If Christianity is true, why is there so much evil in the world?

PostmodernProphet said:
is that really what Episcopalian atheists believe the Bible teaches?........that isn't your blind guess........its your blind choice.......the Bible I am familiar with teaches that God created everything, people fucked it up and God sacrificed for us to fix it......
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Exodus begins with slaughter.. The birth of Jesus starts with slaughter.. Noah's Ark is about slaughter.. so is Sodom and Gomorrah... Joshua's vast million man armies were instructed to slaughter.

What did God sacrifice?
 
kudzu said:
You sure are assuming a lot.
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I am not assuming anything.

What do you think I am assuming?

I know the Bible fairly well.. I also think it was written by men..
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You said, "God is very complex... Good and merciful and then ruthlessly cruel and evil." That involves blind guesses that there is a god...and that the Bible explains what the god is like."

I thanked you for sharing those blind guesses.

So I am not sure what you are saying with the sentence I just quoted.

The blood sacrifice thing is very pagan even back to Azazel.
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Whatever.

The god Jesus worshiped...is a blood lust god...a god that needs blood sacrifice to be propitiated. That is all I am saying.
 
Frank Apisa said:
I am not assuming anything.

What do you think I am assuming?



You said, "God is very complex... Good and merciful and then ruthlessly cruel and evil." That involves blind guesses that there is a god...and that the Bible explains what the god is like."

I thanked you for sharing those blind guesses.

So I am not sure what you are saying with the sentence I just quoted.



Whatever.

The god Jesus worshiped...is a blood lust god...a god that needs blood sacrifice to be propitiated. That is all I am saying.
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The nature of God as presented in Judaism, Christianity and Islam is very complex.. Good and evil, benevolent and bloodthirsty... and that is NOT evidence that there is a god.
 
kudzu said:
The nature of God as presented in Judaism, Christianity and Islam is very complex.. Good and evil, benevolent and bloodthirsty... and that is NOT evidence that there is a god.
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That is not what you said earlier...which was the reason I asked if you were being sarcastic.

In any case, the opening of that sentence quoted (The nature of God as presented...)...indicates that you are blindly guessing there is a "god"...and then you are making other comments about the nature of that god in the Abrahamic religions...and indicating that those things are not evidence there is a god.

You are being so evasive...discussing this with you is like trying to nail Jello to the ceiling.

Perhaps we can break this down into smaller pieces so I can understand what you are attempting to say.

Are you asserting there is at least one "god" involved in the REALITY of existence?

If "yes"...are you saying that your assertion is based on something other than blind guesswork?

If "yes"...what is the "other?"
 
Frank Apisa said:
That is not what you said earlier...which was the reason I asked if you were being sarcastic.

In any case, the opening of that sentence quoted (The nature of God as presented...)...indicates that you are blindly guessing there is a "god"...and then you are making other comments about the nature of that god in the Abrahamic religions...and indicating that those things are not evidence there is a god.

You are being so evasive...discussing this with you is like trying to nail Jello to the ceiling.

Perhaps we can break this down into smaller pieces so I can understand what you are attempting to say.

Are you asserting there is at least one "god" involved in the REALITY of existence?

If "yes"...are you saying that your assertion is based on something other than blind guesswork?

If "yes"...what is the "other?"
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No.. I have NOT asserted there is one god or any god.. There is NO evidence for God.. There are just the Bible stories... and they are based on myths borrowed from neighboring cultures and earlier times.
 
kudzu said:
No.. I have NOT asserted there is one god or any god.. There is NO evidence for God.. There are just the Bible stories... and they are based on myths borrowed from neighboring cultures and earlier times.
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Thank you, Kudzu.

I appreciate your response...and I agree (sorta). There is no unambiguous evidence that there are any gods...there is no unambiguous evidence that there are no gods. Any guesses made in either direction...are essentially blind guesses.

Bible stories are Bible stories. Some (most) seem to be based on other, preceding, stories. Some may be originally contrived as useful to kings...for keeping the sheep in check.
 
kudzu said:
Exodus begins with slaughter.. The birth of Jesus starts with slaughter.. Noah's Ark is about slaughter.. so is Sodom and Gomorrah... Joshua's vast million man armies were instructed to slaughter.

What did God sacrifice?
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first of all, the birth of Jesus did not start with a slaughter, it started with a birth........and that WAS God's sacrifice, you pathetic atheist......
 
kudzu said:
No.. I have NOT asserted there is one god or any god.. There is NO evidence for God.. There are just the Bible stories... and they are based on myths borrowed from neighboring cultures and earlier times.
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true...but given the fact all your assertions are crap, I am comforted.......
 
Frank Apisa said:
You keep talking of "evil" rather than of "sin."

There is a difference.

In any case..."sin" is doing something that offends a god...or in this case, THE god.

And, in this case, we are speaking of GREAT EVIL being perfectly okay with the god (not sin)*...while things NOT EVIL as being very offensive to the god (sin)**.

If such a god exists...somehow the people to whom its message was given...fucked it up considerably.

If that is the case...any information we have on the god is unreliable.



The "god" suggest it does just that!

* Killing people with whom we disagree about gods...and the will of the gods.

** Jerking-off.
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There is no special sin that is okay because it is "less". At least according to the philosophy. This is why "All have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God"... While I would agree that jacking off isn't "evil" per se, it is no less keeping you from the Glory of God than murder would. It is "Evil" by that definition.
 
Damocles said:
There is no special sin that is okay because it is "less". At least according to the philosophy. This is why "All have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God"... While I would agree that jacking off isn't "evil" per se, it is no less keeping you from the Glory of God than murder would. It is "Evil" by that definition.
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I agree that jacking off is "evil" if one defines evil as something that offends the god.

Sin most assuredly is anything that offends the god.

So beating one's meat IS a sin...for people who subscribe to the god of the Bible.

Killing someone for the "greater glory" of that god...is not sinful. It does not offend the god. But it sure as hell is evil.

That is what I am saying, Damocles.

There is a difference between the two.

In any case, it is my opinion that the best guess that can be made about the Abrahamic religions is that they are as mythological as the religions of the ancient Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, and Norse.

If I am wrong...I guess I am in for a very bad eternity.
 
Frank Apisa said:
I agree that jacking off is "evil" if one defines evil as something that offends the god.

Sin most assuredly is anything that offends the god.

So beating one's meat IS a sin...for people who subscribe to the god of the Bible.

Killing someone for the "greater glory" of that god...is not sinful. It does not offend the god. But it sure as hell is evil.

That is what I am saying, Damocles.

There is a difference between the two.

In any case, it is my opinion that the best guess that can be made about the Abrahamic religions is that they are as mythological as the religions of the ancient Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, and Norse.

If I am wrong...I guess I am in for a very bad eternity.
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Not according to the philosophy. You are basically saying, "The conversation is about six, but I want to talk about threeve." The original question was about six, so I'm talking about six. To me this is all just a philosophical discussion "If this is true, why that?" It's all hypothetical.

What I think is true is not part of the discussion.
 
Damocles said:
Not according to the philosophy. You are basically saying, "The conversation is about six, but I want to talk about threeve." The original question was about six, so I'm talking about six. To me this is all just a philosophical discussion "If this is true, why that?" It's all hypothetical.

What I think is true is not part of the discussion.
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I made a comment.

You seemed to indicate you disagreed with it.

I explained myself.

Now you seem to be dismissing it as off-topic or something of that sort. Holy shit. I was discussing SOMETHING YOU SAID...something you initiated. Now you are saying I am off topic. Seems a bit over the top.

But...best to simply say: I guess we have to agree to disagree.
 
Frank Apisa said:
I made a comment.

You seemed to indicate you disagreed with it.

I explained myself.

Now you seem to be dismissing it as off-topic or something of that sort. Holy shit. I was discussing SOMETHING YOU SAID...something you initiated. Now you are saying I am off topic. Seems a bit over the top.

But...best to simply say: I guess we have to agree to disagree.
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To be within the discussion you must first begin with the premise of the conversation. In this case it was "If Christianity is true"... The hypothetical does not include, "This is evil because I don't like it, though Christianity wouldn't see it as evil." it includes what Christianity would see as "evil".

If you want a discussion that includes what other philosophies believe is evil, begin one with a different premise.
 
Frank Apisa said:
I agree that jacking off is "evil" if one defines evil as something that offends the god.

Sin most assuredly is anything that offends the god.

So beating one's meat IS a sin...for people who subscribe to the god of the Bible.

Killing someone for the "greater glory" of that god...is not sinful. It does not offend the god. But it sure as hell is evil.

That is what I am saying, Damocles.

There is a difference between the two.

In any case, it is my opinion that the best guess that can be made about the Abrahamic religions is that they are as mythological as the religions of the ancient Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, and Norse.

If I am wrong...I guess I am in for a very bad eternity.
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Nope.. The sin wasn't masturbation.. The sin was disobedience because the Jews followed Leverite marrage rules.


Levirate marriage is a type of marriage in which the brother of a deceased man is obliged to marry his brother's widow. The term levirate is itself a derivative of the Latin word levir meaning "husband's brother".

God killed Onon because he didn't want to get his brother's widow pregnant.

Genesis 38:9–10.
 
Damocles said:
To be within the discussion you must first begin with the premise of the conversation. In this case it was "If Christianity is true"... The hypothetical does not include, "This is evil because I don't like it, though Christianity wouldn't see it as evil." it includes what Christianity would see as "evil".
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I was responding to something YOU said, Damocles.

Let me say that again: I was responding to something YOU said.

Now...if you are saying that YOU were off topic...and I should not have commented on what YOU said...say that.

I'd love to hear how you word it.

The hypothetical of the OP is an absurdity. Commenting on that should have left this thread totally blank except for the comments of the person who created it.

But...it is standard Internet protocol to use threads like this for slightly tangential purposes...which is what YOU did...and I commented on your slight diversion.
 
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