Acceptable documents include passports, voter ID cards, birth certificates, or naturalization certificates. If someone claims to be a U.S. citizen but cannot immediately prove it with such documentation, they might be detained until their status can be verified.

During encounters, ICE officers might interview individuals to gather information about their citizenship or immigration status. This can involve questions about place of birth, family background, and immigration history. If there's a claim of U.S. citizenship, the burden of proof generally falls on the individual to demonstrate they are not an alien, although legally, ICE must establish probable cause that someone is not a U.S. citizen before pursuing further action.

ICE has access to various databases, including those from state departments of motor vehicles (DMVs) through networks like Nlets, and criminal justice databases like the National Crime Information Center (NCIC). These databases help in cross-referencing the information provided by individuals against records that might indicate citizenship or immigration status. However, these databases are not always 100% accurate, which can lead to errors in determining citizenship.

When someone is arrested by local or state law enforcement, ICE might place an immigration detainer if there's a suspicion of illegal presence. This involves further investigation into the individual's citizenship or immigration status, often leading to interviews in custody. If there's evidence suggesting U.S. citizenship, it should be investigated further, but instances of U.S. citizens being detained due to database errors or miscommunications have been documented.

@Grok

Brad could've answered his own question quickly and easily, IN MERE SECONDS, the same way I did.

But he still hasn't

Guess why.
 
ExpressLane said:
I'm not sure what state you live in but in Texas it is a misdemeanor to drive without a valid driver's license on your person. And it is also against the law to fail to give your correct name and date of birth when asked to buy the police. If you have a warrant at the time the penalty is increased. In Texas even if you are a passenger if a LEO asks to see your ID you MUST show him one.
Click to expand...
Texas does not require a passenger to have ID simply for being a passenger.
 
TOP said:
"Here are just a few of the steps that should be taken on January 20, 2025, as soon as Donald Trump is inaugurated:
Click to expand...
I hate to be a stick in the mud, but some of the items on the list are totally illegal and others are only there for inappropriate reasons.

TOP said:
All work permits unlawfully issued by DHS to inadmissible illegal aliens should be terminated, and that includes any DACA beneficiaries.
Click to expand...
DACA entered legally. Once they were approved to be here, they had "entered legally," regardless of anything that happened prior. It is very brownshirt to deny anyone the right to work to subsist, especially if said individual could otherwise open a business and become a multi-millionaire.

TOP said:
Banking regulators, including Treasury, the FDIC, the Federal Reserve and the NCUA, should require all banks and credit unions under their jurisdiction to require any individual opening a bank account to provide proof of citizenship or lawful presence in the U.S., such as a permanent resident alien.

To the extent the president has power over the Federal Reserve system and the FDIC through his appointments, he should ensure that every appointee agrees to impose the same requirement on banks receiving benefits from the system or the FDIC. Financial regulators should ensure that aliens who are unlawfully in the U.S. cannot open bank accounts.

The same rule should be applied to banks for all wire transfers made by those banks for their customers, as well as any other financial entities over which the federal government has jurisdiction. For foreign investors and others who are not present in the U.S., these rules would not apply and would not restrict their ability to invest and hold brokerage or other accounts in American banks.
Click to expand...
We have already illegaly conscripted banks into law enforcement and into spying for the Intelligence community, and to violate We the People's right to privacy on the front end as a service to law enforcement who can't legitimately violate Our rights themselves. Now you want banks to take the next step and actually become the Deep State to whom we all must answer by being the determinants of who is recognized as a citizen. How long will it be before banks decide who gets to own a firearm and what constitutes "hate speech."

Go the other way. No business, banks included, should be required to report anything about their customers that isn't anybody else's business.

Also, non-citizens having bank accounts is not a problem we need addressed. The above restrictions are merely punitive measures based on HATRED. Are you seriously thinking about denying someone who is accused by the government the ability to make a money transfer in order to pay a lawyer to represent him? Why don't we also prohibit anyone accused of being illegal from operating a cell phone, from using the internet, from driving a vehicle, from walking in the park, from shopping at WalMart, and from catching a movie? ... or are you getting to those?

TOP said:
The IRS should not provide tax refunds to aliens unlawfully present in the U.S.
Click to expand...
This is theft. The government does not get to steal just because it is the government. How could you propose such a thing?

TOP said:
that should help deter many other employers from engaging in such behavior, drying up the ability of illegal aliens to work and earn a living.
Click to expand...
This bothers me greatly. Here you specify that your intent is not to prevent citizens from losing jobs to illegals, but rather that you simply relish the idea of preventing someone from being able to earn a living.

I can support other items on your list, but not the above.
 
Jarod said:
You do not have to prove you are a citizen unless they have reasonable suspicion you are guilty of a crime.
Click to expand...
I we have reasonable suspicion that they are here illegally then we have all we need. It will be ok. You can pick your own oranges
 
Jarod said:
Biden deported a lot of people.... I think your last sentence is untrue.
Click to expand...
As a percentage of border crossing encounters, estimated illegal entries into the US, releases of illegals into the US to await a hearing, Biden has deported the smallest percentage since WW 2 standing today at less than 10%.

So, while his number of deportations is slightly higher than say, during the first Trump term, as a percentage of encounters he's deported next to nothing.

At the same time, depending on who's figures you want to use, the population of illegals in the US has increased somewhere between 50 and 100% over the last four years. That is, there were an estimated 10 to 15 million illegals in the US when Biden took office. Now there's between 15 and 30 million. I'd say on average, Biden has come close to doubling the population of illegals in the US in just 4 years and that represents the largest number of illegal entries per year in US history.
 
Jarod said:
Is it a crime to be here illegally?
Click to expand...
Yes, it is a crime. A first illegal entry is a misdemeanor, a repeat within 10 years after being deported is a felony. In some cases, a first entry can become a felony such as when you are arrested for another crime like say, muling drugs into the US.

It is also a crime to gain employment in the US while here illegally. It is illegal to gain or use a false ID of any sort and another to use it to gain something like employment.

www.law.cornell.edu

8 U.S. Code § 1325 - Improper entry by alien

www.law.cornell.edu www.law.cornell.edu

www.law.cornell.edu

8 U.S. Code § 1326 - Reentry of removed aliens

www.law.cornell.edu www.law.cornell.edu

www.law.cornell.edu

18 U.S. Code § 1028 - Fraud and related activity in connection with identification documents, authentication features, and information

www.law.cornell.edu www.law.cornell.edu

www.law.cornell.edu

8 U.S. Code § 1324a - Unlawful employment of aliens

www.law.cornell.edu www.law.cornell.edu
 
Into the Night said:
Even worse, to use your simile, is not only refusing to respond to bank robberies, but actively protect bank robbers from the feds.

It is the same with those that willingly violate immigration law. Every single one of these officials and businesses should be prosecuted under the fullest extent of the law.
Click to expand...
Agreed. But the simplest method to force compliance at the state and local level is for the federal government to withhold funding to the state or locality that isn't cooperating until they do in full.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top